9 Cases That Prove the Existence of Pyramids in Bosnia: (Once and for all?)

I have to admit that I have been out of things for almost two years when it comes to ATS ancients but before that, I was interested in the "Bosnian Pyramids" and from what I saw and read at the time, believed it was a foregone conclusion that they were real-so to speak.

Then I recently saw an article that called into question the legitimacy of the "find". I don't have that article here-yet. But this morning I saw this article and after reading it-again believe the Bosnian Prymaids are real-just not understood yet. So the Egyptian experts continue to rip on this instead of working together-IMO. Check this out and let us know what you think.

ANY ATSers been here. I see they seek volunteers for Summer Digs. Getting ready to retire and see if the wife will go for that?! Here she comes now.....
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In October of 2005, international media covered a sensational story of a man claiming to have discovered a group of huge, previously unknown ancient Pyramids in Europe. The man, Anthropologist Dr. Semir Osmanagic, made the fantastic announcement to journalists that he had found the biggest and oldest pyramids in the world and incredibly they were to be found buried in the most unlikely of places… Bosnia. The ancient structures, Osmanagic explained, were buried in the hillsides surrounding a small sleepy town called Visoko, located 25km North-West of the Bosnian Capital, Sarajevo. The town, now barely known for its once booming leather industry, would become the centre of a fierce international debate which, after eight years, continues on through to this day.

In 2006, after initial probing and surveying, Osmanagic created the not for profit, “Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation” and in the summer of that year large scale excavations began. Almost immediately after Osmanagic started his project the authenticity of his miraculous find was to be called into question. Zahi Hawass, archaeologist and later becoming “Egyptian Minister of Antiquities,” released a statement in June of 2006 in which he strongly criticised Osmanagic and his Pyramid hypothesis. Giving his reasons, Hawass referred to several large blocks that had been excavated by the research teams, explaining that “No one can say that these stones were transported by human beings since each weighs approximately 40 tons.” Hawass’s explanation for the blocks and the pyramid shaped hill was to be that Osmanagic must be “hallucinating”

According to Osmanagic, there are no fewer than 5 buried Pyramids within the vicinity of the town of Visoko with a possibility for as many as nine in total. The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun, the largest and most obviously pyramidal in shape of the Bosnian Pyramids, is over 270m tall and has an estimated mass 39 times greater than that of the Great Pyramid of Giza, Egypt [4]. At 190m tall, the second largest of the Bosnian Pyramids is the “Pyramid of the Moon,” which is no less than 50m taller than the Egyptian Great Pyramid. Close by to the Moon Pyramid towards the South-West is an unusually shaped structure named “Temple of Mother Earth‟. This structure has a form similar to that of a crescent moon or amphitheatre and is of an impressive size, equalling that of its neighbouring Pyramids. Surrounding the Bosnian pyramid complex are also numerous, more modestly sized supporting structures including mounds and tumuli, the most accessible of which is found several kilometres North East from the centre of the pyramid complex.

The PROOF Arguments/Evidence (if you will-):

1) Cardinal Alignments
2) Topographical Alignments
3) Sixteen Wind Cartography
4) Hollow Spaces
5) Geopolymer Composition
6) Composite Blocks
7) Electromagnetic and Ultrasonic Emissions
8) Sacred Landscape
9) Tunnel System

Source: www.wakingtimes.com...

This is all the same rehashed junk as before.

There are various explanations or simply basic reasoning skills that contradict all the claims made by Semir. Robert Schoch, an archaeologist that has in interest in parapsychology and other fringe topics, himself went to the site and determined it was not man made.

www.robertschoch.com...

I maintain my conviction that there are NO pyramids at Visoko, Bosnia. Rather, all the so-called pyramids are the result of natural geological processes and phenomena that are currently being “excavated” (i.e., modified) to look like pyramids.

A Couple of other Comments:

Many non-geologists have been impressed by the “regularity” of certain features at Visoko, and from these regularities have argued that they cannot be natural, but rather must be manmade. One should realize that geology is full of regularities, from the precise forms of mineral crystals, to the common occurrence of cyclical sedimentation (which at Visoko accounts for the regularity of the sandstone layers occurring at intervals on the order of a meter in many places, separated by layers of mudstones and shales - - a name commonly applied to such a geological feature is “cyclothem” and cyclothems represent natural depositional cycles).

