Minnesota Cities Went All-In for Electric Transit, But the Buses Couldn’t Handle the Cold

www.msn.com... c=SCOOBE&cvid=8bb13454cdce43e3b5075518cc93d3dc&ei=17

www.minnpost.com...

Road to zero-emission buses proves challenging for Minnesota transit agencies
Vendor issues, performance in subzero temperatures and charging station maintenance are among the challenges transit agencies face as they try to decarbonize their fleets.

This should come as no surprise, current battery technology is not there for this environment. Just more wasted taxpayer $$ to "feel good"

a reply to: Loadstain

cold is hard on batteries, and they can't say they didn't know that sh@@.
they take longer to charge and the regenerative breaking doesn't do much to help. plus the heating system for the batteries draws power from them.
some sources say that cold reduces battery performance by 40%. and you might as well forget cabin heaters and deforsters heaters.

they are saying there's hope, cause they are working on batteries without any fluid inside them.

only solution for green is internal combustion using hydrogen.

They added one electric bus to the transit system in Juneau Alaska. There are still several regular busses which is good because it's no surprise I haven't seen the electric one out lately lol

a reply to: Loadstain

I remember seeing a story about these busses.
They run a few hours in the morning, charge for five hours, run a few hours at night.

I think they use diesel heaters too...

a reply to: Loadstain

The first line in that MSN link sums up the entire EV/Green Energy/Climate Change story in one sentence.

Virtue-signaling liberalism is fighting another losing battle with reality.

Reality is the Kryptonite to the deranged Liberal cult, they will never escape it and their ridiculous ideologies and hair brained schemes will never go anywhere.

a reply to: StokeGnar37

It's electric!
You can't see it....

Drift/

originally posted by: Loadstain
www.msn.com... c=SCOOBE&cvid=8bb13454cdce43e3b5075518cc93d3dc&ei=17

www.minnpost.com...

Road to zero-emission buses proves challenging for Minnesota transit agencies
Vendor issues, performance in subzero temperatures and charging station maintenance are among the challenges transit agencies face as they try to decarbonize their fleets.

This should come as no surprise, current battery technology is not there for this environment. Just more wasted taxpayer $$ to "feel good"

The Minneapolis Metro transit system owns more than 900 buses.

www.metrotransit.org...#:~:text=At%20the%20end%20of%202018,hours)%20and%20make%20fewer%20stops.

According to those articles you quoted, they purchased 8 all-electric buses as a trial program. That hardly qualifies as going "all-in".

a reply to: Loadstain

I thought that's why buses were converted to CNG in large numbers? Those reduced numbers weren't green enough?

This seems like one of those things where it doesn't reduce anything. Let me check with math.

Extra charging means the emissions from the power grid. MN is 27% Coal, 18% Natural gas, so if there's at least a 45% chance of using electricity generated from those sources.

Coal is 1,000g CO2/kWh,
natural gas is around 500g CO2/kWh
Nuclear power is 30g CO2/kWh

US generates on average 0.3712 kgs CO2e per kWh.
Minnesotas may be higher. Looking into the twin cities.

Most of the metro area's electricity is supplied by Minneapolis-based Xcel Energy, the state's largest utility with 1.3 million customers. The warhorses of Xcel's electricity generation fleet are two nuclear plants in Red Wing and Monticello, three big coal-fired plants in Becker, and a fourth coal plant in Bayport

While dont know or want to look up the output of these plants. I am going to say 60% of Minneapolis power comes from coal.

60% coal @ 1 kg/kWh
40% nuclear @ .03 kg/kWh

= 600 g + 12 g = 612 g/kWh or .612 kg/kWh

So we will adjust Minnesota.

Looking into this, a heated full electric bus uses up to 2.5 kWh per km in sub-zero conditions.

www.sustainable-bus.com...

On average, a 12-meter bus has in the best conditions a consumpion of 0.8 kWh per km – Shabert said -. We are talking of operations in a normal day with 20 degrees, no much traffic and a skilled driver. Everything depends on the heating. A bus operating in the winter, for instance at minus 10 degrees, with electric heating turned on can reach a consumption of 2.3 – 2.5 kWh per km.

But this is about winter problems.

Therefor the MINNEAPOLIS grid produces 1.53 kg/km in winter to run their buses.

For diesel, the emission factors reported are 1.67 to 1.74 kg/km, and for CNG, they range from 1.54 to 2.03 kg/km

So...

Electric = 1.53 kg/km
Diesel = 1.67 to 1.74 kg/km
CNG = 1.54 to 2.03 kg/km

To not be totally bias, if you throw in the times heating is not used (assumed as half @ 1.1) the average is @ 1.8 kWh/km

Electric = 1.10 kg/km
Diesel = 1.67 to 1.74 kg/km
CNG = 1.54 to 2.03 kg/km

STILL, SAVE THE PLANET WITH LATERAL MOVES FOR CRAPPIER BUSES! Go green energy!

Electric vehicles are not a bad idea everywhere but electric vehicles everywhere is a very bad idea.

It is all about the people that want to be seen as green and not what is actually green.

The greenest buses are the ones that can't run at all.

They'll consider this a win.

a reply to: loam

I hear Charging EV Batteries in Sub Zero Temperatures is Not an Easy Task ..........

Yet another example of get woke go broke. Too bad the taxpayers are footing the losses for an idea that was obviously flawed from the start. But hey, we ignore inconvenient science these days for the sake of feelz. It's all good, we'll just print more money.

originally posted by: loam
The greenest buses are the ones that can't run at all.

They'll consider this a win.

The governor should just make it so difficult for people to travel that they choose not too.

EV mass transit/buses ... should operate efficiently in a EV friendly environment (15 minute cities within a domed enclosure)

the present model for inner city transportation are privately owned vehicles fueled with fossil fuels/hydrocarbons...
all cities are developed into using fossil fuels and not steam energy or electric battery-storage sources to power vehicles around the city

i plan to keep my LSV (low-speed-vehicle) operating in my 8 mile radius 'Hub' of go-to-venues till my Heir inherits that 2010 Star Car (13 year old EV, keeps on chugging)

the 'progressives' up there in Minn really need 'Woke Up' to the real world situations... cold temps being an obvious imparement to EV reliability

originally posted by: RazorV66
a reply to: Loadstain
...
Reality is the Kryptonite to the deranged Liberal cult, they will never escape it and their ridiculous ideologies and hair brained schemes will never go anywhere.

This si why Lyin' Joe said that they "choose truth over facts."

Their "truth;" EVs are going to save the planet and be cleaner, cheaper and easier to run than internal combustion powered vehicles.

The fact: No, they won't save the planet, no they are neither cleaner, nor cheaper, nor easier to run.

Hell with facts.

a reply to: Boomer1947

You want us to believe that the city did not do due diligence as they were looking into buying ANY electric busses?
Oh, I forgot, Democrats run that show up there.

a reply to: Loadstain

It's a short bus for green passengers so its capacity is already limited.

a reply to: Boomer1947

I agree it doesn't count as going all-in; however, the standard practice here is to use the news article title. If you want to blame anyone for being sensationalist, blame MSN.

Our local transist system recently bought new busses and graciously retired the diesel workhorses.

Propane. Clean burning and fuel efficient.

Somewhat should I inform the Progressives about this amazing new environmentally friendly technology.

Granted I'm a Southern Gal and I admit I'm limited in my knowledge about how propane reacts in colder environments because Im an idiot but I'm learning new things everyday from the fine gentlemen here on-site.

God bless them for putting up with me because I'm certainly a handful!