Lois Lerner invokes the Fifth Amendment... again

They need a special prosecutor, and if they really have the goods on her, they need to offer her use immunity and then she can no longer plead the 5th. Then if she refuses to talk she is in contempt. Let her rot for contempt if she won't talk.

She has liar written all over her ugly face. That government hack job witch Katherine Sibelius and this gal should get together and form a bowling team. ~$heopleNation

reply to post by Bassago

I think the only way they're going to get anything out of her is through immunity.

Thankfully, Trey Gowdy made it very clear, a day prior, that Lerner wouldn't be offered immunity. Granting her immunity, while she continues to provide less than the whole truth ... protecting the higher-ups ... is a show stopper.

I think the opposition is playing this one out until the Senate elections are concluded. If you get a Republican Senate, expect the hammer to come swinging downward ... and the house of cards to fall.

Think they said she will be compelled to testify next week - if she doesn't she will go to court and will be held in Contempt of Congress and she will be cooling her heels in jail until she decides to testify. So she actually could be in jail in the next 2 or 3 weeks.

Snarl
reply to post by Bassago

 

I think the only way they're going to get anything out of her is through immunity.

Thankfully, Trey Gowdy made it very clear, a day prior, that Lerner wouldn't be offered immunity. Granting her immunity, while she continues to provide less than the whole truth ... protecting the higher-ups ... is a show stopper.

'

You grant her "use immunity" so that she cannot hide behind the 5th. You can still try her later on evidence you gain from other avenues (ie the investigation by a special prosecutor). In the meantime, she cannot refuse to answer questions by claiming the 5th. She has to either answer or sit in a cell.

_Del_

Snarl
reply to post by Bassago

 

I think the only way they're going to get anything out of her is through immunity.

Thankfully, Trey Gowdy made it very clear, a day prior, that Lerner wouldn't be offered immunity. Granting her immunity, while she continues to provide less than the whole truth ... protecting the higher-ups ... is a show stopper.

'

You grant her "use immunity" so that she cannot hide behind the 5th. You can still try her later on evidence you gain from other avenues (ie the investigation by a special prosecutor). In the meantime, she cannot refuse to answer questions by claiming the 5th. She has to either answer or sit in a cell.

I can't pretend to know the legal details of what you've described. Gowdy' a clever lawyer and I'll have to trust his angle.

They've obviously got Lerner by the proverbial you-know-whats and they're gonna dangle her awhile. If nothing else, she deserves to sweat.

I think 'the other side' is holding a couple of good hole cards. We'll have to see when 'the pardon' is pulled out of the sleeve.

Keep in mind they held Holder in "Contempt of Congress" over Benghazi for not turning over documents and he still hasn't turned over documents and he is still in his job.

They will probably just pay off Lerner and she will sit in jail for a year or until Obama pardons her at the end of his term...that's my guess.

Obama is a POS. Worst President in history and the most corrupt BY FAR.

SheopleNation
She has liar written all over her ugly face. That government hack job witch Katherine Sibelius and this gal should get together and form a bowling team. ~$heopleNation

a *prison* bowling team.

SheopleNation
She has liar written all over her ugly face. That government hack job witch Katherine Sibelius and this gal should get together and form a bowling team. ~$heopleNation

Been there, watched them... two just like Kate and Lois locally with about 170 averages that can SCARE a split down.
Yo the OP: if Issa doesn't pull a huddle and move hard for immunity it will look like more than Lois are caving to the threats. The implications of this affair are completely off the charts compared to even Fast and Furious. If somebody told me even thirty years ago (ten after Nixon) this was happening again, there would have been big pointed farming tools and flaming 2x4s aplenty.
Gotta love that fluoride....

I think Mr. Issa is so rich, that $14,000,000,000 of taxpayer money is just vapor for him. Of course, if that money was spent on social programs, it would be too much.


Link

Unbelievable! People on this site are always wailing and going on about how the government is abusing their rights, stripping them away, blah blah blah.

Now that we have someone who is actually exercising their rights, people are wailing about that! The rights are there for everyone, government official or not. You take them away from one person it makes it easier to take them away from everyone.

I don't like the Tea Party, I'll be up front about it. I also don't agree with the IRS being used to target groups that are in opposition to those in power.

This woman has every right to plead the 5th, and she should not be stopped from doing that, as it is her right as outlined in the Constitution. The prosecution should be able to build their case without her testimony. If they can't, then they should have tried harder.

MOMof3
I think Mr. Issa is so rich, that $14,000,000,000 of taxpayer money is just vapor for him. Of course, if that money was spent on social programs, it would be too much.


Link

Now that we see what you lean to in your need to deflect.....

What about Ms. Lerner?

She previously testified that she has done nothing wrong.

Now she is using 5th Amendment protection.

If she didn't perjure herself during the initial testimony, why is there any need for her to invoke the 5th?