Special frequencies and light waves coming from the pyramid? Bring on the woo…

Further evidence in favor of the pyramid comes from Harry Oldfield, an enthusiast in New Age energy crystals and aura photography. He took video of Visočica using a camera that digitally replaces colors, to which he gives the scientific-sounding name Polycontrast Interference Photography, and which he claims provides a "real time, moving image of the energy field." Technically, replacing colors just alters the visual image, it does not change the fact that the camera is capturing only visual data. Osmanagić, who refers to Oldfield as Dr. Oldfield for reasons known only to himself, analyzed this video and stated:

..The energy fields are vertical, as opposed to horizontal, which is the case with naturally occurring hills. In contrast to natural phenomena where the energy fields are fixed, these electromagnetic fields are pulsating and non-homogenous. The Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun is in fact acting like a giant energy accumulator which continually emits large quantities of energy. It is the proverbial perpetuum mobile, which got its start in the distant past and continues its activity without respite.

In Oldfield's color replacement video, brightness gradients in the sky appear as different colored bands, as is fairly obvious from a glance at the video. In explaining how he chose which colors to replace with which, Oldfield says "Some clairvoyants and mystics with their gifts helped me develop some of the filters in PIP which simulate what they see." If you understand what simple color replacement means, you should be able to judge for yourself the validity of Oldfield's video as proof that Visočica is a man-made pyramid.

skeptoid.com...

Humans are a driven species. If there were really Pyramids there you could bet that after 10 years of exclaiming so, we would be seeing them by now. In fact, they`d have been uncovered within weeks.

I haven't even heard of Semir still running this scheme, although I think he still does his round of Indiana Jones-esque speaking engagements around the world. It seems like now it's just the alternative new bandwagon to rehash this stuff for user-followers.

Of course none are offering a two sided opinion on it, one person that was there in the beginning and has consistently covered the issue, and consistently disseminated information Semir didn't want public, was recently interviewed for an alternative news site, but they cut their interview since it wasn't positive.

No matter if you wholeheartedly believe in cover-ups or conspiracy or what have you (very generalized), you should not omit information from your presentations. Simply dismissing or ignoring any opinion that doesn't fit your agenda is the same thing that others complain the establishment is doing.

Q: Let’s get straight to the heart of the matter: why were these constructions not discovered “until 2005”? Let’s recall that their discoverer, Semir Osmanagic, was a Bosniak-born businessman living in Houston, USA. He presents himself as holding a doctorate in anthropology... after which things get rather unclear.

Irna : Certainly, Semir Osmanagic does have a doctorate, but the thesis he defended at the University of Sarajevo, following studies in economics and political science, was a sociology thesis. He is, therefore, neither an anthropologist nor an archaeologist, and, prior to the discovery of the “pyramids” in 2005, had never even participated in an archaeological excavation. He had made tourist visits to various pre-Columbian pyramids in Central America, which supplied him with the material for a series of short book: but, lacking any scientific content, these are more travelogues than anything else. For the last two years, he has described himself as "Professor of Anthropology" at a small private university in Bosnia (the American University in Bosnia and Herzegovina, AUBiH), although, curious to relate, that university does not offer any courses in either anthropology or archaeology...

irna.lautre.net...

Q: In an attempt to defend his position, Osmanagic has cited several pieces of evidence. Could you tell us more about these?

A) Presence of superior-quality concrete

A) Irna: According to every professional geologist who has examined the substance, what Mr. Osmanagic calls "concrete" is actually "pudding stone", that is, a natural conglomerate of debris consisting of relatively rounded pieces of rock, bonded together by a calcitic/dolomitic matrix. This conglomerate was formed several million years ago in the lake that once occupied the area where today we see only hills. At that remote epoch, when the whole of the region was being geologically uplifted, there was a very active process of erosion, and the rivers surrounding the lake deposited huge amounts of debris, of varying degrees of coarseness, which then lithified (lithification being the process in which sediment turns into rock), becoming sandstone or marl in the case of finer debris, or conglomerate in the case of the coarser debris.

Mr. Osmanagic claims that geologists are wrong, and that "scientific analyses have proven" that the substance was concrete. However, several of these analytical reports have never seen the light of day. This is the case, for example, with an analysis supposedly carried out ​​by the Polytechnic Institute of Turin, which, to the best of my knowledge, has yet to be seen by anyone at all. Admittedly, there are other analytical reports, but none of them contains any conceivable proof that the substance under discussion is concrete. For example, Civil Engineering Institutes of Bosnia, having tested the properties of the material, have confirmed that it is indeed very strong, but their reports say not one word about the origin of the substance, and whether it is natural or artificial. Mr. Osmanagic also relies on an analytical report by Professor Davidovits, a geopolymer specialist. But, although Professor Davidovits tested a fragment, sent by Mr. Osmanagic himself, it had not come from any of the “pyramids” – and Professor Davidovits recently blogged on his website that: "the information published on the Bosnian Pyramids websites are inaccurate." It must also somehow have slipped Mr. Osmanagic’s mind that there was a further analytical report, the work of another geopolymer specialist, from Drexel University (who, incidentally, was working on the theory that the blocks of the Great Pyramid of Khufu were moulded), who concluded that there was no possibility that the samples of conglomerate sent to him from Visoko for study had any artificial origin (see pp 130-134 [151-155 of the PDF]).

