I seek truth yet it remains hidden..going bananas looking for the right religion (Help me)....

reply to post by Rtardx


IMPORTANT
Riouz is right. If you really are feeling suicidal, please tell a responsible adult close to you about it now. We don't want to lose you.

*

Now, about your search for something to believe in: are you prepared to abandon reason in the pursuit of faith?

If you are not, you can search the dusty corners of the cosmos till the last photon winks out, and you will still find nothing to believe in.

Most religious thinkers realise this, but they don't let on, even to themselves. Martin Luther was one of the few honest ones: he called Reason a whore. By the way, Luther was also the first person in modern times to make Metallicus's point about there being no need for a middleman between God and the individual. Whatever Metallicus's faith may be, his advice is essential Protestant doctrine. It is not shared by all faiths or even by all Christian traditions and it isn't automatically right, though most non-Catholic Americans would like the sound of it because Protestant individualism is so deeply embedded in American capitalist culture.

I am curious to know why you so categorically reject atheism. I should have thought that your dissatisfaction with so many belief systems would have led to towards the conclusion that there is no true religion. Is it because you fear damnation? Until you get over that fear you cannot be free to make religious choices; the hellfire Protestantism into which (I suspect) you were born will not let you go.

Perhaps part of the problem is the idea that religion is something that can be chosen, like a brand of cereal off a supermarket shelf. Religion is not like that at all. Getting religion is more like falling in love: it's not something you cause to happen, at least not consciously; it's something that happens to you.

Personally, though, I think religion is often the frightened man's (or woman's) way out. I believe you are coming to the same conclusion.

Well, your in the unlucky shoes(actually lucky by historic standards) to pick your own God and religion, much like the beginning of a pokemon, game where you pick fire, water, and grass.The only difference these days is you won't get butchered or hanged for it.

Really, questions are more important then answers, for answers could be just thrown in your face, like it was change. The wrong questions could lead to dead ends, or just half truths.

The right questions will always lead to truth(which is VERY general these days). However, what are those questions, that something that someone has to figure themselves.

reply to post by Astyanax

Now, about your search for something to believe in: are you prepared to abandon reason in the pursuit of faith?

Asty, your own faith is completely invested in Reason. There's no need to abandon reason, and yet reason itself is just one tool of life and experience. Besides reason, there is also love, intuition, direct experience of reality is prior to all reason. Let's keep that in mind.

If you are not, you can search the dusty corners of the cosmos till the last photon winks out, and you will still find nothing to believe in.

That quote is said with the assumptions that OP would have to choose to believe in something. There are also a number of paths that include meditation, mantra, self inquiry and a number of practices that lead to direct experiences of Truth, Self, transcendence, etc. Direct experience is prior to belief, reason, conceptualization, etc.

I am curious to know why you so categorically reject atheism. I should have thought that your dissatisfaction with so many belief systems would have led to towards the conclusion that there is no true religion.

I was once an atheist, and I left that confined construct when I was approached by someone who said that absolute Truth can be directly experienced. Considering "direct experience" of life and reality are already the priori-default mechanism for us all, I began to question my atheism and hardened skepticism, and instead be completely open to any possibility.

Perhaps part of the problem is the idea that religion is something that can be chosen, like a brand of cereal off a supermarket shelf. Religion is not like that at all. Getting religion is more like falling in love: it's not something you cause to happen, at least not consciously; it's something that happens to you.

That sounds like you are putting limits on reality. Religions can be looked at and chosen like food off a menu. I have been studying them in such a way for the past 15 years or so. Each one has interesting themes, ideas, constructs, some of which are universal, others which are relative. Many universalists & philosophers approach religion this way.

Personally, though, I think religion is the frightened man's (or woman's) way out.

For some yes it is.

In reality, most religions are giant constructs that have a core esoteric truth, wrapped in an outer exoteric shell.

They are pretty much universally (on the esoteric core level) pointing towards absolute truth and enlightenment, which is always found within you. How you go about finding and accessing this, has as many unique ways as there are people in existence and all those who have ever and will ever exist.

