I don't want my car driving me!!!!!

I first got behind the wheel of a car when I was 3 years old. It's kind of a funny story... My mom loaded me and my sister into the car, and we were off to see my grandparents. She got halfway up the driveway when she realized that she had forgotten her purse, so she stopped the car, got out, and ran into the house. It was really cold out that day and I didn't want my mom to walk in the cold, so I hoped into the front seat, put it in gear, and drove the car up to the garage for her. I stopped, put it in park, and hopped back into my seat. Mom wasn't impressed!

Now I grew up on a farm and like most farm kids, I started driving the farm truck around the ranch when I was very young. I also had a go-kart that I'd rip up the land with. So driving has been a part of my life for as long as I can remember, and I take it very seriously. It is after all my favorite thing to do. Nothing makes me feel more free than getting behind the wheel and hitting the black top. I'll drive for days, going nowhere in particular just because I can. The thought of having to give up this freedom makes me want to burn the Earth. That might be a bit harsh, but no one is taking away my only joy!

I look at all the technology that is going into cars today and it makes me cringe. The automobile manufactures are intentionally sabotaging my favorite hobby! Blind spot monitors, accident avoidance systems, ABS, vehicle stability control... All these things that make cars "safer" are making drivers less attentive. They are forcing us into automated driving systems by encouraging drivers to NOT DO THEIR JOB!! I mean, why bother turning your head 70 degrees to the right before changing lanes when the computer monitors the lane for you? Who cares how close I am to that bumper in front of me, my accident avoidance will save me from my stupidity. I don't even need to check my oil because that nice lady always speaks through my speakers every 3000 miles to remind me it's time for service. These things are destroying the essence of driving. I see new drivers learning how to drive in these vehicles and they learn how to drive by letting the car make all the important decisions. Then their parents buy them a cheap Honda Civic which doesn't have these systems and the poor new driver doesn't have the skill necessary to handle the car. The next thing you know, people start crying for MORE automation in cars. But we need to face the fact that driving in inherently dangerous and it's up to us to pay attention to what we do behind the wheel.

We need to teach our kids how to drive the old fashioned way; the way I learned. Put the kid in a car at a young age and teach them to respect it. Give them a go-kart to learn how to control a vehicle when it gets out of control. I've never had an accident in my whole life and I've had my licence for 21 years now. I am a good driver because I take it seriously. I know that this 1 ton hunk of steel is dangerous and like all dangerous things I work with, I respect it. We don't have the same appreciation for the car that we had 30 years ago. People don't see driving as a privilege anymore and because of all these systems taking away from driver responsibility is only forcing us into a fully automated system.

I hate it! And I don't normally hate things!

ok, I'm done.

Driving a clutch is becoming a lost art, too. There are many people driving today who can't use a clutch. One car theft was foiled recently because the thieves picked a car with a clutch. I figure if you are really torqued about these "new fangled devices" then there is an easy out. Don't get yourself saddled with a self-driving car. Hang on to an older one for the rest of your life. There's no real reason you cannot. New cars today can easily go hundreds of thousands of miles. I have a 2004 that has 150K on it that drives like a brand new car. There's no doubt in my mind that it could go 500K easily, if not a million as long as I continue to take care of it. Of course that won't be necessary because I'll be long dead.

I don't like it.

I like driving, I own a Classic Dodge Charger 1970's for just that reason.


That being said, the Stats on the Google car driving in traffic are amazing, the one accident they had was when the driver decided to turn it off and drive himself.

The statistics on Teenage drivers alone are staggering, the number of kids that die, not even Adults just teenagers, its one of those things that could be prevented by these technology.

We could live in a world where one day Automotive Accidents are looked at as a tragic time in our history, where technology one day saved us from it.

Now the question is, when will that day be?

Will it be when the last of us Dinosaurs with Big block hearts die off?

It will be a slow adoption process, but its coming, it has its draw backs as it has benefits.

But so does manual driving, any driver impairment can end in death.

Its something to consider.

I actually await this technology.

Soon, the role of the human as a worker, in many tasks, will be eliminated. Don't look at it as being 'lazy' or inpersonable. Look at it as part of our evolution as a species.

Yes, technology is taking over, and we are slowly merging with the machine.

reply to post by QueenofSpades


It will soon be a hackers paradise, as well as an authoritarian governments paradise!

I think a better approach would be to actually educate people on how to drive. Most dont even know what an "apex" is!

I believe that these sorts of intrusions and system instabilities will just revitalize the OBDII cars and prior. Maybe even not quite that recent..

"Classic" cars will be classic for a whole 'nother reason! They wont be directly controllable by the state or remote characters with certain knowledge.

