John Hagee and his plans

I'd like some input on evangelical end times groups taking specific action to hasten what they call the rapture.

I came across an article and what it said threw up a red flag to me. Specifically church groups trying to influence U.S. politicians in regards to attitudes towards Israel.


" "We are the generation that will probably see the rapture of the church," Hagee said, referring to a moment in advance of Jesus' return when the world's true believers will be airlifted into heaven.

"In Christian theology, the first thing that happens when Christ returns to Earth is the judgment of nations," said Hagee, who wears a Jewish prayer shawl when he ministers. "It will have one criterion: How did you treat the Jewish people? Anyone who understands that will want to be on the right side of that question. Those who are anti-Semitic will go to eternal damnation."

On July 18, Hagee plans to lead a contingent of high-profile evangelists to Washington to make their concerns about Israel's security known to congressional leaders. More than 1,200 evangelists are expected for the gathering. "

This is from:
Los Angeles Times, USA
June 22, 2006
Louis Sahagun, Times Staff Writer

www.latimes.com...
quote from pg 2

If they're openly lobbying congress to bring about their religous ideals, what are they doing behind the scene? I don't know much about zionist conspiracy theories but I'm sure there is a huge amount of speculative possibilites here.

Hagee fails to realize that Jesus will ask the people who has done works ontop of his or her faith. Many people who have just the faith but no works will be cast down from Jesus as workers of iniquity. But, seeing as how Hagee and alot of his followers are people with "faith" only and no "works", the end result won't look too good for him.

Wisconsin

I'm more concerned with what other steps these groups would take.

For example:

They are sending money to repatriate Isreal. Are they also financing
groups who infiltrate or even attack palastinian orginizations?

How much of their monetary support comes from heavies in our financial
world. Donations to Hagee's church would be an easy way to funnel money in
support of Israeli groups without direct contact.

If the end times include massive destablization of society, are they willing to
cause this with precise attacks on our national infrastructure?

I haven't heard enough to see any sign of this, but, I thought others might have.
Besides, I think it makes for good discussion.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The theocratic nation of Israel which God had made a covenant with is OVER.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

anyone whoever believes in christ is a Jew spiritually. The minister has it wrong, Nations will not be judged on how they treat Jewish people, but "TRUE" christians.

[edit on 24-6-2006 by Shortness]

Yeah I'm with you shortness! Heres another Scripture Rev. 2:9: I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Now if Christ said there are fake Jews.... Then I believe him!





[edit on 6/25/2006 by jensouth31]

Originally posted by Shortness
Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: 29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

The theocratic nation of Israel which God had made a covenant with is OVER.

Galatians 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

anyone whoever believes in christ is a Jew spiritually. The minister has it wrong, Nations will not be judged on how they treat Jewish people, but "TRUE" christians.

[edit on 24-6-2006 by Shortness]

Hagee has always had it wrong. Half of the time, he is talking out of his ass. He gives Christians a bad name just like Jimmy Swaggart, Peter Popoff, Benny Hinn and others. These men need to get "kicked" off of the pulpit to let more serious players in.

Wisconsin

I believe these guys are in the pulpit because they are "planned infiltrators." Wolves in sheeps clothing...ya know if ya can't beat them.....joint them....work from the inside out. And boy are they

Originally posted by jensouth31
I believe these guys are in the pulpit because they are "planned infiltrators." Wolves in sheeps clothing...ya know if ya can't beat them.....joint them....work from the inside out. And boy are they

OMG that's funny!


Did you mean to put the typo in ? That's the funniest thing !! if ya can't beat them joint them!! LOL

Originally posted by Wisconsin
Hagee fails to realize that Jesus will ask the people who has done works ontop of his or her faith. Many people who have just the faith but no works will be cast down from Jesus as workers of iniquity. But, seeing as how Hagee and alot of his followers are people with "faith" only and no "works", the end result won't look too good for him.

Wisconsin

How is that you know that Hagee has no "works"? I believe, he helps support some good causes, though he doesn't talk about it much. What do you know that I don't?

Originally posted by curiousity

Originally posted by Wisconsin
Hagee fails to realize that Jesus will ask the people who has done works ontop of his or her faith. Many people who have just the faith but no works will be cast down from Jesus as workers of iniquity. But, seeing as how Hagee and alot of his followers are people with "faith" only and no "works", the end result won't look too good for him.

Wisconsin

How is that you know that Hagee has no "works"? I believe, he helps support some good causes, though he doesn't talk about it much. What do you know that I don't?

