Is there anyone who cares about truth anymore...

originally posted by: network dude
a reply to: St0rD

your dad has realized that Truth is subjective. Your truth may not be his truth. I know that sounds squishy, but it's the way it is. Facts point you to what you need. Others will try to distort those facts to fit their agenda.

Just think about this, today is April 26th, 2022, your phone has an emoji for a pregnant man. people believe there are more than 50 genders, way more. The last election was the most secure election in the history of Man. If you argue against any of those untruths, you will be pummeled by the mob. They have hijacked "truth" in favor of feelz.

How about you start with what you hope to accomplish by finding "the truth". that way we can understand what you want to know.

IMO: the truth can be subjective and or driven by perception while facts are real and typically immutable.

For the Left the last election was the most secure ever while for the Right it was the most insecure ever. My belief after researching it to the best of my abilities is that like so many things in life the truth can be found in the middle. In other words this election was as secure as any previous election. I neither believe it was the most secure nor was it the most insecure. In general this how I view most topics in life but I am also aware that what works for me doesn't work for everyone else or anyone else and that is okay. In the real world people should be allowed to disagree without it becoming The Red Wedding.

As for the being pummeled by the mob this is definitely a real thing which can be witnessed on ATS on a daily basis. Actually ATS is a great example on the ways the definition of "meaningful discourse" has changed in the world over the past 8-10 years.

Accurate info and tangible facts are not always the key driving factor in thread creation here currently. Rather it would seem the typical motivation for a thread comes down more to getting confirmation bias for a political affiliation vs actually trying to deny ignorance. You then have the firm belief among some posters that whatever specific political party they believe in are the White Knights of humanity , are infallible from corruption and as long as these White Knights destroy any opposing thought then all will be well. Similar to the real world if you call either of those types of things out in a thread the tryhards of the ATS jump in with attempted snark, insults or anything they can throw at the wall in attempt to deflect away from the facts and obfuscate the truth. Sadly I don't think that can be fixed either here or in the world as a whole since extreme ownership , accountability and introspection are a much harder choice vs being a keyboard warrior in a lot of cases.

So in regards to the OP thread title , "Is there anyone who cares about truth anymore..."

For me I define the truth as making sure I develop , implement, present and control my beliefs, thoughts or actions in a fair and reasonable way. When it comes to facts though I don't have to apply any filter but rather I just like to give those in a true unmodified way on topics and allow people to make their own informed decisions.

a reply to: St0rD

Some people don't deserve to know.

a reply to: St0rD

Is there anyone who cares about truth anymore...

... or did anyone ever cared anyway?

Oh my dear lordy! What a condescending and sanctimonious question to ask on a discussion forum with the motto "deny ignorance." Do you think you're the only freaking person here who wants the truth? Who is looking for the truth? Who is trying to find the truth? Who shares the truth???

Your own father told you "good luck." Not "fat chance!" Not "who cares?" Not "when pigs fly and hell freezes over." And certainly not "no! no! no! truth is bad!!!" He told you "good luck." That sure doesn't sound like he's anti-truth to me, so why shade him as such? What did you want him to say? What did you expect him to say? Did you ask him to expand or explain his answer?

Since January 2021, I've had a thread going on election integrity issues... it outgrew the first thread, and is now in its second thread... where I have repeatedly and consistently called for "the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth." Where I and a few others (including... um... skeptics) have posted countless articles and court cases and audits/investigations, etc., regarding the election issues, trying to find that truth, that whole truth, and nothing but that truth. Where the hell have you been? I don't recall seeing you there, especially not recently.

Don't you care about the truth??? Is that the presumption I should be making? Should I be assuming that you're okay with lying liars and cheating cheaters stealing our elections???

Or should I let you find truth where and how you so choose, while I find truth where and how I so choose, and others find the truth where and how they so choose, then we all share the info we find with those likewise interested?

Perhaps -- here's a crazy thought -- on a discussion forum dedicated to denying ignorance???

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

You seen this one Terry?

The whole truth is almost extinct these days. When I was young, over fifty years ago, my dad told me to only believe half of what you hear and three quarters of what you see. It is much worse than that now. It sucks.

a reply to: St0rD
'Truth' is subjective to personal bias, for most people. They don't want to hear any truth that doesn't align with their group think, or hurts their feelings.

My eldest recently visited. She's had conservative views for some years, but after moving to Seattle three years ago she's become a 'it's all Trumps fault' kind of girl.

When she tried to blame the failed pandemic response entirely on Trump, I began to ask what she thought of some of Biden's actions, which was met with her yelling about anybody who tried to pin it on Biden was stupid and wouldn't even let me finish my sentence.

End of discussion. She is free to find the truth, or not- and believe whatever she wants....but I will not discuss politics with someone who doesn't want to at least look at both sides of any issues.

Perhaps that's why your father avoids discussing it with you?

Maybe your father has come to terms that the only peace in life at his age will be what he creates in his little corner of society and doesn't want to be drug back into the madness of the world around him, disrupting the balance he's created to enjoy his remaining days in.

You gotta know when to fold 'em!

a reply to: St0rD

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: St0rD

Some people don't deserve to know.

" Deserve " ? now that is an interesting word to use concerning the Truth .

It takes some serious Ego to judge who deserves the Truth mate.

a reply to: nugget1

pick your battles.

a reply to: St0rD

Like others have already suggested, ‘truth’ is subjective because it can include belief. So, really — who cares about truth? It’s often meaningless, especially when pushed by people of religious faith. If there’s anything more ‘untrue’ about a truth, it’s religious people. Take for example the number of people on this thread who actually believe Satan is real and influences things. How ‘true’ is that? About 0% i suspect.

