Oppression of the Soul!!

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by logical7

 

I am just disagreeing to making earth a deity.

Why?
If we worship the earth or the sun, or trees and oxygen, or water and fire, soil and animals, will that "upset the Creator"? Which "created" it for us (if one believes that is the case, of course)?

Why would the Creator care if we revere the gifts given freely?

Being thank full and loving the creation is loving source by proxy. Loving another soul is also loving god by proxy. The highest form of love is oneness where several parts become intertwined on level that they cannot be easily separated again. Pure symbiosis.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

And yes, Earth most definitely is alive.

I agree with you. It was born, and it will eventually die. = life

I think also, the Earth is reaching a breaking point - not that She has "emotions", but a limited amount of "patience" and capacity for self-healing....like a planetary "autoimmune system" which we have invaded.

Happens in human bodies - can happen in celestial bodies as well.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by logical7

 

I am just disagreeing to making earth a deity.

Why?
If we worship the earth or the sun, or trees and oxygen, or water and fire, soil and animals, will that "upset the Creator"? Which "created" it for us (if one believes that is the case, of course)?

Why would the Creator care if we revere the gifts given freely?

Because it makes more sense to thank the one who gave me my food than to thank the food for coming to me!!

Also the word worship is very loosely used.

Anyways I think the topic is being changed so lets get back to the topic.

reply to post by logical7

Hope you are having a great time after your de-addiction !!!

I hope you're having fun in your addiction. People will stoop to the lowest of levels to get a fix. Some have even killed their first born. How far will you go?

logical7
The aggrieved party is the one who does not have the last say...
We have a conscious control on our actions. A tiny moment to consider before acting on a suggestion by our desires.

How do you assume that the soul is in control? If that was true the world would much better.
The soul is also not really distinct from the person. Yes at birth the soul is pure but the person may tarnish it so much that even the soul becomes corrupted.

My "assumption" is supported by many people and ideas around the world where reincarnation is a factor. The basic idea is that the "soul" incarnates on Earth to 'learn lessons." Human consciousness, i.e.: the "person," has very little to do with it. Indeed, many traditions suggest that the ego (the person) is temporary and discarded when its role is finished. From that perspective the person doesn't "tarnish" anything, but exists to serve the intentions of the soul. The idea is convenient for Christianity's guilt trip it attempts to place on everyone.

By all means believe what you want to believe. My assumption is no better or worse than yours. I'm simply showing an alternative explanation.

reply to post by logical7

Anyways I think the topic is being changed so lets get back to the topic.

Okay, yes. We did get a little tangential.

Back to "oppression of the soul".
I was thinking about this. We are here. Our souls are "here" as well. For whatever reasons, we were 'created' as we are. To refuse to participate in the "humanness" that we are given may very well be "oppressing" the soul's growth.

Suppose that the Creator has us here so that we WILL experience the things that only a human can experience. So, if one decides to live in a bubble, sequestered from the foibles and shortcomings of making 'mistakes' or 'learning about consequences' - they could become spiritually 'retarded' (as in - held back from whatever the Creator means for us to learn/experience).

Possible?

reply to post by logical7

Because it makes more sense to thank the one who gave me my food than to thank the food for coming to me!!

Earth IS the one who gives you your food. What do you think growing a crop is? Nurturing what the Earth has provided or given to us freely. Unfortunately for some that's not enough and they must have more more more, all for profit. You can't profit off of something you respect, that's why religion has erased Mother Earth from the God equation.

I'll be quiet now so you can get back on topic.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1

Earth IS the one who gives you your food.

In my opinion, that is true. If people choose to worship not the source (Earth), but the source of the source, it seems to me that is equivalent to "oppressing" the soul - keeping it from being attentive and grateful for everything the "Source" has given us.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by logical7

 

Anyways I think the topic is being changed so lets get back to the topic.

Okay, yes. We did get a little tangential.

Back to "oppression of the soul".
I was thinking about this. We are here. Our souls are "here" as well. For whatever reasons, we were 'created' as we are. To refuse to participate in the "humanness" that we are given may very well be "oppressing" the soul's growth.

Suppose that the Creator has us here so that we WILL experience the things that only a human can experience. So, if one decides to live in a bubble, sequestered from the foibles and shortcomings of making 'mistakes' or 'learning about consequences' - they could become spiritually 'retarded' (as in - held back from whatever the Creator means for us to learn/experience).

Possible?

That depends on why they put themselves in a bubble does it not. A person might become introvert and a seeker of spiritual experience due to experience of disconnection from the human society around the person and create a bubble so that the person can have time thinking on it's own without outside manipulation. Not all souls need to make the mistake to know it should be avoided.

It really depends on what the soul want to experience. For instance if a soul want to experience deep love with only one single soul that life then it is very foolish to seek out promiscuity.

Some people take the hermit route and there are several benefits for choosing the lone road.

reply to post by LittleByLittle

Some people take the hermit route and there are several benefits for choosing the lone road.