Pretty sure Irna covers all the points in the source article. Perhaps they were the site that was trying to interview before realizing it didn't fit in with what they were pushing.

You can find it all here:

irna.lautre.net...

Good read.

reply to post by anon72


9) Tunnel System

E) Irna: The “Ravne” tunnel system is probably the only genuine archaeological site "discovered" by Semir Osmanagic (it was actually known before his time, although no one had ever thought of clearing it). The tunnel presents many points of great interest, with a complex plan, the existence of a drain in some areas, the presence of drystone walls along some tunnel walls, and evidence of the deliberately backfilling of many galleries. Most of these features are characteristic of an old mine (e.g., the plugging of abandoned galleries with waste rock - sediment lacking any mineral content - to prevent accidental collapses within them), a surmise reinforced by some of the findings mentioned in the 2012 report by the Italian archaeologist Riccardo Brett (pages 34-36, and page 40): marks on the walls left by picks, wheelmarks, niches stained with soot, the discovery of an eighteenth century oil lamp...

Semir Osmanagic, of course, is insistent that it cannot be a mine, but must be a much older tunnel linked to the "pyramids". However, the hypothesis of a secondary gold deposit (a “paleo-placer”) is entirely consistent with the local geology (see Light at the end of the tunnel? on my site). Unfortunately, the methodology employed by the Foundation in excavating this tunnel is likely to jeopardize any chance of ever learning more about its age and function: the excavators dig pell-mell in the general direction of the “Pyramid of the Sun”; the galleries are widened and "reconstructed" to facilitate tourist visits; the excavated sedimentary material is not sieved to recover any small artefacts; no stratigraphic study on the digging and backfilling sequences has been carried out; etc. etc...

Light at the end of the tunnel.


8) Sacred Landscape

In fact, very many hills in the region do have vaguely triangular or trapezoidal sides, the result of valleys hollowed out through sedimentary terrain uplifted and folded in various places since the end of the Tertiary. Half a dozen professional geologists have carried out field research on these hills, and published reasonably detailed reports containing exhaustive explanations for the appearance of the local landscape (see for example the 2006 report by Dr. Amer Smailbegovic). I have published a brief summary of the geology and geomorphology of the area on my site, and I have also included a similar account in a short book to be published soon in the "Une chandelle dans les ténèbres" [“A candle in the darkness”] collection, available from the publisher Book-e-book. Readers wanting to know more will find a number of additional links on this page.

G) Irna: The triangle is equilateral provided that you don’t fuss too much about precision, or the location of the points of the triangle (which, contrary to what is shown on the documents from the Foundation, are not situated on the actual hilltops). Also, as I said earlier, the area is full of hills whose slopes are vaguely triangular or trapezoidal. What would be more surprising, in my opinion, would be the absence of a more or less regular equilateral triangle formed by three peaks in this area!

Links


7) Electromagnetic and Ultrasonic Emissions

D) Irna: Research into various EM or ultrasound phenomena on the "pyramid" is relatively recent, and appears to be the result of Mr. Osmanagic’s inability to produce any archaeological evidence. In the absence of artifacts, and traces of the mysterious civilization that he believes to have been responsible for the construction of the "pyramids", he tries to find "evidence" from other disciplines, in this case, physics. Unfortunately, considerable confusion reigns over what is published by the Foundation or other independent "researchers". For example, many of the individuals engaged in discussing these questions systematically confuse electromagnetic waves with mechanical waves (sound), making it very difficult to know exactly what has been measured. Moreover, none of these measurements has been published with a serious and reproducible protocol, despite this being one of the most basic tenets of scientific methodology. How exactly is one meant to place reliance on a "physicist" who professes to measure EM waves with a plate wrapped in aluminium foil? Or on an “explorer" who claims to have measured a precise ultrasonic frequency, and the origin of that frequency, with a heterodyne bat detector, when the manufacturers themselves confirm that such a feat is well beyond the capabilities of the device?

