What's so hard to understand

or to quote Samuel L Jackson "ENGLISH MOTHER F**KER DO YOU SPEAK IT.

[ deep breath ]

I'm looking for a new truck. My old Dodge is in need of some TLC and I decided that this Winter will be the time to do it. I have a shop with plenty of room and I decided I'll just park it in there and work on it when I feel like. I'll order parts a bit at a time and just take it slow. Once the cold weather sets in and I can't go fishing, it'll be something to do.

Problem is, car salesmen [ or women ] don't understand the term "base model". I have been to 4 dealerships and none of them seem to understand those words. Every. Single. Time. they keep trying to show me a loaded truck that I EXPLCITLY said I didn't want.

On top of acting like a pack of buzzards hovering over a dying mule, they just won't listen.
The conversation goes something like "Hi ! Can I help you find something ? "

Me :" I'm looking for a new truck, but just a base model. No frills, I do NOT want sat nav/gps/heated seats/touch screen/automatic ass wiper. Just heat/AC, a radio and electric windows. Even those are an option. If you have one with crank down that'll be fine too."

Them : " Let's take a look at this one, just let me get the keys" They come back, open the door and it looks like the bridge on the Enterprise. Buttons and switches, dials, leather seats, with a sun roof and of course, a touch screen.
...and they start the lies "I have a friend who just loves his heated and cooled seats and the GPS gets him right where he wants to go.....and I tune them out.
First 2 I stopped and said "I said base model"
"Oh we don't have one on the lot".
I just walked away.
Last 2, I didn't even stop their spiel, I just turned around and left.

As I head for the car, I get, "I have another one over there you may like"... and I just keep walking.
The last guy caught up with me and said he had a base model on the lot and we could go see it. I stopped, looked him in the eye and said "I TOLD you what I wanted and you showed me that damn thing anyway, trying to sell me what I didn't want so you could get a bigger commission. Now you don't get anything, 'cause I'll be buying from somewhere else"....and kept walking.

a reply to: DAVID64

I hope you can find intelligent life on your search. I recommend shopping on the internet.

a reply to: DAVID64

It’s what I’d have done, with the addition of a proud middle finger as I’m walking away

a reply to: DAVID64

I feel your frustration and your anger is justified. There's more to it, though.

I fully understand you and I myself often choose the more basic models because I don't need things like parking assistance sensors or assistance and #, I can drive. Stuff that I do not have, can not break..

One of the main reasons for this behavior by companies and salesmen is that it's not only the button and switches and gear you see in the cabin. There are control units and a manufacturer will not make 100 different control units for every stage you can buy. So this is the reason why you sometimes need to buy the NAV system to get digital radio etc.

Car manufacturers quickly found out that people would buy the base model and then add the other stuff after the fact. This and the fact that each control unit development, storage, documentation, the parts etc cost money.

So sometimes you buy a base model with control units for a lot more. But sometimes the cost difference between base model and higher models is marginal, internally. Because base models are sold less and less and making a strip naked control unit for the base models is not cost effective. So it is a mixed calculation and manufacturers actually can loose money selling base models.

It always depends on the model, manufacturer, development stage (facelifts) etc.

But again, I feel your frustration and I would have been angry too if someone wastes my time by giving me false information. Sadly this is "normal" and sales tactics.

Salesmen and saleswomen that don't listen and do the same spiel to every customer are the worst, I hate dealing with salesmen LOL probably because I was one.

Have told salespeople before Im a salesman to bypass giving the canned introduction and they still can't help themselves. But car salesmen are really the worst of the lot. Trying to upsell every person who walks on the lot.

It sucks you can just walk on a lot, but most dealers have their whole inventory online I'd research it there first. Hell most places you can go through all the BS and have it ready when you show up.

a reply to: DAVID64
But, but, what about EVs? Your dooming us all and our children if you don't buy an EV.. I'm just going through the same thing looking for a car for my grand daughter. Rule number 1. do not, I repeat, do not believe anything that comes from their mouths. Rule 2. look for yourself and you choose.

a reply to: DAVID64

My 86 chevy truck has crank windows on it, it has rubber floormats, it is just black which is easy to touch up with cans of any black paint.

We got a base subaru in 2020 new, with the only option being aluminum wheels and some other little stuff in that package like floor mats and a cargo cover. We also got the undercoating for that price. It was around twenty eight including tax and the eight year extended Subaru warrantee.