Now, if you’re talking about ‘facts’ — well, that’s a whole different and more accurate thing. A fact is either true or false, it isn’t up to subjective interpretation or opinion.

That’s what we should be focusing on - facts. Truth is irrelevant.

originally posted by: Bleeeeep
a reply to: St0rD

Some people don't deserve to know.

and some people can handle the truth so they wrap a nice comfy "Q" blankey sold by the pillowman and go to sleep.

Sound like anyone you know?

a reply to: karl 12

That is a pretty full summation of truth. I had not seen that one but it gets its point across for those who have the ears to hear and the eyes to see.

Nearly all of those statements in the video are true, or if not true at least demonstrating a high degree of verisimilitude, verisimilitude being a word that guides my own search for what is true.

Years ago my favorite uncle and I were camping when he handed me a rock by the campfire. He told me to hold it in my hand and to think about it, there in my hand. Think about what held it up from the ground. Think about what it would do if I turned over my hand. He asked me what I thought it would do at that point. I told him it would fall. He said, yes most likely, BUT ONLY most likely. So I turned over my hand and sure enough it fell to the ground. His approach was that of verisimilitude. It will fall to the ground if you remove your hand. But in space he told me, it would not. On the moon it would but it would fall very slowly.

So yes, on a verisimilitude scale, that rock would most always fall. Maybe not but probably yes.

So back to the video, all of those little quips can be weighed on a scale of verisimilitude as being rather close to being completely true. I accept that. And this is how I approach ''truth'', that it being a vast collection of things that have this high level of being probably true. As we collect these ''maybe true'' ideas they begin to take on form in that they can strengthen the verisimilitude of other accepted ideas while possibly weakening or dismissing others. And the process goes on and on, building a vision of ''truth'' that changes and develops as time goes on and new pieces of information, ideas'' come to light.

We monkeys may or may not have the capacity to make real sense of any of this.

a reply to: St0rD

The evil one, Satan or whatever he is called, is deceiving us all. Then, Jesus shows us the way.
Fine, I agree with that but where in your post is it providing clues on how to overcome this evil and wickedness that ravage us all?

The Bible tells us how to overcome evil. Stay close to God and obey his commandments. Pray that God's Holy Spirit will help you to resist evil. Pray for others that they will come to know God and do the same. Only God can open someone's eyes to the truth, so pray that He will. Pray for His protection against all of the evil plagues, people, and lies of this world in case others choose to continue to follow evil anyway. We all have free will to choose and we have to surrender the rest to God to sort out.

Now, that's not to say that you shouldn't speak up about what is true and what is not. Just don't get heavily wrapped up in people who refuse to listen. Just pray for them instead.

Don't get me wrong, I believe in God and all of its glory but still, why does most of the time somebody quotes what they believe are his teachings... nothing substantial comes out of it?

Not everyone looks at God the same way. Some of us see God as our true Lord and Savior who we rely on for pretty much everything. As for people who quote God, but don't have a personal relationship with Him, nothing substantial will probably come out of it. Sometimes it looks like our prayers aren't being answered, but if we know the Bible, we know that the world will have to pretty much descend to hell in a basket before Jesus comes back to straighten it out. God's plan take precedent over ours and He always knows best. Unfortunately, many people won't choose to seek Him until they're in the most desperate period of their lives, but that shouldn't stop you from being able to seek your own peace through Him, knowing that He's got this covered.

a reply to: St0rD

Is there anyone who cares about truth anymore...

Yes..he;s a little busy with other things now but...Fox Mulder for sure.

originally posted by: rickymouse
The whole truth is almost extinct these days. When I was young, over fifty years ago, my dad told me to only believe half of what you hear and three quarters of what you see. It is much worse than that now. It sucks.

Almost the same 40 years ago, Ricky. Almost, my dad told me to not believe anything I hear and only half of what I see.

originally posted by: Quadrivium

originally posted by: rickymouse
The whole truth is almost extinct these days. When I was young, over fifty years ago, my dad told me to only believe half of what you hear and three quarters of what you see. It is much worse than that now. It sucks.

Almost the same 40 years ago, Ricky. Almost, my dad told me to not believe anything I hear and only half of what I see.

And they say that people are getting smarter in this country with technology

My father might not have been the most educated person, but he had good common sense and experience from living here for fifty years. With how he said things, he kept spraying DDT on the crops because those selling it said it was perfectly safe...he should have known that that saying applies to more than just the news and science....It is not science that is untruthful, it is the fact that science is used more to profit from people or use against people than it is used to help us. People and agencies fund research to prove what they want to be considered real. Some sciences are worse than other science with creating evidence to prove their beliefs. The worst sciences to abuse this are medical/Pharmacology and chemistry used in our food creation and preservation....including pesticides and herbicides along with anti-microbial chemistries..

originally posted by: St0rD

Is there anyone who cares about truth anymore or did anyone ever cared anyway?

I can say that I would like to know the higher truth.

Perhaps your dad was wiser than you presume. It could be argued, that like space and time, all truths are relative. That the only truth that can exist is the absolute which exists distinct from space and time. Our world of dualities (true or false) existing only in our conciousness. A tool that conciousness uses to make sense of all external stimuli. That in itself colors reality in a different light.

a reply to: St0rD

Truth is your reality, even if it constantly changes and updates on a regular basis, it's meant to and not any fixed belief.

Tell your dad you will continue to love him, even though he is weak.

originally posted by: turretless

originally posted by: St0rD

Is there anyone who cares about truth anymore or did anyone ever cared anyway?

I can say that I would like to know the higher truth.

The highest truth is unknowable, unimaginable......yet unavoidable.