I for one absolutely hate ABS brakes.

If I feel my car sliding a bit on icy roads, I'll control and pump my own brakes (or not) based on feel, instinct, and experience... thank you very much.

reply to post by PollyPeptide


Oh wait... you haven't heard the best one!
The Kia UCD or "user-centered driver" concept at the 2014 International CES features a hand-gesture controller and is already being tested n touted as the next big thing.

just wave your hand and the car starts point at the dash and radio comes on, touch you nose for high beams, left ear tug for left turn signal, god only knows what the car will do if you pick and flick a bugger?

Or god forbid have a driver who's one of those people who just cannot talk without throwing their arms around.
my wife's that way, she's even smacked me upside the head a few times when she's esp animated in her discussion.

Serdgiam
reply to post by QueenofSpades

 

It will soon be a hackers paradise, as well as an authoritarian governments paradise!

I think a better approach would be to actually educate people on how to drive. Most dont even know what an "apex" is!

I believe that these sorts of intrusions and system instabilities will just revitalize the OBDII cars and prior. Maybe even not quite that recent..

"Classic" cars will be classic for a whole 'nother reason! They wont be directly controllable by the state or remote characters with certain knowledge.

Im all for teaching better driving, but racing jargen has no place there.
They don't need to know about the Apex, same as they don't need to know about heel-toe or revmatching.
Personally I think bad drivers just don't take driving as seriously as the good drivers. It's too easy to get a license, so you don't have to care.

Automated driving technology only works if everyting is automated. If there is 1 single human driving among 99 automated cars accidents will happen.

Also.

Optional: Blind Side Assistance *Does not void driver's responsibility*

CranialSponge
I for one absolutely hate ABS brakes.

If I feel my car sliding a bit on icy roads, I'll control and pump my own brakes (or not) based on feel, instinct, and experience... thank you very much.

The insurance industry studied the issue and agrees with you and no longer offers a discount for ABS. But ABS does do one thing well. If you use it properly it helps you crash in a straight line.

reply to post by rangerdanger


Apexing does FAR more than simply reduce lap times.

It provides better gas mileage, better stability through any turn, better and more even tire wear, and puts the driver in a better place should something "unexpected" happen. Its not about the racing, but about learning how to control a vehicle when the road turns. The apex is not only the most efficient way to do this, it is also the safest.

The ability of a driver to follow a line also imbues other techniques that are useful to every day driving, whereas rev-matching and heel-toe driving *do not*. To be able to follow a line, one must also be able to control their vehicle.

Combined with practice driving in extreme conditions (flooding a parking lot to be frozen over, etc), these things could vastly improve safety on the roads.

Its about education, and I will firmly stand on the idea that properly controlling a car is not explicitly "racing" jargon, but should be standard knowledge.

reply to post by PollyPeptide


My mom has a new fangled vehicle with all the gizmos, and she loves to show them off. She never did like my CJ-7 though, until I pointed out that I can pretty much fix my Jeep with the tools I carried in the back and maybe a Advance Auto or Junkyard nearby and small amount of cash.

If something goes wrong on her vehicle, it has to go into the shop for most of the day if not longer...and it always seems to come back with something else wrong with it. Lose panels, hoses not reconnected, etc.

CranialSponge
I for one absolutely hate ABS brakes.

If I feel my car sliding a bit on icy roads, I'll control and pump my own brakes (or not) based on feel, instinct, and experience... thank you very much.

Those damn anti brakes put me through an intersection once, thankfully it was a remote area and there were no other cars, but once I got on the highway, I was afraid to need my brakes again, in case the truck decided that I didn't need them.

That was my first bad experience with them, and I had not known that the truck can decide that brakes aren't needed.
I was going such a slow speed on the snow packed road that I would have stopped without slippage with an older vehicle

reply to post by TDawgRex




An interesting video on the type of issues these technologies can incur. Undoubtedly, they are working on security measures, and they took off the dashboard to.. maybe make it look tough? But, like any computer system, its much easier to find holes than it is to plug them.

Vid is from a thread on here from a bit back.. Cant find it though.

reply to post by snowspirit


ABS sucks!
I had a 2008 Ford 250 Super Duity with ABS.
worked okay as long it was warm and dry I guess but get the breaks wet and it'd lock up all 4 wheels with a light touch to the peddle.

I could go on and on for days about my hatred for ABS!! I was working in a Mazda dealership back in 2004 and I had to take a Protogeé out for a road test. The customer was complaining about a knock in the rear. It was really icy out and I was approaching an intersection. I was only doing 20kmh and I hit the brakes... I swear the car sped up!!