Indeed, and trust me, I've thought often about "checking out" and doing just that.

But most "hermits" have endured enough of humanness to make that decision...enough suffering, loss, sorrow - that they feel compelled to 'exit' the social aspects of being human.

Is this not perhaps "shielding" the soul? "Oppressing" it? Like a "Mama bear" will do her cubs, you know.
(Just going back to the OP's premise - I think "oppression" in this context is rather ambiguous.)

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

Some people take the hermit route and there are several benefits for choosing the lone road.

Indeed, and trust me, I've thought often about "checking out" and doing just that.

But most "hermits" have endured enough of humanness to make that decision...enough suffering, loss, sorrow - that they feel compelled to 'exit' the social aspects of being human.

Is this not perhaps "shielding" the soul? "Oppressing" it? Like a "Mama bear" will do her cubs, you know.
(Just going back to the OP's premise - I think "oppression" in this context is rather ambiguous.)

I think in this case it is shielding the soul so that is it has time to grow in peace.

I agree that it is a bit ambiguous. I think on one level this thread is about religious people who do not want be questioned in their beliefs/views even if the fruit of their beliefs are sometimes insane (in context with the golden rule) due to ambiguous or insane texts. We are supposed to tip toe and be very sensitive even if their scripture teaches them that they do not need to tip toe with the people who are not following their scripture.

It is a duality thing where one group feels special because they think they are and the other ones are not since they are not part of the group. Eating from the tree of "perceived knowledge of right and wrong" recreating the original sin of ego duality.

I am not a person that tip toe around things that I perceive as wrong. If religious people think I am unfair in my opinions then prove it by the fruits that the religion really is the real deal that will create true symbiosis.

reply to post by LittleByLittle


Thank you much for this response.

I agree that it is a bit ambiguous. ....
It is a duality thing.

I'm a little kerfuffled about the concept of "duality" - can you help me understand it better?
I think it has to do with:
Light v Dark
Day v Night
Good v Evil
Male v Female
Calm v Stormy

ETA: Oppression v Freedom

Is that accurate?
Yin/yang. Can't appreciate one without the other.

BuzzyWigs
reply to post by LittleByLittle

 

Thank you much for this response.

I agree that it is a bit ambiguous. ....
It is a duality thing.

I'm a little kerfuffled about the concept of "duality" - can you help me understand it better?
I think it has to do with:
Light v Dark
Day v Night
Good v Evil
Male v Female
Calm v Stormy

ETA: Oppression v Freedom

Is that accurate?
Yin/yang. Can't appreciate one without the other.

edit on 3/7/2014 by BuzzyWigs because: not concentrating. sorry

You are right. In a way it is creating different groups that have opposite opinion apposed to non duality that sees everything as a whole.

Some people use duality to empower themselves as leader for a group or use divide an conquer methods to keep people occupied with less important things while important things get handled by those creating the duality.

For instance you can see the whole pro choice vs pro life discussion that happens every election in US that is a way to distract the voters from the really important issues and giving them something they can feel emotionally about and argue about. Politicians are very good at this.

Buddha taught that the truth most times is somewhere between the two extreme opposite dualistic views.

Duality hate is to hate for reasons like skin color, sexual preference, handicap, nationality, religion, cultural difference. Ego duality can be described as the self vs everything else, where some people suffer from ego blindness where they believe they are right just because they are themselves even if they are given opposite information. Upbringing and conditioning can be very effective in creating boxed egos caught up in duality and lack of ability to question their conditioning.

In some religions non duality is the concept of "everything that is" as one singe whole separated in to a large amount of parts. Just like you body can be seen as one but built up by cells and atoms. One in this case becomes a symbolic word meaning everything that is and the word Jehovah = “the existing One" can be interpreted to mean the only existing oneness. And that goes very well with Jesus claim "I and the Father are one" (symbiotically linked with god in oneness).

reply to post by LittleByLittle

In some religions non duality is the concept of "everything that is" as one singe whole separated in to a large amount of parts.

Yes, that's what I learned/practiced while exploring Buddhism.

Just like you body can be seen as one but built up by cells and atoms. One in this case becomes a symbolic word meaning everything that is

Quite.
I believe we are all part of 'the Creation' - having equal importance. A blade of grass, a campfire flame, a tornado, a pair of people who devote themselves to one another......

all -

"represent".

logical7
We all have a soul and if this is true then that soul has some needs.
It may require some things and averse to certain things.

So my question is if someone does not provide these needs or puts the soul through things that distress it then isn't he/she oppressing his/her soul?

What if the soul needs spirituality?
What if the soul needs to connect with its creator?

What if the soul needs to believe in God and a person witholds it from that by his/her free will?


There are different types of oppressions but oppression of the soul would be the worst.