Read more...

reply to post by boncho


An extremely well put together rebuttal that contains more legitimate information in a few paragraphs than ole Sammi has put out in the past decade. I thinks it's certainly possible that portions of these hills were modified by humans at one point or another for ritual purposes or defensive positions but even that is questionable. There is no doubt in my mind that Sammi is the equivalent of a Bosnian Graham Hancock who may actually believe his own B.S. but has no problem counting his bag of money at the end of the day while smiling about al the fools he duped.

peter vlar
There is no doubt in my mind that Sammi is the equivalent of a Bosnian Graham Hancock who may actually believe his own B.S. but has no problem counting his bag of money at the end of the day while smiling about al the fools he duped.

No comparison between Hancock who actually delivers on many points and funds costly research expeditions to the places he writes about.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Ill definitely concede that Graham is aces about funding his own research as opposed to the crowd sourcing tactics often utilized by less genuine people of his ilk. One of the guitar players I used to jam with turned me onto him about 10 years ago and I was pretty into what he w postulating, until I did my due diligence and realized he was just a fluff and buff. Though I did enjoy his work regarding Ayuhuasca and you can't really tear apart someone's personal experiences like I can his archaeological and geological errors. I hesitate to call him an outright fraud or money grubber so he probably wasn't my best choice for comparison and could have used someone like Icke to make my point. Like I said in my earlier comparison, I think Graham truly believes what he writes about and researches, I just can't help but get a little irritated at just how wrong he can be sometimes no matter how well intended he is. O the other hand after having been out of school for awhile it was nice to be able to touch up my research skills. Even if it was to debunk several of Graham's claims. Samir in the other hand has n regard for proper excavation technique and if there ever was any evidence at the site he's likely destroyed the majority of it with his nineteenth century archaeological revival excavations. It's sad because he helps make legitimate scientists, archaeologists and anthropologists look like fools and just adds fuel to the fire for those that believe "mainstream science" is holding back or suppressing the true knowledge of our past for the benefits of TPTB or to maintain their own research funding because they don't want to rock the boat. Little do they know most people in those fields dream of the day they can not just rock the boat but capsize it with a world altering paradigm changing find.

reply to post by peter vlar

I thinks it's certainly possible that portions of these hills were modified by humans at one point or another for ritual purposes or defensive positions but even that is questionable.

Legitimate archaeological sites in that area are common. Dating back to the bronze age. Sadly Semirs efforts at pseudo-archaelogy (archaeology not being a field he is trained in) damaged the area enough to voice concern by the nation's scientist who are in the field.

Because this fiasco brought so much money into the region, one of the politicians of the town was quotes as saying:

A Visoko municipal off icial recently
announced that all critics of Osmanagic’s
project should be denied access to research
locations and have their degrees revoked

www.johnbohannon.org...

Very sad indeed when criticism elicits this type of response or rhetoric. Money clearly talks.

reply to post by boncho


The attitude of the local officials is an unfortunate byproduct of their economy being shredded in the 90's during their civil war and anything that brings tourism into the area they naturally don't want to do anything that would negatively affect that because less money going to local businesses means less tax dollars to skim from the coffers. It really is sad that Samir had no idea what he was doing and brought in heavy machinery to "speed up" the excavation process which is the exact opposite of how an excavation works. Slow and diligent keeps you from destroying artifacts or geological evidence, which if any evidence existed he has destroyed it in spades. As someone who went to school for anthropology it makes my stomach turn thinking about how he makes professional scientists look like fools, at least to his legion of followers, and further encourages them to believe that he knows the real truth and the rest of science is trying to suppress said truth from the world to satisfy TPTB or protect their own research grants etc...

boncho
This is all the same rehashed junk as before.

There are various explanations or simply basic reasoning skills that contradict all the claims made by Semir. Robert Schoch, an archaeologist that has in interest in parapsychology and other fringe topics, himself went to the site and determined it was not man made.

www.robertschoch.com...

I maintain my conviction that there are NO pyramids at Visoko, Bosnia. Rather, all the so-called pyramids are the result of natural geological processes and phenomena that are currently being “excavated” (i.e., modified) to look like pyramids.

A Couple of other Comments:

Many non-geologists have been impressed by the “regularity” of certain features at Visoko, and from these regularities have argued that they cannot be natural, but rather must be manmade. One should realize that geology is full of regularities, from the precise forms of mineral crystals, to the common occurrence of cyclical sedimentation (which at Visoko accounts for the regularity of the sandstone layers occurring at intervals on the order of a meter in many places, separated by layers of mudstones and shales - - a name commonly applied to such a geological feature is “cyclothem” and cyclothems represent natural depositional cycles).

