Time to Drop Document Charges against Trump TOO

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: RazorV66


My little sister lives in Texas. Texans have had enough of the nonsense. She said this morning " Its like we are living in a parallel satire universe". And it is. Its almost amusing. The left can't even see how foolish, backwards, dishonest, childish, and immoral they look. And even if they could, they wouldn't care. For them, it is "the end justifies the means, and anything goes"

Absolutely.
They should be embarrassed and ashamed of pretty much everything they do but don’t feel those things because they have no morals, integrity or conscience.

originally posted by: RazorV66

originally posted by: visitedbythem
a reply to: RazorV66


My little sister lives in Texas. Texans have had enough of the nonsense. She said this morning " Its like we are living in a parallel satire universe". And it is. Its almost amusing. The left can't even see how foolish, backwards, dishonest, childish, and immoral they look. And even if they could, they wouldn't care. For them, it is "the end justifies the means, and anything goes"

Absolutely.
They should be embarrassed and ashamed of pretty much everything they do but don’t feel those things because they have no morals, integrity or conscience.

That's one of the biggest things we need more people to realize with this fight. The Left is all in. They are willing to embarrass themselves, make themselves look stupid--we see examples of this here on the forum all the time, people we know are smarter but they'll make extremely dumb posts just to toe the party line--abandon professional ethics (all the doctors that put politics over public good with covid, trans issue, etc.), they'll lie, cheat, steal, beg, borrow, kill. They will do anything to advance their cause. They're fundamentally no different than Islamic jihadis. They're that dedicated.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: CarlLaFong

pfft

At this point, they'll pile more charges on Trump.

Don't expect anything honorable from the left.

Yep they want to increase his poll numbers even higher.

Reeeeeee!!!!

Time to Drop Document Charges against Trump TOO

Either charge them both, or charge neither one.

originally posted by: Threadbarer
Reeeeeee!!!!

What happened?
Trump scare you again?

originally posted by: Threadbarer
Reeeeeee!!!!

After all that has happened, you broke your silence for this.


Appreciate it.

a reply to: CarlLaFong

Let's start with your bloviating about unequal justice. Both Biden and Trump were the subject of criminal investigations by Special Counsels. So they were both treated equally in that regard. The point of that kind of investigation is to determine if an individual could be and should be charged with a crime. To conclude that they should be, the SC has to be able to name the specific crime that would apply. Deciding which crimes might apply is one of the very first things an SC has to figure out. In both cases, the SCs determined when Trump and Biden had legitimate access to classified material. They can't charge Biden for what happened when he was Senator, VP or POTUS and they can't charge Trump for what happened while he was POTUS. The only times they didn't have authority for classified information was, for Biden, the 4 years between leaving the VP job and taking the POTUS job and for Trump, the period starting the moment he left the POTUS job. The Espionage Act is the only criminal statute that could apply to them, so that's the standard both Hur and Smith used to. That statute is known as 18 U.S. Code Chapter 37. So, they were both treated equally in that regard. Given that the Espionage Act is the only law that could have been applied to either Biden or Trump, the next question is what standards should be applied in deciding whether to bring charges? Once again, there are rules for how that question is answered, and those rules are specified in the US Attorneys Handbook and were applied equally to Biden and Trump. The SCs don’t get to just make up their own rules on the fly. To bring charges, an SC must believe that the admissible facts of the case allow him to obtain a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt from a jury and that that conviction will withstand appeal. Both Hur and Smith used that chiteria to make their decisions. Again, Trump and Biden were treated equally. Hur points out that Biden presents himself as an affable, older man, with memory problems. He didn't make those statements just to be nasty. He made those statements because they are true, and each one would be used by a defense to raise reasonable doubt in front of a jury about whether Biden acted with criminal intent or was just an absent minded old fuddy-duddy. Hur wasn't confident he could win that argument in front of a jury, so he declined to prosecute, as he should have. Trump, on the other hand is an older man who claims he has a mind like a steel trap but has the personality of a giant Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, so he’s unlikely to elicit sympathy in front of a jury. More importantly, almost all the evidence against Trump is documentary, and sworn witness testimony, including the fact that he publicly confessed on the Sean Hannity show that he intended to take the documents and the fact that there is a publicly released audio recording of Trump discussing and showing classified documents to a reporter interviewing him. The case against Trump does not depend on how good or bad his memory is. In fact, the prosecution will probably never call Trump to the witness stand. Both SCs used the same criteria to make their decisions, but the facts are different in the two cases. That's not a double standard, that's exactly what the law requires.Then there's the fact that Trump is also being charged with obstruction of justice for lying about having the documents (which prompted the search warrant) and moving the documents around in an attempt to prevent the FBI from finding them. Biden didn’t do any of that stuff, so I think you’ll have to admit that it would be unfair to charge him with that.

