Beijing-bound MAS plane carrying 239 people missing as of 20 mins ago.

EgyptAir Flight 990's investigation concluded that the First Officer imitated the sequence of events that led to the planes demise whilst the Pilot was away from the cockpit. That incident has always been labeled a suicide far more than it was labeled a terrorist incident. So though I'd like to say that I have a lot of trouble believing that someone who is suicidal would take a easier method of offing themselves than by crashing a passenger jet, emotional unstable people behave unpredictably-- and all bets are off.

reply to post by DrHammondStoat


No worries, glad you saw my post in the end. I tried quoting the posts proper and for some reason it wasn't working. Then I found it didn't show who I was talking to. I had a slight mental Y U DO THIS moment. I have recovered. So apologies for the format of that post but gee willickers, simple tech and me do not mix these days.

I would speculate too that 35kft the transponder was disabled, but, as one can see, I am a technopeasant and rely on the experience and vast knowledge that other ATS users have. I would also like someone to clarify me, that when Vietnamese ATC attempted contact and they heard that "mumbling' before silence, was that just before or after systems were cut? Was this at 35kft?

I am still wading through the initial posts on this thread and came across a list of crew on board I didn't see before. There's a lot of media attention/investigation by authorities on the pilot and co-pilot. But what of the others on this list? img.astroawani.com...

I still have a gut feeling that it is somewere south or south east,
The plane was turning south east when it vanished,
This area of sea was less busy in relation to flights.

ManiShuck

rockflier

Idlewild294
This may or may not have been previously covered, but is it possible for the pilots to depressurize the cabin while disabling the passengers O2 system? In other words, the pilots can place their O2 masks on and simply allow the passengers to go unconscious and die. This could describe why no passengers made calls to their loved ones about being hijacked, and this would give the pilots full control.

Pax masks auto deploy at 13,500 feet cabin altitude. No override in cockpit. O2 is via oxygen generators, not piped from bottles like the pilots' masks.

Could breakers or anything have been sabotaged/removed prior to takeoff? There is an unlocked hatch in the passenger area that crews could access before passengers boarded and access sensitive areas of the plane, including many circuit breakers.

I will have to defer to someone else on this one. I am a retired pilot and we never would go into the hatch areas unless invited by maintenance. Which is to say never.

The 'pilot suicide theory' made sense on the Egyptian Air Flight, but maybe not so much here. With M370, in order to make it fit who ever was suicidal would have to debilitate or kill the other pilot in order to sojourn on for seven to eight hours off course. Pilots complicity to the events is one thing, but labeling it a suicide is far trickier.

Idlewild294

Could breakers or anything have been sabotaged/removed prior to takeoff? There is an unlocked hatch in the passenger area that crews could access before passengers boarded and access sensitive areas of the plane, including many circuit breakers.

rockflier
I will have to defer to someone else on this one. I am a retired pilot and we never would go into the hatch areas unless invited by maintenance. Which is to say never.

Would not the pre flight check out find a problem which would prevent the pilot from allowing the plane to take off.

DrHammondStoat

EnzoD
If the plane was hijacked it's been shot down (which we're not being told about) or the passengers fought back and the struggle with the hijackers caused the plane to crash into the sea.

I just don't buy the idea that the plane landed anywhere. That would require the co-operation of people on the ground, you'd have 250 hostages to deal with (again, why did none of them make a phone call?) and then what would you do with the most searched for plane in the world? It's just too complex to be realistic IMO.

I agree, a hijack attempt could have ended in a crash, as could a suicide. The passengers phones could have been jammed but my biggest doubt over a hijack, is why no demands from those responsible?

Ok, suppose the plane was hijacked by a terrorist group, it landed safely in an undisclosed location, and all the passengers are alive.
They have 200+ people that they may dispatch to different locations across their terror network. That is a lot of assets to use for exchange deals, ransom negociations, or just to spread fears. Think of 200 people in line bound with explosive devices, with crazy guys pointing guns to their heads in front page of every newspapers..scary stuff
I know that involve a lot of logistics to perform, but after all, when you planned and succeeded in stealing a full passenger commercial flight, you have to dream big...

roadgravel

rockflier

ManiShuck

rockflier

Idlewild294
This may or may not have been previously covered, but is it possible for the pilots to depressurize the cabin while disabling the passengers O2 system? In other words, the pilots can place their O2 masks on and simply allow the passengers to go unconscious and die. This could describe why no passengers made calls to their loved ones about being hijacked, and this would give the pilots full control.

Pax masks auto deploy at 13,500 feet cabin altitude. No override in cockpit. O2 is via oxygen generators, not piped from bottles like the pilots' masks.

Could breakers or anything have been sabotaged/removed prior to takeoff? There is an unlocked hatch in the passenger area that crews could access before passengers boarded and access sensitive areas of the plane, including many circuit breakers.

I will have to defer to someone else on this one. I am a retired pilot and we never would go into the hatch areas unless invited by maintenance. Which is to say never.

