Russian activist and Putin critic Alexei Navalny dies in prison

a reply to: gortex

It'll be Navalny's wife next. And his Mum. And his lawyer?

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

"Sovereign countries are free to join NATO."

You might have a point there if the west hadn't overthrown the Ukrainian government and installed a new one to get them to want to join nato.

Isn't it weird, we guaranteed their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes, then let Russia take part of their country? Now they're running to us to save them? Not very smart of them....

a reply to: Oldcarpy2

Three of his lawyers have already been arrested. The other two fled the country because they were facing charges.

a reply to: gortex

What a terrible guy. He should leave the biden tactics to the dictators!

a reply to: Fairlite

You might have a point there if the west hadn't overthrown the Ukrainian government and installed a new one to get them to want to join nato.

No, it was Ukrainians themselves who kicked Yanukovych out for being Putin's pawn, for corruption and persecuting his political opponent, Tymoshenko. 2014 wasn't the first time they rebelled against the pro-Russian government. Before, there was the Orange Revolution.

Isn't it weird, we guaranteed their sovereignty if they gave up their nukes, then let Russia take part of their country? Now they're running to us to save them? Not very smart of them....

Not very smart of them to give up their nukes. If they had kept them, that would be their real security guarantee. International agreements as guarantees are bunco.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

"No, it was Ukrainians themselves who kicked Yanukovych out for being Putin's pawn, for corruption and persecuting his political opponent, Tymoshenko. 2014 wasn't the first time they rebelled against the pro-Russian government. Before, there was the Orange Revolution."

Whoa! Do I have a bridge to sell you! And some prime swamp land to go with it! Look it's basically a matter of public record at this point. Even the top quora answer to the question shows all of the evidence it was the cia who did it. Yes they used real life Ukrainians, but it was as organic as coca-cola.

a reply to: Fairlite

It's funny that you see CIA there but not Russian interference. That was the reason for the war in 2014 - removing the Russian asset, Yanukovych. A lot has been said, even here, about the Russian subversion. Russia has always interfered in the affairs of other countries, especially the former Soviet Union members.

Of course, I won't convince you. Continue living in your bubble.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

I never said anything about Russia interfering with Ukraine. Why would I bring that up when we are specifically discussing CIA actions in 2014?

But since you're so apt to explain how russia is the bad guy, how did they install yanukovych? After they installed him, did they threaten his people to stop investigating Russian corruption? If you know why I ask that, you should start seeing a pattern that shows why I don't think the west is any better than russia.

originally posted by: twistedpuppy

And who was trying to destroy Russian culture? Ukrainians or Americans were trying to push their culture on Russians or what? Censorship in Russia is nearly as advanced as in China. Whoever would be trying to push some foreign cultural agenda there would face an extremely difficult task.

The so-called culture is Putin saying that Crimea is the birthplace of the Russian people and Ukraine is the diamond of Russia's history so it is Russia's right to take both back.

I agree there are historical connections between Ukraine and Russia, but so are southern CA to Mexico... The whole Russians are descendants of the Greeks was an idea invented by the USSR saying Crimes as their Greek birthplace for the Russian people. The actual indigenous people of Crimea were all removed and the USSR rebuilt it all into their Russian Greek image.

We are now talking about 8 to 12 different reasons they invaded Ukraine, so I'm sure they have a few more crazy ideas in their excuse bag still.

Lyudmila Navalnaya was allowed to see her son on Wednesday night , she says she is now being threatened by the authorities to allow them to bury Alexei Navalny in a place of their choosing.

"They want to take me to the outskirts of the cemetery to a fresh grave and say: 'Here lies your son.'"

"Looking into my eyes, they say that if I do not agree to a secret funeral, they will do something with my son's body.

"Investigator Voropaev openly told me: 'Time is not on your side, the corpse is decomposing.'"
www.bbc.co.uk...

a reply to: gortex

My bet is that's because they know 1000s of people will attend the funeral.

That they won't be able to control.

Without a mass slaughter or show of extreme force.

Should they decide to protest or TPTB makes it become a riot.

That tinderbox will never be allowed to take place.

a reply to: andy06shake

My bet is that's because they know 1000s of people will attend the funeral.

That they won't be able to control.

Dunno man. The multiple protests in 2017 and 2018 attracted thousands of people in many cities. But considering the total number of Russian citizens, the number of protesters doesn't seem overwhelming. The Russian society is largely apathetic and with the ever increasing repressions, this will only be getting worse. The smallest rebellion against the barbaric regime means the death sentence and not many are willing to take the risk.

Of course, Putin is too paranoid to allow any protests. Even people honoring Navalny with flowers were arrested. Not so many of them either. With Navalny hope also died. His death was the warning to the rest of the weak and scattered Russian opposition that the same fate awaits them if they stay in the country and try to continue Navalny's political activity.

It was also the message to the West that the Russian totalitarian regime is pissing on the values embraced by the Western democratic world, like human rights, freedom of expression, gatherings, the right to fair trial and so on.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

Suppose thats true to a certain extent

The majority seem to be willing to accept the government rhetoric being spoon-fed to them by Putin and his minions.

Can only hope all the same as "big things come from small beginnings".

a reply to: andy06shake

Russia is an animal that rarely changes and when it changes, it's usually for the worse. Once they rebelled against their tsar and we all know how it ended.

Democratic Russia sounds like an oxymoron. Those people just need to live under someone's boot. Sad but true.

a reply to: twistedpuppy

The nation does comprise 143.4 million people or thereabouts.

We have to hold out some hope for them where regime change for the better is concerned.

I would not place money on it happening anytime soon all the same or imagine it to be in the post.

Given the current geopolitical climate and the actions of that dictator piece of scum Putin.

The fact is the fellow is now on the same to a similar page in history as Hitler, Stalin, and Mao.

It sad as well because all the world wins is inevitably another Cold War with Russia being the European pariah for the foreseeable future.

And what will Putin have won from the whole debacle aside from doubling the size of his borders with the NATO nations.

Smart-thinking Lord Voldemort, tactical genius no doubt.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: Threadbarer

Edit: My bad.

I'm surprised he lasted this long to be honest.

There has got to be some fallout from this surely.

By whom?

I'm sure the same thing will happen that always happens.

Nothing.

People will carp about it for a short while and then go back to leading their lives of quiet desperation.

a reply to: SchrodingersRat

From his family for one.

I don't imagine you are far wrong all the same.

More the pitty be it.

As to the ramifications, again we have to hold out hope.

The thing is the light at the end of the tunnel Russia-wise these days generally turns out to be a train.

originally posted by: NotVaxxed
a reply to: Threadbarer

Rat snitch. God decided hia fate...on time

Dude?!?

C'mon man!

And what do you against rats anyway...

originally posted by: silentbunker
a reply to: andy06shake

I'm gonna shut my mouth.

Whatever I will say, will be ridiculed.

The very same thing they do with witnesses and/or victims.

A lesson for me to just let things go.

Definitely not!

You should speak your mind...metaphorically speaking.

Haters are gonna hate no matter what the topic is so why give a rat's ass?

PS - I have no idea what side of this debate you're on. It doesn't matter. Just keep debating as long as each side adds something new to each post. Harping is illegal on ATS. I know this for a fact because...well...ok...I don't know it for a fact. But if it's not, then it should at least be a future fact, n'est pas?