Thousands Of Young Ukrainian Men Trying To Flee The Country To Avoid Conscription And The War

a reply to: DBCowboy

Hate to burst that bubble but they aren't going to win and never were. You can give them the entire arsenal of they collective west...without manpower it means nothing. A large part of their manpower doesn't want to be part of the west and another significant portion of that manpower no longer exisits because they get roped into fighting to be a western puppet. I know if I lived there I wouldn't want to sign up to a losing proposition and get used by some really poor generals tossing me into a meat grinder for PR opportunities.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Consvoli

I've always been of the mindset, go big or go home.

Either fight to win the war or surrender. America is supporting just enough to prolong the war, but Ukraine needs to win and win decisively.

If Ukraine was going to win, it was going to be in the first year or so. The West slow-rolling military support pretty much guaranteed either a Russian victory or a prolonged stalemate. The only way Ukraine wins now is if NATO directly helps, and we're not going to.

This isn't a pro-Russia or pro-Putin message, it's just reality. The West could have helped Ukraine win but our leaders were so timid we blew our chance.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Consvoli

I've always been of the mindset, go big or go home.

Either fight to win the war or surrender. America is supporting just enough to prolong the war, but Ukraine needs to win and win decisively.

If you think this way then something must be done to reverse the tide. Ukraine has lost 27% of its territory and so many young Ukrainians have died to the point many other young Ukrainians are fleeing the country so they won't go to war and get killed.

You have any practical ideas? other than admitting Ukraine has lost this war.

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: DBCowboy

Hate to burst that bubble but they aren't going to win and never were. You can give them the entire arsenal of they collective west...without manpower it means nothing. A large part of their manpower doesn't want to be part of the west and another significant portion of that manpower no longer exisits because they get roped into fighting to be a western puppet. I know if I lived there I wouldn't want to sign up to a losing proposition and get used by some really poor generals tossing me into a meat grinder for PR opportunities.

It's evident on the amount of territory they lost and the number of dead people especially young people. The Russians have lost a lot of men too but they gained large parts of Ukraine. The war must stop and not be prolonged.

originally posted by: Consvoli

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Consvoli

I've always been of the mindset, go big or go home.

Either fight to win the war or surrender. America is supporting just enough to prolong the war, but Ukraine needs to win and win decisively.

If you think this way then something must be to reverse the tide. Ukraine has lost 27% of its territory and so many young Ukrainians have died to the point many other young Ukrainians are fleeing the country so they won't go to war and get killed.

But... but... Ukraine has taken back 50% of the territory!

You are correct, that still means they've had a net loss. And they're not gonna be able to take back the rest of it. Russia will get what I think they wanted all along.

a reply to: Xtrozero

And what exactly do they have to pay this loan back? Are we loaning them all this to eventually come in and take their natural resources? That's about all they have worth what we are giving. Well once they owe us basically whatever they have left what becomes of their country?

originally posted by: YourFaceAgain

originally posted by: Consvoli

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Consvoli

I've always been of the mindset, go big or go home.

Either fight to win the war or surrender. America is supporting just enough to prolong the war, but Ukraine needs to win and win decisively.

If you think this way then something must be to reverse the tide. Ukraine has lost 27% of its territory and so many young Ukrainians have died to the point many other young Ukrainians are fleeing the country so they won't go to war and get killed.

But... but... Ukraine has taken back 50% of the territory!

You are correct, that still means they've had a net loss. And they're not gonna be able to take back the rest of it. Russia will get what I think they wanted all along.

I find no reason why this conflict should continue. What happend was awful and war is terrible. Stopping now and the more would be no more of thousands and thousands of young people getting killed.

a reply to: Consvoli

I completely agree the war needs to stop. The biggest mistakes they ever made was thinking the US or NATO in general ever cared about them beyond what they could gain from them in the first place. They are about to get a hard lesson on that now though. Wouldn't it be funny if in 10-20 years they end up back in Russia's pocket because of how terrible their situation ended up after siding with NATO...

originally posted by: RickyD
a reply to: Consvoli

I completely agree the war needs to stop. The biggest mistakes they ever made was thinking the US or NATO in general ever cared about them beyond what they could gain from them in the first place. They are about to get a hard lesson on that now though. Wouldn't it be funny if in 10-20 years they end up back in Russia's pocket because of how terrible their situation ended up after siding with NATO...

I said it many times but I blame everyone for the continuation of this war. Russia, Ukraine, and the West for wanted to have proxy war with Russia. But it's not their kids getting killed but some poor Ukrainians.

a reply to: Consvoli

I don't blame Russia any more than I blame the US for all the proxy wars we had in Latin America over the same issues. No world power wants another world power pushing into their sphere of influence to establish a puppet/friendly government. We didn't want that nor do they. We fought aginst it and now so are they. We had no reason for trying to puppet Ukraine other than pushing yet even closer into boarders with NATO and maybe the fact Ukraine is so corrupt we could get away with a lot of stuff we wouldn't want the world to know we are doing.

originally posted by: Consvoli

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Consvoli

I've always been of the mindset, go big or go home.

Either fight to win the war or surrender. America is supporting just enough to prolong the war, but Ukraine needs to win and win decisively.