OP, you can start with the thread in my signature. Just about covers everything you brought up in this thread.

reply to post by Rtardx


My friend, there is no one true Religion, all of them are, as another poster said, different paths to the same goal, and the differences mainly exist simply to cater to particular social and cultural bents of specific groups. For instance, if you want to bring someone to love of music, then for people like goths, you might use death metal, for hippies the grateful dead etc etc for barbie girls katie perry, but the end goal is the same: love of music, so the different paths to that goal are only different with respect to what group they are aiming at, and that is why different people have given slightly altered maps up the mountain to God, because not everyone starts from the same point, with the same view of the mountain and with the same obstacles to overcome on the way up. Now, saying that, I must point out that all religions are in some way or another, imitations, recreations, and spiritual children of Advaita Vedanta/Sanatana Dharma (commonly known as hinduism or vaisnavism, although this modern pantheistic worshipping of carven idols hinduism is NOT NOT NOT what I mean, nor what the original proprietors of this system intended - as is usually the case with religions) Advaita Vedanta means: Ved - knowledge - Anta - end of - A - not - Dvaita - two. So it means: The end/climax of all knowledge is that there is not two, but one. And this is the ultimate truth.. now

A previous poster said this:
"Don't go for any pre-packaged belief system. Be original. Do you own thinking. Take in everything you can and make up your own mind. That's what it means to be Enlightened. It means thinking for yourself and having the courage and integrity to stand by those ideas as well as being accountable for them."

First of all Enlightenment does not mean this, no. Enlightenment means to be en-lightened, made lighter, to have the weight of the misery of the world and life lifted from you, and to do this you must realize through personal experience, the truth that there is no seperateness, no division. Now this realization cannot come from A) Sutamaya Panna (Wisdom from hearing and reading) Neither can it come from B) Cintamaya Pannna (Wisdom from understanding on an intellectual level) that is why you have sought and sought endlessly and never found, because the lifting of the weight of misery can only come from the third part of wisdom (or Panna as the Buddha called it) C) Bhavanamaya Panna (Wisdom from personal experience) And so for the moment it doesnt matter what the ultimate truth is, because you are not in a position to directly experience it, and so it is not the truth for you. The path of Bhavanamaya Panna must go from moment to moment as the immediate truth as experienced by the psychosomatic phenomena you call 'me' and that truth may even be something so simple as 'I'm cold right now' but the more you do two things the more you come closer to experiencing that unity of experience called Advaita Vedanta, and those two things are 1 Be aware, now you cannot force awareness you cannot create imaginary awareness out of the mind, just simply be aware as often as you can of all that you experience as the direct truth relating to you in each given moment, and the first is meaningless without the second: 2 Remain in equanimity with all that you experience, neither liking this nor disliking that, knowing that nothing but That Advaita Vedanta is truly eternal, and therefore to react with pleasure or dislike to any impermanent phenomena is simply foolish because it will dissipate just as surely as it arises, day night day night hot cold hot cold. Simply observe, simply observe and dont react with either like or dislike, Aware. Equanimous. This is the path to en-lighten-ment.

Now, Sanatana Dharma is slightly different, Dharma means Law, Truth, Nature and sometimes Religion, and Sanatana means Eternal, so Sanatana Dharma is The Eternal Law or The Eternal Nature, and as opposed to being one organized religion, it encompasses all religious teachings that can be seen to be eternal laws, and this includes science as well. I will use the example of karma. Karma is often understood as, do good things and good things happen and vice versa, while this is true, its not exactly what karma is, karma is simply the law that each action has a resultant effect which equals the first action in propensity or momentum or strength. This has been explained by the Buddha, By the ancient indian traditions and also by Jesus 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto yourself' It was also noticed by Isaac Newton as the third law of motion, each action has an equal (in nature) and opposite (in momentum) reaction. Now obviously its not possible that the Buddha, Jesus, The ancient Brahmins and Isaac Newton had contact with each other to discuss this point, so we must infer that through personal experience (Bhavanamaya Panna) each of these men, from vastly different cultural and religious backgrounds, noticed this to be an eternal law of the universe, and therefore it qualifies as Sanatana Dharma.

There is not one true religion, but all religions are the children of ancient Hinduism (Branching into Sikhism Jainism and Buddhism and the million and one modern denominations of Hinduism) There is one ultimate truth: that there is only ONE, there is no seperateness or division between entities, that ONE is the substance and essence of consciousness, fully aware and is awareness itself and remains wholly in equanimity to the universe, neither favouring this nor hating that, therefore by practicing the twin principles of Awareness and Equanimity one may gradually approach Godhead and the more you progress along that path of personal experiences the more those experiences lift the misery of ignorance from you and you become lighter and lighter until you are en-lighten-ed and full of joy. There is no hatred by that Ultimate Consciousness of those who sin or those who do not follow the path. It is simply that by acting in accordance with the fact that there is no seperateness (and therefore knowing that what you do for another you do for yourself) will bring us to happiness, and acting against that law will bring us misery, this is why all the religions say do not kill do not steal etc, there is no punishment in eternal hell by some judgemental God. You get the punishment the second you go against unity, because when you kill, you kill yourself, when you steal, you steal from yourself etc.