I cannot afford to buy a fancy truck to drive, and nobody around here even stocks the base models which run about thirty five grand out the door. They are all about fifty grand plus here now, and most of the options I don't even want on my vehicle. On the Subaru we have the backup camera and screen which we rarely use when we back up, we use the mirrors, the back up camera is handy in case there is a kid or dog behind the car though but we never use it to back up. Standard on the base was lane centering and auto shut off when you come to a stop...we disable those with two buttons immediately when we get in the car. If we forget we are swearing at a stoplight or the car seems to wander on the highway because the lines on the shoulder and centerline are half worn off and eyesight messes up.

That was the base on the subaru forester. Even the base included things that we don't need. The only thing I like is that it has the screen if you want to make phone calls or answer phone calls. But even that we really don't need, we really do not need to have cell phones either, we lived without them in the past. WE pay thirteen bucks a month for our cell phone service now, no subsidies, one gigabyte of data, and unused stuff gets carried over. The wife has done maybe twenty texts on her phone....I just attempted my first text and the first time failed to go through...the second text supposedly went through but I never got an answer so who knows if it ever worked for sure. I am not going to bother texting anyone, I do use facebook messenger once in a while and e-mail sometimes to contact people but I usually just call which these days is supposedly considered rude to call someone. I have not got the time to sit around and wait for a text which the person might take hours to respond. After an hour, I cannot even remember what I was going to discuss with them. Texting is the most inefficient thing they invented.

a reply to: putnam6
It's sad. The vast majority does this, yes. Not those that live for the topic "car", though. I am not a saleswomen in the classical sense but when I get the feeling a customer is making a bad decision within a project, it's my obligation in that case to point that out.

What the customer does with that information is mostly up to them, unless I can already see problems down the road that lead to trouble. Like impossible things or when it's about durability, safety etc. Then I will point blank say you can't get that here if that is what you want. Also to protect myself.

Interesting enough, this MO pays out. I had such cases, especially in the beginning. They would leave disappointed but then come back after they experienced the complete opposite where they get upsold with unnecessary parts etc. That is why I do not need advertisement. People in the scene talk to each other an know quickly who is honest and able to stand behind what they do or who just throws parts into a block, take the money, next one please.

I generally do not like salesmen or saleswomen because of such dishonesty. Whenever I had a project to do that involved a chassis that isn't built anymore, I would go chassis hunting. IMHO the best tactic was to let them speak while knowing what you want and in the end you speak in short and precise sentences, make the offer that is evenly as brazen as their lies, like 40% less and when they then make a fuss or get unfriendly, I disclose my title and credentials, what is wrong with the car, the price I really want to pay and tell them flat out it's my way or the highway.

Just need to use their weapons and haggle them, then walk away. Most important is to not show feelings and always relativating what they say with mimics, gestures or speech. Play their game, it's them that want you money. Some get it when you start looking for the not so obvious obvious stuff, though. I am sure one of the salesmen that hasn't sold the soul completely yet can chime in on such experiences where they encounter people that are like teflon to their lies.

Upselling at a car dealership!
Who would have thought such a thing?

See if you can get in touch with the fleet manager. They might be able to work with you.

Also, some dealerships allow you to place an order online and have the vehicle shipped. It might cost a little more than one with similar features on the lot, but without the upgrades, it might still be cost effective.

a reply to: Dapaga

This is a great advice I forgot!

@David
Almost all manufacturers have online configurators that give you a specific code, that you can take to your dealership. When they enter the code, you get the exact model you configured.

Then tell them to give you at least 20% discount. If they decline find another one. Up to 35% is possible in discount and they still make money from you. If they tell you they can't do the discount, then tell them you already did all the work. All they have to do is order, unload the car on the parking lot, remove the protective foils and and be comfortable with their 10-15% win (after you got your 20%).

Forget dealers....State and local auctions are great for utility units.

a reply to: TDDAgain

You definitely sound like a damn good salesperson, now Im dying to know what you actually sell.

I just believe it's the first priority that a salesperson listens to their customer and serves their specific needs first and foremost. David 64 told them his very needs and they completely ignored him, to me that's strike one.

After addressing their specific needs and they are engaged and "on the hook" then expand into the positive and negative, other options, opinions, etc.

There are definitely industry-specific adjustments, necessities, and tactics that may need to be addressed once you are engaged properly. In our industry, we had a decent-sized but limited customer base, we counted on repeat customers. Our product was excellent for its price points, but our customer service was always what sets us apart.