Your statement that Trump had “complete authority to take and declassify all documents while keeping them in a locked and secured location, complete with Secret Service protection” is breathtakingly uninformed and wrong in every aspect. 1) the POTUS does not have unilateral authority to declassify all documents. The POTUS has the authority to unilaterally declassify any documents that were originally classified under his authority. Those would be the documents labelled simply “Confidential”, “Secret” or “Top Secret”. The POTUS does not have the authority to unilaterally declassify any documents that contain codeword protected information. A document labelled “Top Secret/SCI” would fall into that category, and there were several of those in the Mar-a-Lago boxes. By law, codeword protected information has to get reviewed by the ODNI to redact any information that would reveal names, means, and methods of intelligence collection. Remember when Trump tried to declassify all the Crossfire Hurricane documents in his last few days in office? He issued a bona fide executive memo drawn up by the White House lawyer ordering those documents declassified. Did he get to keep the Crossfire Hurricane folder and take it with him? No. It was immediately sent off to the ODNI for declassification review, which is where it probably is today. There’s also a category of nuclear secrets that contains what’s called Restricted Data (RD). The material that was taken from Mar-a-Lago contains at least one folder with RD in it. Restricted Data is not created under authority of the POTUS and the POTUS has absolutely no authority to declassify it or possess it after leaving office. 2) Whether a government document is classified or declassified, it remains government property and must be returned to the government on demand. No POTUS has the right to take government documents with him when he departs the government. The Presidential Records Act makes a clear distinction between documents that relate to the official duties of the POTUS and documents that relate to the personal actions of the POTUS. When the POTUS writes checks to pay hush money to a porn star, that is a personal action and he gets to keep those cancelled checks. When the POTUS gets love letters from the North Korean dictator, those are government property because they came as a result of the POTUS engaging in official diplomatic negotiations as the head of state. 3) The documents that Trump took to Mar-a-Lago were not all kept in secured and locked locations and protected by the Secret Service. If they were, you could make the same claim about the documents that Biden had. First, the Secret Service has no obligation to “protect” classified documents that might be in the possession of someone they are serving as bodyguards for and probably wouldn’t have any way of even knowing whether their protectee had such documents. Second, simply storing classified documents in a room that is sometimes locked is not “protecting” those documents from unauthorized disclosure if the people who have the keys to the room do not have security clearances and a need to know the material, and the locks and doors don’t meet standards set by the National Security Agency. Of course, Trump and his staff had neither clearances nor need-to-know and the bathroom lock probably came from Home Depot. The same comments would apply equally to Biden for the four years between leaving the VP position and taking the POTUS position.

a reply to: Boomer1947

1) the POTUS does not have unilateral authority to declassify all documents.

So in your assertion here, there are offices that serve under the POTUS who are also above the POTUS. I'm sure that logic is perfectly sound....


“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull#.”
― W.C. Fields

Yet no one is baffled......

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Boomer1947

1) the POTUS does not have unilateral authority to declassify all documents.

So in your assertion here, there are offices that serve under the POTUS who are also above the POTUS. I'm sure that logic is perfectly sound....


“If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bull#.”
― W.C. Fields

Yet no one is baffled......

I credit you for taking the time to read that mile long word salad which would make CommieLa Harris proud.

a reply to: RazorV66

I didn't need to read it all.

Just separate the assertion of fact from opinion. Then find the one thing that underpins their entire post.


