Will Ukraine arm itself with nukes?

a reply to: openminded2011

I don't think the Ukraine has any say in these types of things, they are clearly owned and controlled by the US these days and they will do whatever they are instructed to do.

If they are told the by their 'friends' the US, or, is that "partners" that the US is going to put nukes on their soil all their man in charge will say is yes sir.

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: openminded2011

I don't think the Ukraine has any say in these types of things, they are clearly owned and controlled by the US these days and they will do whatever they are instructed to do.

If they are told the by their 'friends' the US, or, is that "partners" that the US is going to put nukes on their soil all their man in charge will say is yes sir.

You realize if that was true Russia would have been booted back across the border long ago. It's not like the US couldn't have enough troops on the ground to end this. Could even do the Russian thing and pretend they aren't us troops. But the US always admits when they send troops to other countries. Wonder what would happen in Russia if they did the same.

Now back to the thread one thing I do find funny is many people here seem to think Ukraine couldn't make a nuke. Yes they could very quickly they have the know how and experience. There was a reason a large portion of Soviets missiles were in Ukraine they understand nuclear. It's not by accident they're have the largest nuclear plant in europe.

a reply to: dragonridr

Actually Ukraine has ZERO nuclear manufacturing plant - as I noted before - what "largest plant" are you referring to??

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Azureblue
a reply to: openminded2011

I don't think the Ukraine has any say in these types of things, they are clearly owned and controlled by the US these days and they will do whatever they are instructed to do.

If they are told the by their 'friends' the US, or, is that "partners" that the US is going to put nukes on their soil all their man in charge will say is yes sir.

You realize if that was true Russia would have been booted back across the border long ago. It's not like the US couldn't have enough troops on the ground to end this. Could even do the Russian thing and pretend they aren't us troops. But the US always admits when they send troops to other countries. Wonder what would happen in Russia if they did the same.

Now back to the thread one thing I do find funny is many people here seem to think Ukraine couldn't make a nuke. Yes they could very quickly they have the know how and experience. There was a reason a large portion of Soviets missiles were in Ukraine they understand nuclear. It's not by accident they're have the largest nuclear plant in europe.

I disagree, the only reason why war has not broken out is because Russia has not reacted to the provacations of the US. By doing this they are likily to be making things worse themsevels.

Russia had a chance to cut the oil to western Europe off during the northern winter but they didn't. By cutting the oil off it would caused the US's European "partners" to persue a much more independent foreign policy to Washington's.

They would very quickly become more concerned about their own problems than helping the US implement the Wolfawitzs doctrine of preventing any other country from becoming a superpower leaving the US as the sole superpower in the world.

If the situation in the Ukraine does not result in war then the US is likly to wear Russia down using economic, finanical and military power. This will leave China alone and isloated and encirciled by the US.

China is likely to take a different course of action to Russia, They may conclude after watching Russia go down that they have only two clear options, surrender or fight.

a reply to: Azureblue

Naive point of view Russia didn't cut off fuel sales because they can't afford to. Trust me if that was an option they would have made the threat. Look they have no problem threatening people with their nuclear weapons. However the eating to shut down gas supplies would kill what's left of the Russian economy.

As far as China they would love it if Russia fell apart. Gives them a locked up Asian market and a chance to take back their territory. china is no friend of Russia and never will be like all countries they put themselves first.

They likely either still have a nuke or two, or have the means to make one. Problem for Ukraine is, how do they use it? If one was left over from the disarmment, then this would make Kyiv guilty as well of not fullfilling the agreement, so far they are keen on impressing the West in regards to their eagerness to stick to the status quo.

If they should make a new nuke, they can't just tell Russia to "leave E. Ukraine and crimea, or we'll nuke you." because Russia would consider this a direct threat, and Putin would be justified in taking out their nuclear facilities, using either nuclear or conventional means. The EU, and possibly the US may also condemn Kyiv for taking the nuclear route.

Still, when push comes to shove, I couldn't hardly blame them. Ukraine is fighting an aggressor several times more military capable than themselves. For all we know, Ukraine has a couple nukes, but it waiting until the last possible second to threaten the use of them...but to disclose this in a warning to Russia, will no doubt trigger a military response. If they were to forego the warning, and just use a nuke, it was for certain trigger a nuclear response from Russia, and likel cause World War III.

If I were them, and had a nuke, I wouldn't make it public for sure, but I'd also wait until I had no other option other than disclosing this fact. Only other tactic I can see would be a terror attack against Russia, similiar to what Russia is doing now, where they drop a dirty bomb, but don't take credit for it...but its likely this would also escalate, where Russia would blame Ukraine and possibly the West, again, triggering a nuclear war.

Personally, I think they got a nuke, or can make one easy enough. If North Korea could make a few nukes under heavy sanctions and limited funds, i'm sure Ukraine would have no problem in doing this. They know how to do it, and likely have the facilities left over from the cold war to do it with. If there were to happen to be a leftover nuke or two in Ukraine, doesn't matter if it works or not, they can still harvest the radioactive material to build new ones. In either case, they can probably (and possibly have) build new ones from scratch if they chose to do so, and it would be above top secret. The US didn't exactly have nuke facilities in place when Fat Man and Little Boy were built. Where there is a need, there will be a means.

a reply to: JonStone

North Korea made one by starving its population and being unbelievably secretive.

Ukraine has been too corrupt to be able to keep a nuke secret.