NEWS: Ukraine on the brink of Civil War, page 2

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 05:46 AM

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seems like vote rigging has become popular hobby. First usa elections twice a row then belarus and now ukraine..Only time will tell what will happen at ukraine, i would presume that military is going to interfere public riots and everyone will be squelched and whole case dismissed. Like before

-ap

Volkgeister

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 06:43 AM

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Originally posted by Muaddib

Originally posted by Volkgeister

I was not making a snide "anti-american" remark, and i was not for one instance stating that communism is better (by the way commuism is not the polar opposite of democracy).
............

Well, first of I said communism because that was the form of government they used to have, and some seem to want back.

Second, autocracy is the opposite of democracy....and in autocracy one person or a small group of people have all the power without participation or consent of the people. Communism fits well as an autocracy among other things.

First... Viktor Yanukovych is not a communist, no need to worry about that

I hope that democracy triumphs, but Mr Yushchenko would still face resistance. Even if there was major election fraud, Yushchenko still wouldn't have a popular mandate in the East. It is easy to say Ukrainian and imagine one single unified people, but that is not the case

Civil war is a real possibility....

khruschev

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 09:08 AM

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Originally posted by cyberdude78
Then the two powers will attempt to force their respective styles of goverment down the Ukrainians throats. I'm guessing that if this happens either the US will take control and turn it into Europe's Irap. Or Russia will take control and it will be about the same as the cold war. Either way civil war for Ukraine could be an international disaster.

What does USA have to do with Ukraine? I would just like to tell you to mind your own business (not you as cyberdude78, but you as USA and US government). The results clearly show the victory of Yanukovich, and Yushenko just thinks he can get to power by lying to his own people... "Exit" polls don't actually show anything, the people just vote for whoever on those, so it can't be used as a proof of electoral fraud.
Any kind of power takeover by violence would be a crime, and Ukraine will respond to it, and will take care of those who are the main problems. If needed and invited by Ukrainian government Russian forces will help maintain peace and stability as long as it is needed.
And if USA tries to enter Ukraine it would probably start WW3, so USA won't do it, and if Russia enters than the tensions would rise, but not between Russia and USA, but between Russia and #$%#$%# Western Europe.

UM_Gazz

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 10:55 AM

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Originally posted by khruschev
Any kind of power takeover by violence would be a crime, and Ukraine will respond to it, and will take care of those who are the main problems. If needed and invited by Ukrainian government Russian forces will help maintain peace and stability as long as it is needed.
And if USA tries to enter Ukraine it would probably start WW3, so USA won't do it, and if Russia enters than the tensions would rise, but not between Russia and USA, but between Russia and #$%#$%# Western Europe.

khruschev, are you from Ukraine?

Your view is interesting... very.

rustiswordz

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:02 AM

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Need i remind everyone that the Ukraine has the 4th largest nuke stockpile, if they have or had given it up do you think they will keep some for old times sake.

infinite

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:12 AM

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Originally posted by rustiswordz
Need i remind everyone that the Ukraine has the 4th largest nuke stockpile, if they have or had given it up do you think they will keep some for old times sake.

You think they will use them against any outside force that gets involved??
hmm...interesting

jazzgul

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:13 AM

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updated news:
[quote:
KIEV, Ukraine - Ukraine's Supreme Court on Thursday prohibited making the results of the nation's disputed presidential election official until it considers an appeal, Ukrainian news agencies reported. quote]

story.news.yahoo.com.../ap/20041125/ap_on_re_eu/ukraine_elections

Lets hope the resonable voices will take over...
As I temporary live in Poland I would prefer not to have any war just behind my doorstep -I've noticed that polish government is trying to take some action too...
story.news.yahoo.com.../ap/20041125/ap_on_re_eu/poland_ukraine_worries

[edit on 25-11-2004 by jazzgul]

infinite

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:34 AM

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To be honest, i dont think this will lead to a major war on a national scale

just a Civil War

rustiswordz

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 11:42 AM

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Originally posted by infinite

Originally posted by rustiswordz
Need i remind everyone that the Ukraine has the 4th largest nuke stockpile, if they have or had given it up do you think they will keep some for old times sake.

You think they will use them against any outside force that gets involved??
hmm...interesting

or whoever sorts this mess out the nukes fall into the wrong hands during the confusion if war does start.

khruschev

posted on Nov, 25 2004 @ 01:04 PM

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khruschev, are you from Ukraine?

No, I am from Russia as I have stated before, and in my profile...

Lets hope the resonable voices will take over...

Yes, let's hope Yanukovich becomes president, and Yushenko is arrested, along with the ones which help him get all that crowd to street and the ones which help him lie in people's faces.

UM_Gazz

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 06:08 AM

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New links from top news media sites:

Ukraine Opposition Supporters Block Buildings as EU Leaders Travel to Kiev

Ukraine's chorus of protest grows

Crowds blockade Kiev government

Ukraine vote on hold after ruling

EU leaders travel to Kiev, Supporters block access to government buildings. One can only hope that the leaders of the Ukraine do not use force to move or remove these protesters.. I am afraid if that happens it will be the spark that ignites civil war in the Ukraine.

rustiswordz

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 07:48 AM

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I agree, if force is used it will jsy be the excuse for more extreme elements to think: 'we were right, this goverment is/will be corrupt, lets shoot them.'

Then all hell will be let loose.

The Ukraine is a huge and heavily armed country, with a massive convetional arsenal and experienced soldiers/sailors/airmen to boot.

