Bitcoin Going to Zero? Not Likely

a reply to: liejunkie01

Right now that is the best strategy.

I have a few BTC now that the price is manageable.

I intend to hold onto it.

If it does drop to $2500 or so I intend to pick up quite a bit more, but I don't see that happening.

I heard about this today and thought of this thread.

Basically the owner of a crypto exchange died, and with him, 180,000,000, in bitcoin cannot be "found"
I'm not really understanding crypto to well, but thought this might be interesting to add to the conversation.
How secure is your crypto.

www.ashcroftcachecreekjournal.com...
A few more interesting one's pertaining to the security of something that does not virtually exist.
www.theguardian.com...
globalnews.ca...

a reply to: projectvxn
You solely into bitcoin or have you bought into a few alts also?

originally posted by: Xabi87
a reply to: projectvxn
You solely into bitcoin or have you bought into a few alts also?

My alt portfolio is pretty good right now.

Currently holding VeChain (VET) and Vechain Power VTHO, Basic Attention Token, Holo, Ethereum, Tron, and XRP,

I'm trading BTC right now on a day to day until it stabilizes, though most of my BTC is tucked away along with my gold and silver.

I'm getting ready to buy A LOT of Decentraland.

a reply to: projectvxn
Ah nice, i have also have some Tron and XRP. Tron is looking exciting at the moment, lot's of buzz about it and everyone is jumping on.

I'm 100% alts just waiting to see if Bitcoin goes any lower, only took the plunge in January when everything was dropping.

a reply to: Xabi87

I hold a LOT of tron and XRP.

But as far as volume goes, that honor is bestowed on HOLO. I have quite a lot of it.

It's a interesting project and I think it has some potential in distributed computing and the monetization of it. This is something I also touched on in my essay on the machine economy.

The Machine Economy: An Essay on The Communication of Value in an Automated Economy - Section 6, The Machine Economy

Concepts like distributed networking and decentralized processing are already in use. For instance, the BOINC system, relies on distributed computing for the storage and processing of signals data for SETI and other scientific programs’ observations. If the value of labor is work divided by time, then this can be transferred on to an idle CPU to render a service that benefits the owner (Anderson, D.P. 2002).

originally posted by: TonyS
a reply to: projectvxn

Thanks for the information! Interesting reading. S&F.

Like you..........I don't believe Bitcoin will go to zero. I would hazard to guess that as it comes ever more to be used in commercial transactions, the value of Bitcoin will "settle". By that I mean, the ups and downs in the value of Bitcoin will smooth out over time and settle into a more or less "comfortable" range. As that happens, speculation in the currency will no longer be attractive to the trading crowd, and it will stabilize in a range.

Thanks

It's not ever going to be used in commercial transactions more so than now, it's at it's peak and only going backwards. I mean, Valve used to take BTC payments, they stopped because it was so volatile. It won't settle if it never gains traction. With the news of one of the exchanges being locked out of a super large amount of money because the owner of the exchange died with the only encryption key -- people really see how little security BC is. BC is stupid, it's not sound, it's intrinsically worth nothing, there is no reason to apply it value, because it's actually more trouble than it's worth and it's volatility creates crazy risk, and honestly... Crypto's died before they ever took off, they were a scam to get the creators rich, which actually imposed some temporary value and allowed some people to ride that wave into the millions, but most people just lost, and ended up no better off for using crypto.

TLDR;
It's value is as phony as our money, it's security is worse, it's volatility is worse, it's risk is higher, stores that took them stopped = it's not better than dollars.

Anybody holding onto the dream is just hoping for a second mega wave to roll by on a glass like calm day.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: EternalSolace

But every percentage of a decline is another percentage toward normalization of PC components.

Once again, you have a one pie mentality.

And once again, it doesn't work that way.

Why does one thing have to disappear for another to flourish?

That's a lack of imagination that creates that mentality.
www.investopedia.com...

The core reason behind this efficiency is that the video processing GPUs are devised to do better in performing similar and repetitive work, than in performing diversified multi-tasking functions like those of the CPU. For example, rendering a 3D movie requires the GPU to keep processing similar kinds of information to the screen again and again, though with slight changes.

This is also used in machine learning and there's been an explosion in AI research that has made the demand for GPUs jump even higher.

It isn't just Bitcoin mining or mining in general that is causing the spike in GPU usage.

In The Era Of Artificial Intelligence, GPUs Are The New CPUs

Bitcoin mining is merely a symptom of an overall disease (for gamers) that will soon go away when the market catches up to demand for GPUs as our economy demands more and more complex calculations to be made.

yeah it is; you're wrong. So wrong in fact that the GPU manufacturers decided to create a new sku dedicated solely to crypto miners so they would stop buying up the supply.