Boncho,
I really appreciate your post, I do, but I'm compelled to point out that Schoch is a Geophysicist, not an Archaeologist.

Schoch understands Archaeology about as much as I understand Urdu, which is to say not at all.

Harte

reply to post by Harte

Boncho,
I really appreciate your post, I do, but I'm compelled to point out that Schoch is a Geophysicist, not an Archaeologist.

Schoch understands Archaeology about as much as I understand Urdu, which is to say not at all.

Harte

Schoch is probably a bad example for other reasons. In any case, Geophysics is still more relevant than Semir's background of Sociology, economics and political sciences. Making him much more qualified than Semir.

Archaeologists and geologists have travelled to Visoko and determined it was natural formations. Not many wanted to put there name on anything however, as Semir was using people's reputations without their authorization previously, misquoting, or simply paying off people to come and hang out.

irna.lautre.net...

First off I for one believe they are either artificial or were modified by ancient people so to me they are indeed pyramid's,.
Second, this steps on a lot and I mean a lot of toe's here as there are many object's and formation's which have been regarded as ambiguous or even artificial in the past only for there date to be found to be TOO OLD to be acceptable as let's be fair, You are a university professor of anthropology or archeaology and even though your credential's would truly have you regarded as a pseudo scientist in regard to the rigor and standard's of any other field such as medicine, physics or chemistry you are the one with the large museum funding your position so they have to tow the line weather they like it or not.
I won't get into the story's about how museum MISPLACE or FILE AWAY anomolous objects so that hardly a fraction of them ever see the light of day at best or how those artifacts are destroyed at worst but this kind of find will render so many text book's about ancient culture obsolete and wrong that it is simply going to be resisted at ever turn and will likley still be argued about in 50 years so we know, you know, we have our opinions and supporting evidence and you sceptoids have your's so let's agree to disagree and stop calling it BS when it is anything but.

boncho
reply to post by Harte

 

Boncho,
I really appreciate your post, I do, but I'm compelled to point out that Schoch is a Geophysicist, not an Archaeologist.

Schoch understands Archaeology about as much as I understand Urdu, which is to say not at all.

Harte

Schoch is probably a bad example for other reasons. In any case, Geophysics is still more relevant than Semir's background of Sociology, economics and political sciences. Making him much more qualified than Semir.

Archaeologists and geologists have travelled to Visoko and determined it was natural formations. Not many wanted to put there name on anything however, as Semir was using people's reputations without their authorization previously, misquoting, or simply paying off people to come and hang out.

irna.lautre.net...

All too true. Schoch has very little credibility in my book - thus the statement about his "knowledge" of Archaeology.

Irna posts here and at unexplained mysteries. I've read all her stuff you linked.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Dr Schoch is the guy who dated the sphinx at 20,000 yrs old or so......much older than the great pyramid....
Zahi Hawass hates him so I think he may have something there....
Who better to look at the Bosnian pyramids and call them natural features??his specialty I believe....so why the doubt to his ability?

reply to post by stirling


I did not know this. Interesting.

Thank you all for your input.

I am trying to find more video of the interior finds and tunnels but not much luck.

The wife said NO WAY.

stirling
reply to post by Harte

 

Dr Schoch is the guy who dated the sphinx at 20,000 yrs old or so......much older than the great pyramid....
Zahi Hawass hates him so I think he may have something there....
Who better to look at the Bosnian pyramids and call them natural features??his specialty I believe....so why the doubt to his ability?

Schoch's analysis of the subsurface weathering at the sphinx does not support his claims, for one thing.

Schoch's claim is that the front of the sphinx is the original carving, with the rear having been carved in the 4th Dynasty or so. He bases this claim on the depth of subsurface weathering in the front being greater than in the rear. Yet, if you examine Schoch's data, his readings indicate (using the method that Schoch himself lays out for estimating age differences via subsurface weathering) that the sides (yes, both of them) are even older than the front!

A bit much, if you ask me. Not to mention that the greatest and most obvious above ground weathering of the sphinx enclosiure occurs at the rear of the sphinx.

Schoch has it right on Yonaguni and Bosnia, though, and several other sites he's examined.

Harte

They don't need people with shovels they need people with marketing skills. That's how to bring money in

reply to post by anon72


ive been watching this and have yet to see any updates or announcements other than the website calling for volunteers in 2014..... $$$$$$$$$$$$$$