Hagee preaches that "works" aren't important- just "faith". If he checks his own protestant bible, he will see that St. Paul says that "Faith WITHOUT "works" is dead- just as "works" without "faith" is dead also. Basicall his bible says that "half of a man CANNOT be accepted. Charles Stanley preaches that "Once you're saved, you're ALWAYS saved" which is also wrong because because the bible says that "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh". Kenneth Copeland lets his wife preach which goes against the Protestant's version of the Bible where Jesus himself says "I suffer NOT a woman to teach NOR usurp authority over the man.", but she doesn't care and preaches anyway. Joyce Meyer plainly ignores that commandment and preaches anyway.

The reason why the world frowns on Christians is not only because they are extremely judgemental, but, they don't even live or obey Christ's commands. They just "pick and choose" what they will and won't accept. That is what gets them in so much trouble. Hagee calls Catholics The Great Whore. Well, this is where he is talking out of his ass because if it wasn't for catholicsm, there wouldn't be any protestants.

Wisconsin

Lot's of talk about Hagee and is ideology, but no response to my questions.
Anyone out there with opinions or information on what some of these end times groups may be doing to hasten the onset of their version of the rapture?

[edit on 25-6-2006 by rollinoffset]

[edit on 25-6-2006 by rollinoffset]

Here's a quote from an article I found since I began looking into this:

" DeLay is also a self-declared member of the Christian Zionists, an End-Time faction numbering 20 million Americans, reports The Christian Science Monitor. Christian Zionists believe that the 1948 creation of the state of Israel marked the first event in what author Hal Lindsey calls the “Countdown to Armageddon” and they are committed to making that doomsday clock tick faster, speeding Christ’s return.

In 2002, DeLay visited pastor John Hagee’s Cornerstone Church. Hagee preached a fiery message as simple as it was horrifying: “The war between America and Iraq is the gateway to the apocalypse!” he said, urging his followers to support the war in order to bring about the Second Coming. After Hagee finished, DeLay rose to second the motion. “Ladies and gentlemen,” he said, “What has been spoken here tonight is the truth from God.” "

from Glenn Scherer
on: sierraactivist.org...

The author continues by discussing how Sen. James Inhofe (R-Okla.) is abusing his position as the chair of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee.

There are some very powerfull US government entities that have publically alligned themselves with these groups. I'm going to attempt to place names, dollars, locations, and events in context to look for patterns that might indicate what theses end time groups are actively doing.

The only way a Christian could conceive of "hastening the day" of the Apocalypse to my understanding is by being wholly obedient to and doing the works of God. (2 Pet 3:11-12)

Hagee and other Christian teachers are responding to what is going on in the world and seeing the signs of the times Jesus taught about. (Luke 21:8-36) That DOESN'T mean he or any other Christian is doing anything illegal, immoral, or unethical towards hurrying us towards that day.

Still, Christians should be desirous of seeing the end of this age, expecting the return of Jesus. That is completely true of most I know, and not one of them is actively seeking for ways to hurry it up, other than working the works of God while they can work, and praying for the world's citizens.

We believe that Jesus must come and that He, as King of Kings and Lord of Lords, will be the great general that leads His followers into war in the Valley of Armegedon, (Rev 19:11-21)

So, we await His arrival. MARANATHA!

Originally posted by uplander

Did you mean to put the typo in ? That's the funniest thing !! if ya can't beat them joint them!! LOL

It wasn't a type O... and yes I ment to say that. And it's a biblical statement!

Originally posted by curiousity
The only way a Christian could conceive of "hastening the day" of the Apocalypse to my understanding is by being wholly obedient to and doing the works of God. (2 Pet 3:11-12)

Hagee and other Christian teachers are responding to what is going on in the world and seeing the signs of the times Jesus taught about. (Luke 21:8-36) That DOESN'T mean he or any other Christian is doing anything illegal, immoral, or unethical towards hurrying us towards that day.

How can any man Hurry God?? Everything happens in "His" time. I do however believe that the powers that be will try to bring about a mock Armegeddon. Oh and then the Anti-Christ steps in...and a bunch of misled Christians fall by the way side. Talk about an end time delusion!

Originally posted by curiousity
Still, Christians should be desirous of seeing the end of this age

Absolutely!! But it doesn't mean we can change one single part of God's plan, or hurry it along in any way. That's all I'm say'n Not trying to argue

Originally posted by Wisconsin Hagee preaches that "works" aren't important- just "faith". If he checks his own protestant bible, he will see that St. Paul says that "Faith WITHOUT "works" is dead- just as "works" without "faith" is dead also. Basicall his bible says that "half of a man CANNOT be accepted.