Imagine keeping a baby away from its mother. Everyone would agree that the one who did that is cruel!!!
So what if a soul craves for a connection with divine the same way, how cruel it would be to prevent that??!!!

Hi Logi,
I will share an idea of mine if you wish to consider it or not. I have put together some things for myself regarding souls and spirits and the connections of them.

Every human has a soul. This is what I call the personality. People have more than one personality much of the time anyway.
The spirit, the source, well there actually two main ones that I have found.

The Sun has a source beat, what I call the spirit.
The Planet has a source beat, what I call the spirit.
Humans have a source beat, what I call the heart beat. This is not a soul, it is potential for spirit to inhabit.

Religions focus on the Sun spirit, outside worship of the masculine spirit. Human Idol
Spirituality focus on Planet spirit, inside worship of the feminine spirit. Astral idol

As a human observer the potential is to be endowed with both beats/pulses of the Sun and Planet in union with the human heart.
The heart is a magnet for lack of a better word and if it is attuned in balance then all three beats/pulses operate in union. It feels to me like a quiet mind, empty and peaceful, so that thoughts flow through without ego distortions.
It works off honesty of intent so their lies the problem, jealousy of others who have not attained this level of awareness and as a result constant attacks. It can take a person out of alignment very easy. The system is designed for this to happen but if you see the system and how it operates it is easy to navigate those frustrations.

originally posted by: logical7
What if the soul needs to believe in God and a person witholds it from that by his/her free will?

What if the soul needs spiritual truth, but the person withholds it from the soul by his/her free will ... withholds it by participating in the nonsense of certain organized religious beliefs. Instead of feeding the spirit truth, the person instead feeds it organized religious indoctrination that destroys the soul? Indoctrination rhetoric of organized religion that tastes good like candy ... but is actually poisoning the soul.

Things like ....
- you only go to heaven if you are in this particular man made organized religion
- you only prove you love God if you follow this particular man made organized religion
- you are a 'sinner' and harming your soul if you cut your beard
- you are a 'sinner' and harming your soul if you are a woman driving a car
- you are a 'sinner' and harming your soul if you practice birth control.
- you are a 'sinner' and harming your soul if you don't bow to mecca 5 times a day.
- you are a 'sinner' and harming your soul if you _______ blah blah blah

Feeding the soul the POISON that comes from organized religious indoctrination (be it Christian or Muslim or Judaism or whatever) can kill the spirit. A person must be careful what it feeds the soul. VERY CAREFUL. Otherwise, disease enters. Sometimes things look good to feed the soul with, but in reality its' like sugar laced candy ... tastes great but is addicting and bad for your health.

originally posted by: logical7
We all have a soul and if this is true then that soul has some needs.
It may require some things and averse to certain things.

So my question is if someone does not provide these needs or puts the soul through things that distress it then isn't he/she oppressing his/her soul?

What if the soul needs spirituality?
What if the soul needs to connect with its creator?

What if the soul needs to believe in God and a person witholds it from that by his/her free will?


There are different types of oppressions but oppression of the soul would be the worst.

Imagine keeping a baby away from its mother. Everyone would agree that the one who did that is cruel!!!
So what if a soul craves for a connection with divine the same way, how cruel it would be to prevent that??!!!

So if this is true, and it is the Body that is suppressing the soul, then should the soul be thrown into hell for eternal torment if it was the body that was keeping it away from it's "mother", it's "creator" and oppressing it?

a reply to: FlyersFan

Organized religions seem bad because they do have man made innovations sneaked into it.
But saying organised religions are bad in themselves is like saying that to be disciplined is to give away freedom.
Even meditation requires some discipline.
Spirituality is not divorced from the body and what is done to it.
God would not leave man unguided regarding how to care for the body too.

I see that in your version of spirituality it does not matter what one eats, how he lives, how he treats his own body, just that he believes in some "hobby like spirituality" that he/she practices when there is free time!!


For me everything is integrated and so yes there is a requirement of some structure in life to advance a person spiritually too.

originally posted by: arpgme

originally posted by: logical7
We all have a soul and if this is true then that soul has some needs.
It may require some things and averse to certain things.

So my question is if someone does not provide these needs or puts the soul through things that distress it then isn't he/she oppressing his/her soul?

What if the soul needs spirituality?
What if the soul needs to connect with its creator?

What if the soul needs to believe in God and a person witholds it from that by his/her free will?


There are different types of oppressions but oppression of the soul would be the worst.

Imagine keeping a baby away from its mother. Everyone would agree that the one who did that is cruel!!!
So what if a soul craves for a connection with divine the same way, how cruel it would be to prevent that??!!!

So if this is true, and it is the Body that is suppressing the soul, then should the soul be thrown into hell for eternal torment if it was the body that was keeping it away from it's "mother", it's "creator" and oppressing it?

The soul is not a complete seperate entity trapped in the body.

a reply to: logical7

So if it is not completely separate, then at some level it is in agreement with the body, therefore it is not oppressed.