I'm a mechanic and I've seen every problem that these systems have to offer.. Well, mostly anyway! I had the unfortunate experience of driving a Prius that decided to not stop accelerating, I drove a Cadillac CTS with stability control that though it would be a good idea to point the car at the ditch when it went sideways... I've lost steering all together on a Ford Fusion once! Boy that was fun!! That's another problem with all this tech. In order for Fords to do their automatic parking thing, they have an electric motor that drives the steering rack. Cool and all, but they cut out the direct link between the steering wheel and the rack and pinion! So in the event of a failure of the system, you are no longer connected to the wheels! This just doesn't make sense... I can understand how these systems can help inexperienced drivers, but they don't get rid of stupidity. A car with blind spot monitoring doesn't do anything to help when an inexperienced driver is doing 100mph and looses control. And now they even have variable rate steering, so the faster you go, the slower the steering responds...

The technology would make sense if we could shut it all off and still remain connected to the road. But you can't. And I've already hacked cars and driven them with the diagnostic computer... Mostly... Now that most cars are WIFI enabled (another brilliant idea) you can hack them an iPhone! I'll take an auto-drive car as long as they still allow for self-drive. But the technology isn't going that way...

As for Googles self driving car, put me behind the wheel of it... I'll have just as many accidents as the computer does.

reply to post by PollyPeptide


Hi Polly

When I was 15.5 my father took me in our family car up to the top of the hills in our town, to a place where two ridges ran parallel to one another. There was a 5 mile, winding switch back two-laner running down one ridge and then up again to the crest of the second ridge. He stopped, got out and told me to get out, walk around and get behind the wheel. He then told me to drive that road, my first time behind the wheel.

At sixteen, I had an accident. An on coming car turned left in front of me and though I almost made it, I crunched into the front right fender giving ample proof of my innocence to the attending police. That was 51 years ago. During that time I have had no other accidents and less than a handful of tickets. One was on the SF Bay Bridge at two in the morning on my way home from the hospital where my first child had just been born. I was elated and actually doing 5 mph over the limit on a straight and empty bridge when I got my only speeding ticket.

Like you, my father pounded into my head that driving was a privilege. A privilege that must be earned through training and testable skills.
A modern "rite of passage".

As I grew older I began to notice that the concept of the car as a conveyance was diminishing and the idea that the car was a plaything was increasing. I recall one car commercial which stood my neck hair on end. It was the one with the slogan Zoom Zoom Zoom. It featured the car of choice zooming and zig zagging through traffic turning the drudge of commuter rush hour into an obstacle course for aspiring young indie-drivers. As I contended with these fools daily, this TV sanctioning of dare devil driving pissed me off.Now of course, Madison Avenue depicts cars as jumping from tall buildings in a single bound. All the while, the family inside lounge in total comfort, each with their own tv set and voice activated surround system. OPps, this is your rant, not mine. Forgot for a second.

Thanks for the rant Polly and safe driving to you.

Do you want to Fly the Plane and the Bus and the train? Come on I think a great idea is this...

When you get on a Freeway the autopilot takes over those are typically the worst crashes by HUMAN error. Then arterial streets you can have the options as well as on urban/suburban roads.

People have always been distracted while driving and I am sick of traffic jams being caused by stupidity! You still have to learn to drive and I am betting when you are 90 you will like it and you wont KILL anyone!

reply to post by abeverage


Actually, yes I do want to keep my control Thankyou very much.

Passive safety systems like stability control and active roll over protection like my current suv have are welcome and have already proved their worth to me.

But

The moment computers start touching my steering wheel is the moment I stop buying new cars and keep the one I've got.

I agree, for three reasons:

1) I love cars. I love driving cars. I love being in control of the car. I love older vehicles. They're real. My new 2012 Chevy has "electronically assisted steering". What is that you ask? It's the difference from me being able to back out of a driveway with a tight curve in a 1980's sports car and stay perfectly within the pavement to me going off into my yard in the opposite direction when I turn my wheel back "straight". Since I turn it so fast, it predicts that I'm trying to turn left and turns the wheels BEYOND what I turn the steering wheel. By now I'm used to this electronic overcompensation, but it was a major issue when I first got this car.

2) People are paying less attention. I work in a body shop. The people with the backup sensors and the blind spot mirrors are relying too much on technology and paying less attention to reality. Customers will come to us with a torn up rear end and tell us the back up sensors didn't work. That's what you have eyes and mirrors for, but apparently you need common sense to use them which is lacking nowadays.

3) I work in a bodyshop. My income comes mostly from people's mistakes. If all cars drive themselves and communicate with one another some day in the future, that will undermine my skill-set. I know, this can be seen as a selfish reason, but do you want your job to become obsolete? Didn't think so.