Would not the pre flight check out find a problem which would prevent the pilot from allowing the plane to take off.

edit on 3/15/2014 by roadgravel because: (no reason given)

The maintenance crew check, yes. The cockpit crew has a checklist that includes a walk around, checking visible outside areas of the aircraft, gears, tires, etc. In the cockpit it specifies checking circuit breakers on all the cockpit panels, switches, etc. The aircraft are so complex that no 2 or 3 people can do a complete check before every flight without many other sets of eyes, each on a specific area of the plane. Also included in the cockpit check is checking the O2 cockpit masks, radio connectivity to the masks, etc.

reply to post by Nyiah


A new shoe bomb warning went out in mid February in the U.S. Right before that was the toothpaste warning during the the Olympics in Sochi.

I for one would like to see the clean shaven Iranians shoes. Photocopying error my butt.

To give you an idea of part of the cockpit breaker system, check this.
www.777project.com...

reply to post by roadgravel


I did load control and my recollection was that maintenance crews checked things out, then had work checked off, then the flight crew would have to check it off on a check list aswel, but as already stated maintenance was purely left to that department.

reply to post by rockflier


Yes, I can understand that. But things like radio, transponder, etc would be noticed, correct. Some of the gear that died/was turned off must have been working, correct.

rockflier

ManiShuck

rockflier

Idlewild294
This may or may not have been previously covered, but is it possible for the pilots to depressurize the cabin while disabling the passengers O2 system? In other words, the pilots can place their O2 masks on and simply allow the passengers to go unconscious and die. This could describe why no passengers made calls to their loved ones about being hijacked, and this would give the pilots full control.

Pax masks auto deploy at 13,500 feet cabin altitude. No override in cockpit. O2 is via oxygen generators, not piped from bottles like the pilots' masks.

Could breakers or anything have been sabotaged/removed prior to takeoff? There is an unlocked hatch in the passenger area that crews could access before passengers boarded and access sensitive areas of the plane, including many circuit breakers.

I will have to defer to someone else on this one. I am a retired pilot and we never would go into the hatch areas unless invited by maintenance. Which is to say never.

Alright, guess I'll hold out for talk about the hatch/area to be brought back up on PPRuNe, where it was mentioned in the early stages of the SAR.

With the speculation of pilots/flight crew possibly being part of the plot, it would be interesting to know if and how easily those generators could be tampered with.

1.) How is a flight plan loaded into a 777(downloaded wire-lessly, entered manually, usb, disk/cd, etc.), and can a new flight plan be loaded in-flight rather quickly?

2.) Do modern day aircraft, more specifically 777's, have electrical outlets for pilots to charge cellphones/laptops in the cockpit?

I ask these because I find it hard to believe this flight path was done simply on visual reference points. So it makes you wonder if he just took a simulated flight plan and loaded it the planes computer, or he used smartphone/laptop to display his flight plan.

roadgravel
reply to post by rockflier

 

Yes, I can understand that. But things like radio, transponder, etc would be noticed, correct. Some of the gear that died/was turned off must have been working, correct.

Absolutely, they are checked functional and online before pulling out of the gate.

ww2.sinaimg.cn...
Passenger #84 is 35 years old according to birth date listed in last column in above image. That would match the 35 year old Uighur man from this article.
allfiredupmedia.com...

rockflier

roadgravel
reply to post by rockflier

 

Yes, I can understand that. But things like radio, transponder, etc would be noticed, correct. Some of the gear that died/was turned off must have been working, correct.

Absolutely, they are checked functional and online before pulling out of the gate.

Even in smaller, economically disadvantaged areas?

I guess I haven't been very lucky as this has been far from my experiences.

OatDelphi


1.) How is a flight plan loaded into a 777(downloaded wire-lessly, entered manually, usb, disk/cd, etc.), and can a new flight plan be loaded in-flight rather quickly?

2.) Do modern day aircraft, more specifically 777's, have electrical outlets for pilots to charge cellphones/laptops in the cockpit?

I ask these because I find it hard to believe this flight path was done simply on visual reference points. So it makes you wonder if he just took a simulated flight plan and loaded it the planes computer, or he used smartphone/laptop to display his flight plan.

Airlines have ALL routes programmed into the flight system (computer), to change routing or flight plans is just a matter of typing in a few commands and the desired flight plan name, i.e. LAS-JFK North route. To enter a unique plan just requires entering waypoints and hitting NAV. It would be possible to have a route planned out on a phone or tablet and then just enter the info into the FMS (flight management system). 757 and 767 did not have charging stations in the cockpit. (Note: We had one female captain who refused to call it a cockpit. She called it the box office.)

watchesfromwall

rockflier

roadgravel
reply to post by rockflier

 

Yes, I can understand that. But things like radio, transponder, etc would be noticed, correct. Some of the gear that died/was turned off must have been working, correct.

Absolutely, they are checked functional and online before pulling out of the gate.

Even in smaller, economically disadvantaged areas?

I guess I haven't been very lucky as this has been far from my experiences.

Everywhere I have flown, this is the standard. Including my terms in Nairobi, Kenya and Dar Es Salaam.

rockflier

roadgravel
reply to post by rockflier

 

Yes, I can understand that. But things like radio, transponder, etc would be noticed, correct. Some of the gear that died/was turned off must have been working, correct.

Absolutely, they are checked functional and online before pulling out of the gate.

Would the ground know about it if things were tampered with before taking off and someone in the cockpit just lied and said "check?"