Clinton: Putin Isn’t Hitler, He’s Just Using Hitler’s ‘Tactics’

reply to post by SLAYER69


Oh the irony of a Nazi-influenced government calling someone else "Hitler." Projection anyone?

I have been catching up on some history,

“Into the valley of Death Rode the six hundred … Boldly they rode and well, into the jaws of Death, into the mouth of Hell.”

Great thread, SLAYER.
Putin is attempting to take control over land that does not belong to Russia. It doesn't matter if there is resistance or if any shots are fired. Maybe they won't resist because they know they have no chance. I don't like this and I don't like where it may be headed. The U.S. is not ready for conflict with the Russians, IMO.

www.the-american-interest.com...

Here’s the rub. When Ukraine escaped from the Soviet Union in 1990, Soviet nukes from the Cold War were still stationed on Ukrainian territory. After a lot of negotiation, Ukraine agreed to return those nuclear weapons to Russia in exchange for what (perhaps naively) its leaders at the time thought would be solid security guarantees from the United States and the United Kingdom. The “Budapest Memorandum” as this agreement is called, does not in fact require the United States to do very much. We can leave Ukraine twisting in the wind without breaking our limited formal obligations under the pact.

If President Obama does this, however, and Ukraine ends up losing chunks of territory to Russia, it is pretty much the end of a rational case for non-proliferation in many countries around the world. If Ukraine still had its nukes, it would probably still have Crimea. It gave up its nukes, got worthless paper guarantees, and also got an invasion from a more powerful and nuclear neighbor.

But what has been on my mind is this,


Russians Inspect Missile Defense Base in California
freebeacon.com...
August 22, 2013

Russian officials this week carried out a secret inspection of the U.S. strategic missile defense base in California as part of the New START arms treaty, according to Obama administration officials.

The inspection of five missile defense interceptors is allowed under the 2010 arms accord. The treaty requires cuts of U.S. and Russian deployed strategic warheads to 1,550.

WTF?! really?! he is either the biggest baffoon in the history of the world, or they are actually trying to help them.

The treaty prohibits converting any additional ICBM silos at Vandenberg to missile defense silos, and the five current GBI silos, built prior to the treaty, were “grandfathered” into the accord.

“The administration agreed with Russia to provide assurances to Russia that the converted ICBM silos ‘remain incapable’ of launching strategic offensive arms [and] record the distinguishing features that set a GBI-converted intercontinental silo apart from a pure intercontinental silo,” Moore said.

The Russian visit from Aug. 18 to Aug. 23 is the only time the Russians will be allowed to look at the GBI silos to confirm that they have not been converted back into ICBMs.

Moore said the visit does not appear to be part of the Obama administration’s effort to show more transparency toward Moscow as a way to placate Russian opposition to missile defenses, especially in Europe.

Yes, let us assure Russia, my god,

Russia’s Western enablers
www.washingtonpost.com...

Clinton is just trying to push off the Nazi American stigma that it acquired over the last decade to Russia, using a bit reverse psychology on the populace... but still she is loosing the info war! It's sad, when you can read her like a book...

reply to post by SLAYER69


Hillary has to look tough for the stupid American people or they might elect a Republican.

Since all there will be is a Nazi like GOP candidate in the mold of the mass murderer George Bush or this ugly demonic witch who did the same thing in Libya as she is accusing Russia of doing—and it was Hitler like as well.

Stormdancer777
Russia’s Western enablers
www.washingtonpost.com...

That sounds exactly like how the CIA sets up and operates companies. They are probably a little more proficient at it now as they've been doing it a lot longer.

Have you read Confessions of an Economic Hitman by John Perkins? While often some of the book comes off as far-fetched, a Huffington Post contributor noted the same thing and compared the book to the real life leaks that have come out from Wikileaks and other hackers. If anything, the real life stuff lends more credence to what Perkins actually wrote. (Truth being stranger than fiction.)

At any rate, there is no doubt that in the wake of the crumbling of the Soviet Union in the 90s that the USA employed economic hitmen to ensure Russia would never be as powerful again.

Research: Project Hammer + Russia
You will find a lot of USA corporate corruption and CIA involvement at the heart of further collapsing Russia after the fall of the Soviet Union. One corrupt corporation involved in lending billions of dollars to Russia was Enron. HAHAHA!

Search ATS Forums for Project Hammer and you will find several posts relating to it with links/books/etc.

What I really believe is that Putin is and has been regaining Russia's economic power and this Ukrainian "intervention" is little more than a continued attempt to keep Russia from climbing back up the ladder.

reply to post by WCmutant


Thanks WC,I will check that out.

And now the "referendum" to make Crime part of Russia - no longer Hitlerian tactics - this one comes straight out of Stalin's playbook for the Baltic States - occupy a country under the pretense of "anti-Soviet activities" where no such activities actually existed, then run a "referendum" while it is still under military occupation to annex it.