People have always used GPU's since CUDA came around for bulk processing. Cryptos were born out of this use, not the other way around. Development on machine learning has been ongoing for years and isn't "suddenly" picking up speed at all, it's actually been this steady since the first CUDA core.

I.E.

ATi and nVidia both announced that crypto's were the main culprit behind the price hike, as well as the ram shortage, and for the 20xx series RT core R&D.

The reason the 20xx series is more money is actually because they contain more hardware, RT Cores never existed before, and their cost of development has to be recouped as well. This is why the 2080ti is over $1,000, instead of being $799 like it would have been prior to Crypto and RT Cores.

I mean; you're dead wrong, and the graphics card companies said so, and openly spoke on the record about why crypto affected the price, so much so; that they made non-graphics card crypto mining skus just so they wouldn't buy up all of the supply.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: JinMI

I'm laser-focused on BTC and am very bullish on its performance this year.

Governments are about to face another debt bubble.

Bitcoin is immune and will likely be how I hang on to my buying power in the next 5 years.

No one learned # from the '08 bubble. They are still lending to irresponsible people and then that will turn into a whine fest when they go underwater upside-down on a house hardly worth the price tag.

Then there's the "Student loan crisis" where a bunch of idiots bought 100,000 dollar debt contracts for degrees that won't even bring in 25k per year...And the US Federal Government is on the hook for every penny.

All of this is going to put major pressure on the dollar. We may see a short period of deflation, but knowing the fed, the printing will ramp up and inflation will once again be the main concern.

It's always cute when people say things like "X currency is immune from Y currency failing" when it's not.

You fundamentally don't understand value, and even if another debt crisis comes, the purchasing power of a BTC, is still relative to the cost of purchasing it with "Y" currency. In other words, unless you mined yours [which you can't ever mine significant amounts quickly anymore] you had to buy it with the failing currency. If the failing currency fails, it'll make BTC look more valueable, but it won't be able to be cashed out, and if it's not taken anywhere, then intrinsically it loses value.

This is like saving your money in "Gold/Silver/Precious metals" -- it doesn't do you anything, because if there was a collapse, gold and silver would be worthless. It only has a worth because it's metered against our currency. It'll only ever "protect" you if you hold onto it if/when the economy recovers, and then it's valuation will be determined by the markets of the recovered "Y" currency.

BTC can never be worth anything tangibly stable, it's very nature makes it volatile, which means it can only ever be used as a hedge and never as a currency. A hedge cannot hold value long if it's volatile. Once people realize how unsteady it is, how absolutely volatile it is, they will pull their money out of it; and a mass sell off is what tanks the valuation. This is why BTC was driven up past 18k and why it now sits at ~2k. Most of the players left and sold it off, hence it's valuation is poor. On the other hand it's going to drop again, because $180,000,000 in coins that cannot be replaced or remined have been lost forever.

In other words, BTC is a worse form of digital gold; where holdings in gold are only every bought low and sold high as a hedge investment, it's never actually held to protect value, that's the scam that gives gold it's artificial value in the first place. It's always low after a crash, it's always high before one. Do you get it yet? Here is the thing about gold and silver, it's tangible and can be reforged, while BTC can never be recovered if it's lost.

Gold and silver last forever. BTC is toast if there is ever an EMP, or large solar event that fries servers, or for some reason the exchanges become unavailable. Gold and silver is tangible, BTC is volatile and the opposite of tangible. It's only good to play in if it's trending up and you bought low, it's never good to hold.

I know people that bought it for long term investment despite me explaining how it works. They bought in at 4,000, rode it up to ~20k, and crashed down to 2 because they thought it would hold value; so each and every one that did this, lost money.

Congratulations, YOU WON A NEGATIVE NUMBER!!!!

originally posted by: Bluntone22

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Indigent

It's freedom from the global banking cartel.

C02 is not a good excuse to abandon that and you know it.

I agree it's going to be around for a while but I'm not going to risk my money.

I also dont like the idea of bit coin being so untraceable. That's an easy way for human trafficking and drug cartels to move money.

Bitcoin has No fundamental value. Its not backed by anything and therefore its only value is what someone is willing to pay for it. No currency can operate that way and stay viable. Just because someone is willing to pay 1000 for an object with no value doesnt mean it gains value. You can get people to buy anything if you package it right. The other problem is just whats happening now in 2018 its value was 8500.00 now its worth 3300.00 Some investors lost alot of money on bitcoin. Thats why even Goldman Sachs decided not to trade in bitcoin. Final nail in the coffin is China banning it that is where most of the investors were from.

a reply to: SRPrime

Bitcoin is going to be digital gold, other coins will be used at shops and stuff. Take a look at a device called Pundi X, it's already in shops worldwide and will only get more popular, the device is free for shop owners.

a reply to: SRPrime

I've made too many commitments to address this properly right now.