Sounds like you weren't baffled either.

a reply to: Boomer1947

That is an awful lot of words but it is wrong. Biden could look at and read the documents as a senator. He had no legal right to take them home. Also Trump had the ability as president to declassify them then take them.

So Biden stole classified documents while a senator and before be had dementa. Now he is the one that has not been charged.

originally posted by: BeyondKnowledge3
a reply to: Boomer1947

Also Trump had the ability as president to declassify them then take them.

Who says? I keep hearing this. Can you prove this?

Biden: in error classified documents were sent to Biden's residence. When discovered Biden returned them.

Trump hid them and lied about returning them.

FACTS tell the truth.

a reply to: Annee

Biden: in error classified documents were sent to Biden's residence. When discovered Biden returned them.

Trump hid them and lied about returning them.

These are not facts. They are bias laced opinions.


But it's always been within your character to not understand the difference.

So no worries.

Seems to me. From the posts here, it's MAGA that has had its feeling hurt.

The whining, crying and complaining are getting old folks.

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

originally posted by: Disgusted123
Seems to me. From the posts here, it's MAGA that has had its feeling hurt.

The whining, crying and complaining are getting old folks.

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

Can you clear something up?

Is Biden competent enough to stand trial or is he not competent enough to be POTUS?

Appreciate you taking the time to answer.

originally posted by: Boomer1947
a reply to: CarlLaFong

Let's start with your bloviating about unequal justice. Both Biden and Trump were the subject of criminal investigations by Special Counsels. So they were both treated equally in that regard. The point of that kind of investigation is to determine if an individual could be and should be charged with a crime. To conclude that they should be, the SC has to be able to name the specific crime that would apply. Deciding which crimes might apply is one of the very first things an SC has to figure out. In both cases, the SCs determined when Trump and Biden had legitimate access to classified material. They can't charge Biden for what happened when he was Senator, VP or POTUS and they can't charge Trump for what happened while he was POTUS. The only times they didn't have authority for classified information was, for Biden, the 4 years between leaving the VP job and taking the POTUS job and for Trump, the period starting the moment he left the POTUS job. The Espionage Act is the only criminal statute that could apply to them, so that's the standard both Hur and Smith used to. That statute is known as 18 U.S. Code Chapter 37. So, they were both treated equally in that regard. Given that the Espionage Act is the only law that could have been applied to either Biden or Trump, the next question is what standards should be applied in deciding whether to bring charges? Once again, there are rules for how that question is answered, and those rules are specified in the US Attorneys Handbook and were applied equally to Biden and Trump. The SCs don’t get to just make up their own rules on the fly. To bring charges, an SC must believe that the admissible facts of the case allow him to obtain a conviction beyond a reasonable doubt from a jury and that that conviction will withstand appeal. Both Hur and Smith used that chiteria to make their decisions. Again, Trump and Biden were treated equally. Hur points out that Biden presents himself as an affable, older man, with memory problems. He didn't make those statements just to be nasty. He made those statements because they are true, and each one would be used by a defense to raise reasonable doubt in front of a jury about whether Biden acted with criminal intent or was just an absent minded old fuddy-duddy. Hur wasn't confident he could win that argument in front of a jury, so he declined to prosecute, as he should have. Trump, on the other hand is an older man who claims he has a mind like a steel trap but has the personality of a giant Madagascar Hissing Cockroach, so he’s unlikely to elicit sympathy in front of a jury. More importantly, almost all the evidence against Trump is documentary, and sworn witness testimony, including the fact that he publicly confessed on the Sean Hannity show that he intended to take the documents and the fact that there is a publicly released audio recording of Trump discussing and showing classified documents to a reporter interviewing him. The case against Trump does not depend on how good or bad his memory is. In fact, the prosecution will probably never call Trump to the witness stand. Both SCs used the same criteria to make their decisions, but the facts are different in the two cases. That's not a double standard, that's exactly what the law requires.Then there's the fact that Trump is also being charged with obstruction of justice for lying about having the documents (which prompted the search warrant) and moving the documents around in an attempt to prevent the FBI from finding them. Biden didn’t do any of that stuff, so I think you’ll have to admit that it would be unfair to charge him with that.