To be fair to Hitler tho' this did come about because of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact....so there is still a connection to him.

And yet all you libertarians think that Russia is somehow being pushed into all this by the USA?

reply to post by SLAYER69

Agreed, I'd also add..

I got to thinking, but had one foot out the door...I think (maybe) we partly agree, but not completely

Not for nothin' Slayer :-) but Ol' HIll got it right

I'd have to be a complete moron to miss how much people hate her - I get it. So, this is the level of thinking involved in public discourse any more - hate someone - disregard anything and everything they say. Then lower the bar to below low brow and get her real good - as some (not all) in this thread have done. God knows if we can't argue intelligently we can always resort to cattiness

I wish she'd stuck more to her guns - she wasn't wrong. That's why I posted what I did. Putin can both create and time his moments any way he wants to, and we end up with exactly that same scenario. Accommodate and acquiesce

Nobody wanted a war then - we sure as shootin' we don't want one now. He wins - the Crimea is his. Of course - he'll be happy with that and leave everything else alone alone...I'm sure the rest of the Ukrainians aren't worried

People fling around the Hitler/Nazi comparison for a reason - it's a symbol - a benchmark. It's used too much maybe, inaccurately and flamboyantly. We here in the Enlightened West know exactly what it means though - and sometimes it's on the mark

You and I do agree that history makes it difficult for us to claim the moral high ground - but the problem is bigger than that

The times we live in make cynicism second nature, we would rather die than compromise or agree with the opposing team - even when it hurts us

This is what it is - I just find it interesting and a little amusing that instead of focusing on the problem we attack someone who calls it what it is

My two cents

:-)

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

It seems Russia and Russian society is one where democracy just won't work.

Honestly Wrabbit - where to start...?

If I thought we could do it with a pinch of humor - I surely would - start

:-)

reply to post by Spiramirabilis


you have to remember that Russia/USSR have NEVER had democracy, the rule of law and civil society - not ever. Not as the Rus Ccandinavian adventurers, the Kievan and Muscovite princes, the Mongols, not as subject states of the Golden Horde or under the Rurikid or Romanov or communist dynasties - and also not since the breakup of the USSR.

their entire culture is tied up with autocracy and the church supporting each other - all their assumed values, norms and cultural icons reflect that.

Any change to that is going to take a long time........and if we are lucky that is all it will take.

reply to post by SLAYER69


Doesn't that Old Hag know by Now it's Obama using Hitlers Tactics ?

Aloysius the Gaul
reply to post by Spiramirabilis

 

you have to remember that Russia/USSR have NEVER had democracy, the rule of law and civil society - not ever. Not as the Rus Ccandinavian adventurers, the Kievan and Muscovite princes, the Mongols, not as subject states of the Golden Horde or under the Rurikid or Romanov or communist dynasties - and also not since the breakup of the USSR.

That's exactly my thinking on it too... I'm finally moving into the 19th century in my college history courses from starting at the Greeks and Romans in the first one. You're right. Democracy is a relatively new thing in the world thinking or experience. It simply isn't for every nation or everyone. It never was and should never have been peddled like vacuum cleaners by a salesman.

It's definitely not cultural superiority as I've heard the position referred to before, since I'm certainly the first to say here that our system isn't 'beneath' anyone. It just flat doesn't work in all cultures. It does real harm in some, eh?

To each their own and isn't self determination supposed to be our value in the end, anyway?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Indeed - however the Ukrainians seem to have expressed some interest in changing their cultural paradigm to "liberal democracy" a la Western Europe...and the Russians do not like being told that someone doesn't like their system!

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


I think I see a far more complex situation than that. The political map alone has a 1/3rd of Ukraine distinctly separate from the rest for supporting the President....the one who never has actually resigned, has he?...and favors Russia over the west.

So far, that looks like the most peaceful and almost friendly occupation I've ever seen by some very well disciplined troops. Watching the VICE guys all but intentionally provoke them made me cringe a little, despite it being 25 years since doing that could have changed their lives (or ended them). I'm not sure how patient our own troops may have been in a reverse situation to some of that, to be honest. It's not the picture the 'urgent, gotta go!' messages out of Washington paint, that's for sure.

Complex... Indeed.. That's the best way I can put what I'm seeing.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

their entire culture is tied up with autocracy and the church supporting each other - all their assumed values, norms and cultural icons reflect that.

It's too bad they're not more like us

We all get the democracy we deserve I guess

The USA is always interested in spliting other Countries in the name of citizen self-determination and free will.
As I remember this is the first time that the hegemonic power talk about territorial integrity.
Don't the Crimea people have the right of self-determination and free will?
Don't they have the right to take a referendum on independence or joining the Russian Federation?

Spiramirabilis
It's too bad they're not more like us

We all get the democracy we deserve I guess

The US is not a Democracy though. I wish more people realized this. To my fellow Americans who think we are *I'm not making a political statement.

It's a fact.

Look it up