Basic customer service is listening attentively to the customer.

a reply to: putnam6
Past tense, I now only do one project or two a year because of health issues. Feeling a bit uncomfortable talking about it, because I don't want to come over like advertising. But since I am not really active anymore, I think I can explain:

I sell/sold concepts for race cars, mostly inline six turbo charged engines from Nissan and BMW. My main expertise is engines, turbo technology and suspensions/tire setups.

So basically a customer walks in and tells me he either needs upgrades for his existing car, or I can offer a brand new car that I will rebuild to specs. BMW M4 exclusively. For that we sit down, I listen and the customer tells me about demands and financial room. Some want track specific setups but I can only do that on the Nürburgring.

After all is said and done, I develop a concept to present the customer. Is he driving drag, occasional track days, hill climb racing or rally. Does it need to be street legal? What products can I use and what works, what does law allow (safety, emissions).

I project the cost and rough time after talking to my suppliers and partnerships for custom CNC parts that I may had to design, or whatever I need to get the job done. I outsource everything that is not related to engine, it's bolt ons and suspensions. I can do everything in my shop except calibrating crankshaft and camshafts. Well, I do interior but I want to focus on engines and suspensions mostly, because this is where I excel and feel comfortable.

I am proud to say, because I built two engines for the famous 24h endurance race and then word got around. But now since my medical journey, I can not do such physical demanding work anymore and settled helping training apprentice that one day hopefully become masters, just like me.

The last car I built was a white R32 Nissan Skyline. I am not allowed to disclose the specs but it's beyond 1000HP. I don't build engines below 600HP because I don't do bolt ons, I go for internals because it is my passion.

a reply to: DAVID64

Here's the thing: there is no question that car dealers will try to upsell you so that they can make a bigger commission. But I think there's more at work here than just that.

I think that automakers these days mostly don't make what you would recognize as a "base model". For example, I think it was mandatory for back-up rear view cameras to be installed from 2015 onwards. Having a back-up camera means you're going to have a touchscreen display. Having a touchscreen display means that you're going to have a modern operating system installed. I don't think anyone makes a modern vehicle with hand crank windows. Ditto for manually adjusted seats. Lane assist features (like lane departure warnings and collision warning)--while not strictly mandated by law--are basically universal on new cars. And so on.

It used to be that (with pickup trucks especially) you could special order a vehicle through the dealer from the factory with just the features you wanted and none of the features you didn't (within limits) and it would take a couple of months to get delivered. Maybe you can still do that--I haven't tried in many years--but it's very unlikely that a dealer these days would even have a minimalist vehicle just setting around on the lot when you happen to walk in.

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: DAVID64

I hope you can find intelligent life on your search. I recommend shopping on the internet.

I'm gonna go car shopping on line right after I find my next bride....online !

a reply to: putnam6

I split the posts in case one get's deleted (am not sure about T&C so I alerted my own post after the fact in fairness).

I just believe it's the first priority that a salesperson listens to their customer and serves their specific needs first and foremost. David 64 told them his very needs and they completely ignored him, to me that's strike one.

After addressing their specific needs and they are engaged and "on the hook" then expand into the positive and negative, other options, opinions, etc.

There are definitely industry-specific adjustments, necessities, and tactics that may need to be addressed once you are engaged properly. In our industry, we had a decent-sized but limited customer base, we counted on repeat customers. Our product was excellent for its price points, but our customer service was always what sets us apart.

Basic customer service is listening attentively to the customer.

Could not have worded it better. Too many strikes, I would have been pissed, too, if I would not know the game. My post was not to excuse the behavior or defend, but point out that sometimes (not in this case), the salesperson has valid reasons for interfering with the customers plan.

Like for example if a customer approaches me with his own concept and I see the car has drag specs but the customer tells me he wants to drive circuit, I will interfere. It's like selling someone a FWD when the customer lives in the remote hills with snow most time of the year, you tell them to get an AWD or 4x4. Of course I can sell that FWD but would it make the customer happy? It is always a fine line between interfering too much and not caring what the customer needs.

Customer care is important, that is why I did not scale up or partner, because then the volume is so high I loose track of the people. Actually what brings me the most joy is the first ride with the customer on the passenger and seeing the reactions. How they do not recognize the car. The really brave ones can join the ride, when I go to my test track on an old industrial area, that I can rent day-wise and built a temporary "pop up course" to test everything from A-Z. After signing a liability voucher, of course.