Do not despair at your conditions my friend, for that is not a state of equanimity. By despairing that you cant find ultimate truth you are actually forfeiting ultimate truth. Remain in a state of equanimous joy, a joy regardless of all changing corporeal phenomena. And remain aware of these phenomena as long as they last, for how else can you keep yourself in check that you are remaining equanimous.

I urge you to read the Bhagavad Gita, The Srimad Bhagavatam, The Yoga Sutras (Satchidananda edition) And Meher Baba's Discourses. But again, reading these books will only come under the first two sections of Wisdom/Panna (pronounced panya) Sutamaya and Cintamaya. While these two are valuable in their own right, they can become a hindrance and must be backed up with personal experience of the truths pertaining to you at each given moment, again, that truth may even be 'right now i am reading about truths which i do not yet have the capacity to experience' but that is the truth of THAT moment for YOU. I would say that if you are ready to become a bum and go wandering looking for the ultimate truth, then you would be perfectly prepared to give up 10 days of your life for some Bhavanamaya Panna? If so then I really would recommend you take a 10 day Vipassana Meditation course with S.N Goenka. The retreats are at locations all over the globe, completely free, it is a non-profit organization, entirely non-sectarian simply dedicated to teaching you the method of Vipassana Meditation (The Buddha's technique, and I will say, while I am technically Hindu, I do think that this is the only real and genuine form of meditation, or at least the most potent) The courses are hard work, but no more hard work than becoming a travelling hobo. Here's a link to the international site: www.dhamma.org...

Oh and before you start thinking I'm in some way related to these courses and trying to push it on people, thats not true, I'm just a 19 year old guy from scotland who found himself in a very similar position to you, and in a a very similar fashion to this, someone let me know about these courses, and being interested in meditation i thought 'Hey, why not' Having completed a course I feel like i have found the missing piece of the puzzle that i have been searching for for so many years. And this is a perfect way to get some direct experience of true spirituality.


Much love my friend and I sincerely hope you find your way


Hari Krishna!

reply to post by Lotuschild

Nice Post LotusChild.

May I highly recommend to you, "Mahasi Style Noting" to actually break through and access all of which you refer to in your post.

HIGHLY recommended!!!!!!

Imaginary friends like God, Santa Claus, Jesus and the Easter Bunny are for children.

Organized Religions, all of them, are comparable to Organized Crime.

Find what makes you happy. That should be easy.

If you want to confide in an all knowing all powerful Universal presence, you don't need religion for that.

No single human or group of humans can guide you or know you better than you know yourself.

KnightLight
reply to post by Rtardx

 

Know Thyself.
Live NOW.
Then you meet God.


That is all.
And anything else is a stretch
(circling around truth but never getting there)

Religion is for followers, not for truth seekers.

I was just about ro reply but knightlight sums it all up.

reply to post by wdkirk

No single human or group of humans can guide you or know you better than you know yourself.

every single human and all groups of humans have been and always remain as my teachers. Whenever I have thought that I truly do know myself, someone has come into my life, or I've witnessed children do or say things, that have completely upended everything that I thought I knew about myself.

There are people out there who have Enlightenment and do know you better than you know yourself, and can guide you to the Source.

reply to post by dominicus

Asty, your own faith is completely invested in Reason. There's no need to abandon reason, and yet reason itself is just one tool of life and experience. Besides reason, there is also love, intuition, direct experience of reality is prior to all reason. Let's keep that in mind.

Oh, no, an argument. Or is it a sermon?

That quote is said with the assumptions that OP would have to choose to believe in something. There are also a number of paths that include meditation, mantra, self inquiry and a number of practices that lead to direct experiences of Truth, Self, transcendence, etc. Direct experience is prior to belief, reason, conceptualization, etc.

Just glance up at the top of the page, dominicus. See the thread title? That bit here about 'going bananas looking for the right religion (help me)?' I'm just trying to be helpful.

I was once an atheist, and I left that confined construct when I was approached by someone who said that absolute Truth can be directly experienced...

I was asking the OP why he or she so categorically rejects atheism. If I was curious as to your reasons, I would surely have asked you.

That sounds like you are putting limits on reality. Religions can be looked at and chosen like food off a menu.

Bon appetit. Are you equally good at choosing when and with whom to fall in love, by the way? Now that would be really useful.

reply to post by Astyanax

Oh, no, an argument. Or is it a sermon?

a sharing, a trading, an exchange, openness ensues to all relative views.

Just glance up at the top of the page, dominicus. See the thread title? That bit here about 'going bananas looking for the right religion (help me)?' I'm just trying to be helpful.