MOMof3
I think Mr. Issa is so rich, that $14,000,000,000 of taxpayer money is just vapor for him. Of course, if that money was spent on social programs, it would be too much.


Link

I'll be more than happy to see investigations into Issa and his $60 million dollar a year income. He seems to be ranked among the wealthiest men in Congress..and that is saying something in that place.

However, first things first and if no one minds too much...there is an IRS corruption and official misuse of power case to get finished first.

reply to post by tebyen

This woman has every right to plead the 5th, and she should not be stopped from doing that, as it is her right as outlined in the Constitution. The prosecution should be able to build their case without her testimony. If they can't, then they should have tried harder.

I have previously stated that I support her right to use the 5th Amendment.

Here is the deal though,

She previously testified that she has done nothing wrong.
Now she invokes the 5th Amendment.

This means that she must have been lying when she testified that she did nothing wrong.

Using the 5th Amendment is a Constitutional right that I fully support. I do not support what was obviously going on at the IRS, nor do I support a high ranking public servant lying to a Congressional committee.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


They have already done that and proved it. Now, we are throwing our tax dollars down a rabbit hole.

MOMof3
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

They have already done that and proved it. Now, we are throwing our tax dollars down a rabbit hole.

They proved what?
Was the White House involved?
Did it stop with Ms. Lerner?
Who will be held accountable for what an earlier poster likened to something worse than the transgressions of Nixon (I agree)???

MOMof3
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

They have already done that and proved it. Now, we are throwing our tax dollars down a rabbit hole.

Ummm.. No. They absolutely, 100% have not. Please, direct me to the report of the investigation with final conclusions and the final results of the hearings and witness testimony. You can't...because there is not one in existence. We've been told this would be investigated and they'd get to the bottom of it. They are investigating ...ENDLESSLY...but spinning wheels and playing games.

What we have *NOT* had is ONE SINGLE 'scandal' or legal problem actually investigated TO CONCLUSION. Not ONE. Not ONCE. So far we have ..as OPEN cases with NO conclusion....

- The I.R.S. Scandal
- Benghazi and the murder of 4 Americans
- Fast and Furious for the contribution to the Mexican Civil War w/ over 70,000 dead civilians...and still going
- Perjury of the US Attorney General in TWO different cases ('Rosengate' and Fast and Furious)
- Rosengate (Remember...tearing the freedom of the press to shreds in the name of state security?...still investigating)
- Sebelius donations solicited from companies under regulation by her HHS. (Still going..)
- GSA gone wild and spending like drunken sailors..AS the 'Watchers'.. (Remember the vids from Vegas and more? ..still going)
- Solyndra.....and 500 Million Dollars went where???? Err.. Sheriff Joe dropped the ball on that oversight, eh??


These are still open and ongoing issues. Probably will be until he's out of office. We get speeches with indignation and promises of investigation ... and we get B.S. and time wasting to run out the clock.

Who has gone to jail...not even prison..JUST JAIL...for Benghazi or Fast & Furious? How about the IRS, to get back to the primary issue here?

When you can cite for me the final report and summary conclusions for the IRS scandal, as our President TOLD US WE WOULD HAVE....I will entertain the idea this has been investigated. Until then, people can say it a thousand times...it doesn't make it true anymore than the B.S. lies we've been handed on the story itself.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


And here is where we agree.
She has the right to enact the Fifth at any time during a hearing.

But, here is something we need to review. IS this a Criminal hearing, or a Civil hearing or......a Congressional hearing.

The Fifth was established for Criminal hearings.

Many many times within the Civil hearing realm, people are compelled to answer questions. Now, where are the rules and procedures within Congressional hearings. Does the Fifth still apply?

Here is where I personally see the biggest difference.

She is being brought before a Congressional hearing, in regards to her job, that she has made every indication that she has committed something so bad, that she fears that what she says will be used in conjunction with Criminal proceedings.

I see where the "perjury" statement has been made, and agree that it is a spider trap set. Oh, you forgot some others that were painted into a corner with this process.

I would have no issue, being a Libertarian, with her being granted immunity so long as her statement provides who in fact is behind the targeting of groups via the IRS.

If this turns into a Bill Clinton talk for the agreed on time, where is speaks about the weather and so on, then immunity is gone.

Every want in me wants every person within Govt, to be forced to tell the truth. Either by threat of prison, fine, termination and so on. But.....what does the Constitution state in regards to Govt workers and hearings dealing directly with actions they performed during their employment.

Bassago


And she should be on a polygraph when she answers or she'll just keep lying. Can we do that?

Polygraphs are very easy to beat.

I bet she is protected by the Govt Worker Union. Talk about the biggest scam ever. A Govt Workers Union. I got many horror stories regarding that crap and how it protects scumbags. But, back on topic I guess.