Your statement that Trump had “complete authority to take and declassify all documents while keeping them in a locked and secured location, complete with Secret Service protection” is breathtakingly uninformed and wrong in every aspect. 1) the POTUS does not have unilateral authority to declassify all documents. The POTUS has the authority to unilaterally declassify any documents that were originally classified under his authority. Those would be the documents labelled simply “Confidential”, “Secret” or “Top Secret”. The POTUS does not have the authority to unilaterally declassify any documents that contain codeword protected information. A document labelled “Top Secret/SCI” would fall into that category, and there were several of those in the Mar-a-Lago boxes. By law, codeword protected information has to get reviewed by the ODNI to redact any information that would reveal names, means, and methods of intelligence collection. Remember when Trump tried to declassify all the Crossfire Hurricane documents in his last few days in office? He issued a bona fide executive memo drawn up by the White House lawyer ordering those documents declassified. Did he get to keep the Crossfire Hurricane folder and take it with him? No. It was immediately sent off to the ODNI for declassification review, which is where it probably is today. There’s also a category of nuclear secrets that contains what’s called Restricted Data (RD). The material that was taken from Mar-a-Lago contains at least one folder with RD in it. Restricted Data is not created under authority of the POTUS and the POTUS has absolutely no authority to declassify it or possess it after leaving office. 2) Whether a government document is classified or declassified, it remains government property and must be returned to the government on demand. No POTUS has the right to take government documents with him when he departs the government. The Presidential Records Act makes a clear distinction between documents that relate to the official duties of the POTUS and documents that relate to the personal actions of the POTUS. When the POTUS writes checks to pay hush money to a porn star, that is a personal action and he gets to keep those cancelled checks. When the POTUS gets love letters from the North Korean dictator, those are government property because they came as a result of the POTUS engaging in official diplomatic negotiations as the head of state. 3) The documents that Trump took to Mar-a-Lago were not all kept in secured and locked locations and protected by the Secret Service. If they were, you could make the same claim about the documents that Biden had. First, the Secret Service has no obligation to “protect” classified documents that might be in the possession of someone they are serving as bodyguards for and probably wouldn’t have any way of even knowing whether their protectee had such documents. Second, simply storing classified documents in a room that is sometimes locked is not “protecting” those documents from unauthorized disclosure if the people who have the keys to the room do not have security clearances and a need to know the material, and the locks and doors don’t meet standards set by the National Security Agency. Of course, Trump and his staff had neither clearances nor need-to-know and the bathroom lock probably came from Home Depot. The same comments would apply equally to Biden for the four years between leaving the VP position and taking the POTUS position.

confefe .

originally posted by: Nickn4
There is clearly no justice in Washington, that ship has sailed. If trump is elected, I hope he pours it in their ass for the double standards. Disband most of the intelligence community and the FBI. There is clearly no Integrity at the FBI.

" Hillary Clinton: Biden's Age 'Legitimate Issue' for Voters "

"I talked to people in the White House all the time, and you know, they know it's an issue," Clinton told Wagner during the interview. "It's a legitimate issue."


Hmm... Rats Leaving a Sinking Ship........


www.newsmax.com...

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: Annee

Biden: in error classified documents were sent to Biden's residence. When discovered Biden returned them.

Trump hid them and lied about returning them.

These are not facts. They are bias laced opinions.


But it's always been within your character to not understand the difference.

So no worries.

YES -- those are the facts.

You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you. Your posts rarely make any sense.

And again, you resort to personal attack.

originally posted by: JinMI

originally posted by: Disgusted123
Seems to me. From the posts here, it's MAGA that has had its feeling hurt.

The whining, crying and complaining are getting old folks.

a reply to: BeyondKnowledge3

Can you clear something up?

Is Biden competent enough to stand trial or is he not competent enough to be POTUS?

Appreciate you taking the time to answer.

You have the right question there but I don't have an answer.

He is ether guilty or not competent to be president. He is trying to be innocent and incapable of trial while being competent as president.

Two things that can't both be true at the same time. Biden will have to choose one. Oh, that is right, his puppeteers will have to choose.