If you think this way then something must be done to reverse the tide. Ukraine has lost 27% of its territory and so many young Ukrainians have died to the point many other young Ukrainians are fleeing the country so they won't go to war and get killed.

You have any practical ideas? other than admitting Ukraine has lost this war.

Nope.

As someone who has fought in war, I can say that the shorter the duration, the better.

I hate the way America prolongs #.

It's to make money for the MIC

It's like pharma. They don't want cures for diseases, they want treatments so they have customers for life.

It's been like this the entire war I remember posting a video at the start of the Ukrainian Police and army beating men and putting them in handcuffs trying to leave the country and all the Zelenskyy supporters (mostly Biden/Democrat supporters) on X were saying all the footage was fake and "Russian disinformation"

originally posted by: stosh64
a reply to: Consvoli
As long as they kill a Russian before they get slaughtered our politicians think it is worth it.
"best money we ever spent" -Traitor Lindsey Graham

Who in their right mind would willing go get butchered for these soulless globalists?

ETA: Reading the comments under that video gives me some hope the masses are waking up.

Lindsey Graham is a very evil man, hes got the blood of a lot of Ukrainians and Russians all over his hands starting back in 2014

Zelensky will meet his end - and that’s not what I wish upon him, but he will, either at the hands of Russians or at the hands of Ukrainians. He may escape to Israel perhaps and then he will be labelled a traitor.

He did not negotiate peace, and he could’ve at the outset. Now he lost swaths of territory, and… tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of young men’s lives.

All this sacrifice was for absolutely nothing.

Edit: on the other hand, Ukraine knows Russia. Russia would lay claim and want to take territory as part of early negotiations anyway. There is a reason Ukraine has been desperate to crawl out of being under Russia’s thumb.

in Russia there are not enough people on the streets like in Ukraine. accepted for a contract, after the Crocus the flow of volunteers increased. they immediately pay 500,000 rubles 5,300 dollars, to the new railway battalion 900,000 rubles 9,600 dollars. then about half in mont, all sorts of benefits, credit holidays.

originally posted by: ghandalf
Zelensky will meet his end - and that’s not what I wish upon him, but he will, either at the hands of Russians or at the hands of Ukrainians. He may escape to Israel perhaps and then he will be labelled a traitor.

He did not negotiate peace, and he could’ve at the outset. Now he lost swaths of territory, and… tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of young men’s lives.

All this sacrifice was for absolutely nothing.

Edit: on the other hand, Ukraine knows Russia. Russia would lay claim and want to take territory as part of early negotiations anyway. There is a reason Ukraine has been desperate to crawl out of being under Russia’s thumb.

So much talk about him being a useful idiot who instead of asking for peace negotiations he is asking for more weapons and money! After so many loses on both sides and after so many dead Ukrainians and many more who don't want to fight any longer with a large part of his country now occupied (probably forever).

originally posted by: RickyD

If you believe so much in this...why don't you go volunteer to fight over there?

I believe in defending one's country while understanding there will be some who don't. Really, what is the point here? What is the message the OP and article are pushing? 570,000 were draft dodgers in Vietnam, millions are running away from Russia and this article talks about 1000s in Ukraine. As I said before, there will always be a small percentage, and some most likely want Russia to win, but 1000s is nothing to even talk about and people want to make it a big deal.

BTW I am helping, been to Poland twice to train them.

originally posted by: Consvoli

So much talk about him being a useful idiot who instead of asking for peace negotiations he is asking for more weapons and money! After so many loses on both sides and after so many dead Ukrainians and many more who don't want to fight any longer with a large part of his country now occupied (probably forever).

So, if Mexico invades America and we hit 100,000 Americans dead would we make a deal and just give them 30% of the country? Once again, the evil side doing the killing and sending 1 million to their death could end this tomorrow.

But you know it is all Zelensky fault....geez

originally posted by: peretc96
in Russia there are not enough people on the streets like in Ukraine. accepted for a contract, after the Crocus the flow of volunteers increased. they immediately pay 500,000 rubles 5,300 dollars, to the new railway battalion 900,000 rubles 9,600 dollars. then about half in mont, all sorts of benefits, credit holidays.

It seems Russia is offering contracts and x months in battle but is not paying and leaving people in battle until they die with no rollout. They send 50,000 and when they die, they send 50,000 more. This has always been Russia's MOO to just send so many bodies the other side runs out of ammo..

originally posted by: RickyD

And what exactly do they have to pay this loan back? Are we loaning them all this to eventually come in and take their natural resources? That's about all they have worth what we are giving. Well once they owe us basically whatever they have left what becomes of their country?

You missed some key points, we are not sending money, but older equipment we put a price tag on. We could say 40 billion or just say a massive amount of old equipment...lol

I said maybe 50 years... We could get Russia to pay for it all too since they are the ones destroying everything and killing everyone there.

It's like I gave you a 20 year-old tractor and said I just gave you 25k while the tractor might be worth 12k, but in the end, you got an old tractor and I spend zero money. If I didn't give you the tractor it would just sit in my barn not used anymore, so where is the big lose?

If you want to complain about people dying, then complain to Putin since he controls the deaths on both sides.