OF course, your point of view expressed is just as entitled to be expressed as mine.

I was asking the OP why he or she so categorically rejects atheism. If I was curious as to your reasons, I would surely have asked you.

OP mirrored my own reasons for rejection of atheism, a variety of unexplained mystical experiences that transcend reason and point to more.

Bon appetit. Are you equally good at choosing when and with whom to fall in love, by the way? Now that would be really useful.

Yes, definitely there is the free will to choose to love or not, who to love and when, all within the confines of who, when, and where the opportunity presents itself.

I was born, bred and raised strict Catho-holic. CCD, CYO and even an alterboy. My parents and all of my brothers and sisters still practice religiously.
Like you, in my younger years, I too could not grasp their beliefs. It didn't make sense to me how one belief system could be the only truth when so many others said it was wrong and thiers was right. It screwed with my head to the point that I started to believe that life was a stage and I was the star and the audience. Everything and everyone else was nothing but a figment of my imagination. Which, needless to say, started to turn me into a rebel and gaining more and more a lack of compassion for others.

I can't remember whose pants I was trying to get into at the time but ended up going to this gal's church with her (..the things we men will do to get that prize...or have to pay for it.). It was the 'UNITY' church, not to be confused with the Unitarian church, two completely different animals. This church is a non-demon-ational church and don't care if your a freak or a holy roller.

Anyways, while sitting there, biding my time, this woman minister started talking about the story of 'David and Goliath'. Oh how many times have I heard this fairytale about some kid hitting this giant with a rock right between the eyes and it ended all wars and everybody lived happlily ever after..right. But this time, the minister put a little bit more detail to the story. She explained about the Roman Army, at that time, was the most feared force to be reckoned with in the world and were up against an enemy that had this secret weapon that was unstoppable, a Giant!

Now you have to remember the elite Roman Centurion was the meanest, baddest, s.o.b. there was. I can't remember exactly, but he was so many hands high and so many stones weight which was equivalent to 5'4"-5'8" tall and about 185lbs. Goliath on the other hand stood between 7 and 9ft. If we saw this in today's world, the Roman would be a stocky soldier and the 'giant' would be a tall basketball player.

Now there's David, some kid with some meaningless job watching sheep with nothing better to do but throw rocks. He got tired of this thug beating up on his people and decided to help. He was offered a sword, a shield and a spear to slay this big person but all he knew how to do was watch sheep and throw rocks.

Moral to the story - Believe only in yourself and do what you do best and you will slay the beast that torments you. All those years growing up hearing this story and it never had much of a meaning other than a story.

Apologize for dragging this on but this turned on a lightbulb. I went back to this church and learned of an Omnipotent power, call this power what you want, God, Allah, Johovah, Budda or Bubba. Doesn't matter, they're all the same and all of everybody's writings are all related.

I now live in a very rural area and the closest UNITY church is 70 miles away so I don't visit anymore. But I've never looked at the UNITY church as a church per say, I think of churches as crutches to hold you up. I've always felt of it like going to a seminar.

Everybody's post are all good but after I read them, they seemed to be a step or two beyond where you are now and you would like to know what the heck they're talking about. It's hard to read what you feel. To be at peace with yourself cannot be described in words.

You can only be at peace with yourself not by what others say but with how you feel. There's different strokes for different folks. This was mine. I sincerely wish you the best on your venture, just keep in mind that life is nothing but a learning experience.

(I have just got to add-)
Since you got so many riddles from everyone else, I might as well add mine-

Who's number '1' and who takes care of number '1'?
Two questions, same answer. If you believe in this, you can take care of the world!

reply to post by wdkirk


What of Krishna? Rama? Caitanya? Prabhupada? Easwaran? The Buddha(s)? What of Ramakrishna? What of S.N Goenka? Of Meister Eckhart? Of Swami Vivekananda? What of Aldous Huxley? What of Confucius? Plato? Bet you know nothing about these people. All too often I find that people who are expressly 'Atheist' are actually just dissilusioned with the vastly misinterpreted materialistic version of ritual evangelistic Christianity, and actually know nothing of any other Religions or traditions of Spirituality.


Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. If you can tell me what God is, THEN and ONLY then, can you claim (he/she/it/neither) doesn't exist. But no one ever claimed (him/her/it/neither) to be a big bearded man in the sky controlling everything. MAYBE, just MAYBE its a tad deeper and more profound than that, huh? That seems to be something that both hardcore Atheists and hardcore Abrahamics have completely forgotten.