It will make the Balkans conflict look like a back yard shoving match, its gonna get ugly very fast, cool heads must prevail.

Hellmutt

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 08:43 AM

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When the Ukrainian TV-station NTU announced that the winner was Yanukovych, the sign language interpreter Natalia Dmitrouk said (on the air, live) : "People, this is just BS. This is not true." Very brave.
NRK - Norwegian article...

khruschev

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:21 AM

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Originally posted by Hellmutt

When the Ukrainian TV-station NTU announced that the winner was Yanukovych, the sign language interpreter Natalia Dmitrouk said (on the air, live) : "People, this is just BS. This is not true." Very brave.

Hopefully she already got fired for unprofessional behavior. I don't know Ukrainian laws, but maybe she gets to do some jail time as well.

[edit on 26/11/2004 by khruschev]

UM_Gazz

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 12:24 PM

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Originally posted by khruschev

Hopefully she already got fired for unprofessional behavior. I don't know Ukrainian laws, but maybe she gets to do some jail time as well.

I could see her being fired.. But jail?

People in the USA have done far worse and kept their jobs.. ask Dan Rather!

Well he quit.. But was not fired or jailed for fake documents he reported as fact and real.

I find it disturbing that anyone in the news media would face Jail for such things.

I would even call this woman brave.. But stupid.. and perhaps she should be fired... If they jail her it will only prove the fears of the people of the Ukraine.

Gazz

UM_Gazz

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 12:49 PM

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Ukraine rivals meet to end crisis

The outgoing president of Ukraine, Leonid Kuchma, is meeting the country's rivals for the presidency, Viktor Yanukovich and Viktor Yushchenko.
The meeting, in Kiev, is taking place in the presence of mediators from European countries.

Mr Kuchma earlier urged opposition supporters, who are blocking access to government buildings, to give up their mass street protests in Kiev.

He said they should calm their "passions", for the good of the people.

The council of the eastern region of Luhansk has voted in favour of setting up a separate republic, the Ukrainian news agency (UNIAN) reports.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

It could be a good sign that at least there will be dialog between all sides and at the top.

Perhaps this will now have a peaceful end.

Muaddib

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 07:23 PM

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Originally posted by curme
So similar to the US. The "loser" won the exit polls. Reports of cheating and voter intimidation by the "winner".
Why is the US so intellectually incurious when it comes to our democracy?

Have we become complacent and lazy? Scared to enforce the freedoms our country was founded on?

The problem with your "assumption" curme is that what happened in the U.S. is different to what happened over there....and voter fraud has been found to be done by all sides..... Not only that but you want to "enforce the freedoms of people that think like you"....but you want to deny the freedom of those who don't think like you...which is the majority of voters, which seem to believe the opposite to what you are saying....

UM_Gazz

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 08:54 PM

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Sometime early today there was a hopeful sign as Ukraine's rivals agreed to meet for talks on the current political crisis following the disputed election results. According to the following updated report the two sides failed to resolve the political crisis and are no closer to deciding who will lead this bitterly divided nation. It looks like civil war is still very much possible.

ABCNEWS.com Full Article

KIEV, Ukraine Nov 26, 2004 � Ukraine's two rivals for power failed in nearly three hours of talks Friday to resolve the political stalemate over who will lead the bitterly divided nation, and opposition candidate Viktor Yushchenko told a huge rally that he was insisting on a new election.

Outgoing President Leonid Kuchma presided at the meeting with Yushchenko, Prime Minister Viktor Yanukovich and a delegation of key European envoys, and he said a working group had been established to find a solution to the crisis over who will succeed him. The group was expected to begin meeting as soon as Saturday.

The Krelim-backed Yanukovych was declared the winner of Sunday's election but cannot be inaugurated pending hearing of an appeal to the Supreme Court filed by the Yushchenko camp.

President Bush said from his vacation home in Crawford, Texas, that the world "is watching very closely" and he hoped the crisis would be "resolved in a way that brings credit and confidence to the Ukrainian government." The United States and European Union have said they cannot accept the results of the runoff election, warning of "consequences" of Ukraine's relations with the West if the current outcome stands.

Please visit the link provided for the complete story.

They say when they stop talking bad things can happen.

One can only hope they will find a way to at least keep talking and keep a channel of communication and dialog open.

The people of the Ukraine seem to have a much stronger will than many expected.

kimlp

posted on Nov, 26 2004 @ 09:17 PM

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I hope the Ukrainian people can figure this out without resolving to violence!
My thoughts are with you!
But on a side note, for those of you who are interested in international politics, one can not observe this situation, and not think about how the EU is going to handle this. The Ukraine is so to speak the EU's back yard, and one might wonder what the region super power ("the 25 state Europe") respons will be.
My guess is the public response will be somewhere along the lines of Solana saying "behave or we will be mad for a year or two", but I expect alot of diplomacy in the quiet.

Kim

Hellmutt

posted on Nov, 27 2004 @ 02:01 AM

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From: BBC: Ukraine opposition seeks new vote

Ukrainian opposition leader Viktor Yushchenko has demanded a re-run of the country's disputed presidential vote.

Mr Yushchenko said he and his supporters would take "active measures" if the government did not agree to a new vote within days.

Mr Yanukovych accused the opposition, which has been blocking access to government buildings, of attempting to stage a coup.

He told a large crowd of his supporters in Kiev that they should do everything they could to stop it.

If they start using violence to beat down the protesting crowd, it might trigger a civil war. There are no signs of compromise at the moment. The picture show a group of Yanukovych's supporters.

[edit on 2004/11/27 by Hellmutt]