Works by themselves will not save anyone. But we are created for good works and should be doing them. That is what the Word says "8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them." (Eph 2:8-10)

Originally posted by Wisconsin Charles Stanley preaches that "Once you're saved, you're ALWAYS saved" which is also wrong because because the bible says that "The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh".

Job said "1:21 ..Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD." However, Charles Stanley is of the opinion because he has read Scripture and determined both from there and personally that the Lord said, "I will never leave you nor forsake you" (Heb 13:5 and other Scriptures) and meant it. What you did not say but I've heard Mr Stanley say is that we can certainly leave Him if we so choose and do so to our own vast hurt.

Originally posted by WisconsinKenneth Copeland lets his wife preach which goes against the Protestant's version of the Bible where Jesus himself says "I suffer NOT a woman to teach NOR usurp authority over the man.", but she doesn't care and preaches anyway. Joyce Meyer plainly ignores that commandment and preaches anyway.

Jesus didn't say what you quoted. It was the Apostle Paul in 1 Tim 2:12. I sometimes wonder why almost anyone "knows" that women aren't "allowed to teach" but they don't ever seem to know that Gal 5:23 says, "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." By the way, Galatians was also written by the Apostle Paul.

Originally posted by Wisconsin The reason why the world frowns on Christians is not only because they are extremely judgemental, but, they don't even live or obey Christ's commands. They just "pick and choose" what they will and won't accept. That is what gets them in so much trouble.....

I am disturbed that I have to agree that many Christians don't obey His commandments, and that many "pick and choose" what to obey, especially since your inconsistency in calling Christians "judgemental" when you've been judging throughout the entire post is equally disturbing.

Originally posted by curiousity
The only way a Christian could conceive of "hastening the day" of the Apocalypse to my understanding is by being wholly obedient to and doing the works of God. (2 Pet 3:11-12)

Originally posted by jensouth31 How can any man Hurry God?? Everything happens in "His" time...But it doesn't mean we can change one single part of God's plan, or hurry it along in any way.

Read the verses and you'll see that I'm not the originator of the idea. After all, the Bible does say He is coming after a church without spot, or blemish, or any such thing. which pretty much implies He isn't coming until we are in shape and the only way I know of pleasing God is by faith and obedience. (Eph 5:27)

I realize you are not trying to argue, that is appreciated, just felt it necessary to redirect the question.

The following is an excerpt from "MetaReligion" at
www.meta-religion.com...

where it is printed:

www.meta-religion.com...
Evangelist John C. Hagee of the 19,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio has helped 12,000 Russian Jews move to Israel, and donated several million dollars to Israeli hospitals and orphanages.

Guess that qualifies as "works", Wisconsin.

The following is an excerpt from "MetaReligion" at
www.meta-religion.com...

where it is printed:

www.meta-religion.com...
Evangelist John C. Hagee of the 19,000-member Cornerstone Church in San Antonio has helped 12,000 Russian Jews move to Israel, and donated several million dollars to Israeli hospitals and orphanages.

Guess that qualifies as "works", Wisconsin.

It also says

With that goal in mind, mega-church pastors recently met in Inglewood to polish strategies for using global communications and aircraft to transport missionaries to fulfill the Great Commission: to make every person on Earth aware of Jesus' message. Doing so, they believe, will bring about the end, perhaps within two decades.

Dangerously lethal plans, huh, rollinoffset?

edited to add quote/remark to rollinoffset.

Originally posted by rollinoffset
Lot's of talk about Hagee and is ideology, but no response to my questions.
Anyone out there with opinions or information on what some of these end times groups may be doing to hasten the onset of their version of the rapture?

[edit on 25-6-2006 by rollinoffset]

[edit on 25-6-2006 by rollinoffset]

I was raised in this kind of religous setting. Yes, I do believe the fundementalist end times b=nuts are very supportive if hastening their rapture. For example, they are against peace. Anyone who tries to talk peace or wants to work towards peace are labeled as servants of the anti christ. They support war as "the lords will". They are also staunch supporters of israel, and even support the things the israelis do to the plaentinians.

It tends to be my belief that its possible there is a large zionist infiltrator element within the ranks of the fundementalists driving them towards blind, rabid support of israel and all things israeli, even at the cost of their own nations.