A few bad apples spoil the bunch. Maybe, but only to a f***ing idiot who can't pick out the good ones. Just because some so-called "Christians" (or church officials) Have murdered, raped, embezzled, laundered, lied, are you just going to throw out the ENTIRE spiritual traditions of mankind just because of these few idiots who clearly dont practice what they preach? To me that seems a bit ignorant. Neither the members of the church of richard dawkins Atheists, nor the members of the landover baptist, westboro baptist, al-quaeda advocates of misinterpreted Abrahamic faiths have understood the traditions and wisdom that they belong to. Just because i think richard dawkins is an idiot, does that mean i'm not going to listen to a SINGLE Atheistic/Agnostic viewpoint? No, because that would be ridiculous. Sir Ken Robinson for example, a very reasonable man, an Atheist, but a LOGICAL, REASONABLE atheist, while I don't agree with his views, he presents them in such a way that I have to at least respect them. And in the same breath, just because of the ignorance that has been perpetrated in the name of of "religion" does that mean you should completely abandon seeking a deeper meaning in life? And wait a minute... people have been giving us useful hints and study materials for thousands of years. They're called the Holy Texts of the Worlds Religions. People have varying opinions on mathematics too, and if a mathematician came out with a ridiculously illogical point, or does something against the laws of mathematics, do you then become "Amathematical" ? or do you simply reason that this person has grossly misunderstood what he claims to know? And try and further your own understanding of that field in order to make sure you dont make the same mistake?



P.S thankyou dominicus I will make sure to do some research

P.P.S Just reading some of the bottom posts and actually a lot of what I have said had already been covered. Sorry guys and well done for your lucidly put points which I am vastly in agreement with. I hope I had some new input as well though.. I think I did

InhaleExhale
reply to post by Rtardx

 

I seek the truth because i fear the unknown.

well then you fear the truth then don't you?

I'm afraid of the dark.

Are you afraid when you close your eyes?

Yes to both.

reply to post by EviLCHiMP


Thanks guys you are really shedding some light here.

Hi friend,

Once you learn to express the world, the universe, or whatever it is you feel like contemplating, in your own language, in your own terms, in your own artistic manner, without the need to adhere to someone else's expression, you will overpower every religion, every dogma and every system set before you.

Letting go of the dogma that there is some "hidden truth" behind things is a good start. Nothing has ever shown that this is the case. There is more falsity than truth in the world. It's time to create some more.

Good luck.

Rtardx
Debate, Advise, and discuss with me. I only seek truth.

Meditate on "I Am". When you go to pay your taxes, buy your groceries and taking out the garbage, focus on "I Am".
This is the 'fastest' way I know.
And remember: All I offer is the truth

reply to post by dominicus

a sharing, a trading, an exchange, openness ensues to all relative views.

You can post yours without trying to tell me where you think mine are wrong.

OF course, your point of view expressed is just as entitled to be expressed as mine.

Good to know.

OP mirrored my own reasons for rejection of atheism, a variety of unexplained mystical experiences that transcend reason and point to more.

If that is the case, I am sure he will tell me so.

Yes, definitely there is the free will to choose to love or not.

Hmm. Convenient. So, can you choose to love someone for a time, and later choose not to love them when you feel like a bit of variety?

Rtardx

InhaleExhale
reply to post by Rtardx

 

I seek the truth because i fear the unknown.

well then you fear the truth then don't you?

I'm afraid of the dark.

Are you afraid when you close your eyes?

Yes to both.

Have you just spoken the truth?

I mean is what you answered really true, if you ask yourself these questions I asked you, would you say "yes to both" to yourself and know you are not lying to yourself?

If so, then you have spoken a truth about yourself.

You said its not about defining yourself but it has to be, you need to define what your beliefs are and in doing so will define who are are or who are to become.

If you know yourself then you will know truth, when spoken that truth will conflict with others

The definition one should strive for is Yes I have my truth and you have yours, lets celebrate our differences instead of debating which is better, true and more civilized.

If you can define yourself as a person that accepts the world around them and is willing to celebrate diversity than NO one, No God , nothing can take that truth away from you.

Love is the answer, but there is a thin line between love and hate.

Take care, don't let depression get a hold, as has been advised speak to someone, make it face to face because here on the net you will find real great information to help you on your journey but in the real world with real interaction when you can see into anothers eyes is when you find something special you can call truth.

reply to post by Rtardx


Try Deism. Belief without all the extraneous garbage.

reply to post by Rtardx


Rtardx... religion can be dangerous. What you want is a relationship...with Christ.
He said that he is the only way to the Father. Not religion. Seek Christ first for there is no other way to eternal life.