Come Friday afternoon I will devote time to a decent response.

Heh. Will Bitcoin (or all crypto for that matter) go to zero? Who knows. I mean Beanie Babies are still around, but few are worth anything.

I mean I guess crypto currencies have the criminal who will always need a way to buy kiddie porn of the dark web, so they've got that still going on the mission statement.

a reply to: usernameconspiracy

Dumbest comment award.

I suggest, like many here, you need to do more reading on what currency is used for such activities.

By and large it is not BTC.

a reply to: SRPrime

It's not ever going to be used in commercial transactions more so than now, it's at it's peak and only going backwards.

This is patently false.
Adoption rates have been steadily climbing even during the downturn in the market.

Blockchain.com tracks the BTC blockchain in real time. It also has some fantastic charts that you can use to track adoption rates. The rate of adoption and the rate of daily transactions has been going UP this entire time, not down. Here's the Charts section:
www.blockchain.com...

I mean, Valve used to take BTC payments, they stopped because it was so volatile.

This is understandable. However I would point out that since the beginning of Bitcoin volatility has gone down significantly since 2010: www.buybitcoinworldwide.com...

With the news of one of the exchanges being locked out of a super large amount of money because the owner of the exchange died with the only encryption key -- people really see how little security BC is.

We don't know much about how keys are SUPPOSED to be handled do we?

And you blame BTC for this? You need to read up on that story some more.

It's value is as phony as our money, it's security is worse, it's volatility is worse, it's risk is higher, stores that took them stopped = it's not better than dollars.

It's value is derived from the time and energy required to solve blocks and validate transactions. The problem with this "good vs. evil" view of money is that it ignores thousands of years of technological evolution for the communication of value. I do not think of money in the same way you do.

stores that took them stopped

Steam stopped taking it. Microsoft suspended BTC transactions and they are now back online.

The VAST majority of businesses that accepted BTC before, accept BTC now.

The transaction rate has been steadily climbing for the last year as evidenced here:

www.blockchain.com...

You are patently wrong.

a reply to: SRPrime

It's always cute when people say things like "X currency is immune from Y currency failing" when it's not.

I did not say that the currency was immune from failure. If you're going to engage in a debate with me at least address what I actually did say.

You fundamentally don't understand value, and even if another debt crisis comes, the purchasing power of a BTC, is still relative to the cost of purchasing it with "Y" currency.

I understand value quite well. You should be aware that BTC is NOT pegged to any currency and that it's value is NOT relative to the value of a particular currency. BTC does not derive valuation of any kind from any currency. This will also address your next whole paragraph of misconceptions and misinformation.

but it won't be able to be cashed out

It doesn't have to be. It's a currency. How do you not know this yet?

BTC can never be worth anything tangibly stable, it's very nature makes it volatile, which means it can only ever be used as a hedge and never as a currency.

The average transaction volume per block has steadily gone up, not down. I've shown that already.

I've also shown that the average volatility of BTC has significantly gone down since its inception.

Both of these assertions can be found in my previous post to you.

Hedges are typically NOT volatile. Which means that you're using words you don't understand.

Gold and silver last forever.

You need a history lesson on money and what it is, why it has changed so much, and where it is going. I offer this since it is very well sourced and researched:
www.abovetopsecret.com...

despite me explaining how it works.

You very obviously have no idea how it works.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: Bluntone22

Gold isn't usable currency

There will only ever be 21 million BTC. It is an inherently non-inflationary payment system.

When the dollar finally does eat it, BTC will be worth over $100,000 or more and you'll see just how real it really is.

Gold can be a useful measure of currency. We just need to fix the gold price based on the amount of currency outstanding. Make it so a $5 bill is always worth $5 of gold.

And who is going to run the bitcoin systems when they can no longer paid in bitcoin for doing so? And how much will these "monopolist" be charging to do transactions and run the chain?

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

Scaling is the issue here.

There will never be enough gold to scale for exponential growth.

This is why we don't use the gold standard anymore.

originally posted by: projectvxn
a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

Scaling is the issue here.

There will never be enough gold to scale for exponential growth.

This is why we don't use the gold standard anymore.

You don't need more gold...you just need a higher gold price.

a reply to: sligtlyskeptical

You can't just inflate the price of gold.

Further, gold is far more useful in industrial and scientific application than as a currency.

The total market cap of gold is 8 trillion dollars. It is a store of value investment and highly impractical for currency. What you describe is the promissory note and that has its own set of problems too. Further automated transactions between machines will outpace human transactions fairly soon and gold will not scale to this level.