Customer service is even more important, I won't sell a complicated machine and leave the customer alone with it. To this day I have an open line for any former customers and keep all the infrastructure in place.

a reply to: DAVID64

They may not have base models on the floor, right?

Most dealerships have a limited amount of space to display what they are selling. They have to show the best they have, and if you want to buy an entry level model that can be shipped. But you can still test drive the one that has GPS.

Unless you are buying used, but doesn't sound like you were going after used. Used is just luck of what they have on the lot until you find a lot that has what you want.

originally posted by: TDDAgain
a reply to: putnam6
Past tense, I now only do one project or two a year because of health issues. Feeling a bit uncomfortable talking about it, because I don't want to come over like advertising. But since I am not really active anymore, I think I can explain:

I sell/sold concepts for race cars, mostly inline six turbo charged engines from Nissan and BMW. My main expertise is engines, turbo technology and suspensions/tire setups.

So basically a customer walks in and tells me he either needs upgrades for his existing car, or I can offer a brand new car that I will rebuild to specs. BMW M4 exclusively. For that we sit down, I listen and the customer tells me about demands and financial room. Some want track specific setups but I can only do that on the Nürburgring.

After all is said and done, I develop a concept to present the customer. Is he driving drag, occasional track days, hill climb racing or rally. Does it need to be street legal? What products can I use and what works, what does law allow (safety, emissions).

I project the cost and rough time after talking to my suppliers and partnerships for custom CNC parts that I may had to design, or whatever I need to get the job done. I outsource everything that is not related to engine, it's bolt ons and suspensions. I can do everything in my shop except calibrating crankshaft and camshafts. Well, I do interior but I want to focus on engines and suspensions mostly, because this is where I excel and feel comfortable.

I am proud to say, because I built two engines for the famous 24h endurance race and then word got around. But now since my medical journey, I can not do such physical demanding work anymore and settled helping training apprentice that one day hopefully become masters, just like me.

The last car I built was a white R32 Nissan Skyline. I am not allowed to disclose the specs but it's beyond 1000HP. I don't build engines below 600HP because I don't do bolt ons, I go for internals because it is my passion.

That is impressive as hell, TDD makes me want to read more about this subject. You no doubt have a special passion since you are taken it from concept to completion, you know your product inside and out it's your baby, wow.

Humbly, all I had were jobs, and while you can develop a knowledge and passion for whatever you sell sometimes, I never sold anything I had a real passion for from the beginning

originally posted by: TDDAgain
a reply to: putnam6

I split the posts in case one get's deleted (am not sure about T&C so I alerted my own post after the fact in fairness).

I just believe it's the first priority that a salesperson listens to their customer and serves their specific needs first and foremost. David 64 told them his very needs and they completely ignored him, to me that's strike one.

After addressing their specific needs and they are engaged and "on the hook" then expand into the positive and negative, other options, opinions, etc.

There are definitely industry-specific adjustments, necessities, and tactics that may need to be addressed once you are engaged properly. In our industry, we had a decent-sized but limited customer base, we counted on repeat customers. Our product was excellent for its price points, but our customer service was always what sets us apart.

Basic customer service is listening attentively to the customer.

Could not have worded it better. Too many strikes, I would have been pissed, too, if I would not know the game. My post was not to excuse the behavior or defend, but point out that sometimes (not in this case), the salesperson has valid reasons for interfering with the customers plan.

Like for example if a customer approaches me with his own concept and I see the car has drag specs but the customer tells me he wants to drive circuit, I will interfere. It's like selling someone a FWD when the customer lives in the remote hills with snow most time of the year, you tell them to get an AWD or 4x4. Of course I can sell that FWD but would it make the customer happy? It is always a fine line between interfering too much and not caring what the customer needs.

Customer care is important, that is why I did not scale up or partner, because then the volume is so high I loose track of the people. Actually what brings me the most joy is the first ride with the customer on the passenger and seeing the reactions. How they do not recognize the car. The really brave ones can join the ride, when I go to my test track on an old industrial area, that I can rent day-wise and built a temporary "pop up course" to test everything from A-Z. After signing a liability voucher, of course.

Customer service is even more important, I won't sell a complicated machine and leave the customer alone with it. To this day I have an open line for any former customers and keep all the infrastructure in place.

You don't just know your craft you have mastered it, as well as have superb ethics and business acumen. Here's to you training your apprentice, dont be too hard on them, you have set an extremely high bar.