Was the apostle Paul a wolf in sheep's clothing?

Paul was a sinner like the rest of us im in the same situation as him i cant stop sinning, im born again as he said i do the things i dont want to do, i dont do the things i should do, He was being honest cannot say that for most people, and to say he never met christ no one knows or can prove it so you cant say he is a fraud becouse you or anyone alive today was not there. I believe he was with christ, most people if not all do the things they say they dont want to do but really they do want to it. No one can overcome the sin nature while in the flesh its impossible, all people are evil in GODS eyes.

originally posted by: Saylesie17
all people are evil in GODS eyes.

I guess God really #ed up on creation...

a reply to: TheJourney

No man in his own ignorance never listened, just like always we go our own way, wonder why the world is in the state that it is, becouse human beings are incapable of doing anything other than war, greed and every other crazy thing that is man.

originally posted by: Saylesie17
a reply to: TheJourney
human beings are incapable of doing anything other than war, greed and every other crazy thing that is man.

God created human beings.
Human beings are all evil, incapable of doing anything other than war, greed and every other crazy thing that is man.
Ergo, God #ed up in creation...

If you create something which is incapable of doing good, only able to be evil, you #ed up.

a reply to: TheJourney
Do you know the bible, you should read it sometime. The nature of sin, the fall of man, the reason why we are in the present situation. Ignorance is not bliss.

originally posted by: Saylesie17
a reply to: TheJourney
Do you know the bible, you should read it sometime. The nature of sin, the fall of man, the reason why we are in the present situation. Ignorance is not bliss.

*sigh* I'm more than aware of the Christian doctrine. Saying more words and going I tangents may be fine if you just want to recite established doctrine, but it's just side-stepping the very simple point made in relation to your statements.

a reply to: TheJourney

So then you know GOD never f*****d up creation. That was the point im making, and if you not christian it makes no differance.

a reply to: 3NL1GHT3N3D1

I'd say Paul, or Saul Paulus, was a wolf-- in wolves' clothes.

For fun, or rather terror, read his letter to the Philippians with that in mind that Paul and some of his brutes are imprisoned, and picture how Paul blames the Philippians for his dismay, think of this letter as ironic threats (yes, those were indeed times of war, paranoia and conspiracy), even against Jesus' very real children, or as Saul calls them by their rightful family name, «the Caesar household».

If Jesus' father Joseph was Caesarion, then Jesus' children would be the last remaining Caesars left in this world, and Jesus' royal stature was very much real, believe me, he wouldn't even have to nod in the Old Master's general direction to rule the world. I think Jesus literally owned the known world at the time through his royal blood on both sides. Rome, Greece, Egypt.... if his father was the son of Julius and Cleopatra, he would be heir to it all. And we know old Mary was heir to the kingdom of David through her father.

Saul Paulus was the devil in pursuit of these, and he shows us all his efforts towards eradicating every last cell containing Jesus' DNA.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Jesus said "my kingdom is not of this world." and Satan took Jesus to the highest hill and said he will give him the kingdoms of the world so believing Jesus is of Caesar is an anti-Christ belief system.

a reply to: arpgme

There is B.S. in your Belief System, arpgme. Hosea ha-Nazaret Caesar Ptolomaios bar David. Now that's a king of a kingdom "not of this world", that is a king of kings and the sole heir to more than any king or devil could offer. Jesus owns the devil, even Hell is his domain as well as the highest heaven. And, as casually as you would be deciding whether you'd have whitbread or bisquits for lunch today, you are ready to give this whole inheritance to the ehrm-- ANTICHRIST? Help me here. Jesus' inheritance means nothing to you?

Look at where you find nearly all Christian kingdoms and nations and the biggest Christian populations the past 2000 years: It's the nations formerly included in these formerly pagan empires turned Christian, and like Daniel foresaw, the Lord is now dealing in politics on a global scale. 2000 years and the job is almost done. Only thing left is to kick you and your likes in the bollocks to remind you I told you so.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

That's not what Revelation says. It says The evil one is controling the world and wants everyone to love money, and eventually the 666 microchip. The bankers serving the beast controls the world for now.

But one day God will transform the world to a New Earth with Love, Beauty, Appreciation, Freedom and Nature.

A simple life with God's Spirit of Love that will bring much inner peace and fulfillment.. THAT is The Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Like Jesus said in Matthew, you cannot serve both God and mammon ( money).

a reply to: arpgme

The 666 thing is just a trick so that you'll hand over all the money, property and even your own body to your given rulers, since you obviously love defeat above conquering and overcoming. However, we invented democracy and fair taxes, redistribution and interest and growth and inflasion and deflasion, ah, quite a few people will miss those things. It's like the bible, stupid, but giving. Number of the beast is 616 and it's nothing but a code for Jesus. 666 is the number of God, mind you, well, one of them anyway. By changing 616 into 666 the prophet who did this managed to shift the curse Jesus was under over to you guys, well all of us actually. You will have to be seriously deformed and stubbed not to fall into the 666 pile. You'd be a pile of your own. Dismembered. It's in the proportions of your knuckles and bones, you're f***ed.

We're all 666, but that's probably just about the knowledge you can take for tonight, so your fear and self denial should not overwhelm you to such a degree that you figure out that you have made your bed in Hell from the foundations of this world was well founded. What is so difficult with the Jesus thingy that make you fight it so utterly? Love the Beasts! Jesus orders you to. Love yourself! Love God! Jesus gave you but One command: Love Each Other! And that includes Each of the beasts and the Other Babylon and Satan and all your enemies, and all the other badasses included in the Word of God. After all the beasts are our kings and priests, our officers and police, our judges and statesmen, our astronauts and our doctors. However some of that's old now, and we have cleverer math and breathtaking technology and we're reaching for the stars. Literally... We'll find a new game when this era ends, perhaps in a few minutes, who knows, days, years, soon as Jesus would have said it. New players, new game, new riddles, and a new colour orange.

Napoleon was 666. Ghandi was 666. Jesus was 666. King David was 666. Moses was 666. You are 666. What is it you fear? Hell? Well, Hell is War, and when you enlist for the army, you get the symbol of some beast in your forehead and a gun in your hand and the power to kill those who do not carry your lion or eagle in their foreheads, and you're ordered to salute with some gesture of raising your right hand to your forehead, are you following, was there something you missed in Revelation Kindergarten, or didn't they teach you this in Sunday School? Short version is, the hypocrite hate-bred cowardry you represent here, is condemned beyond repair, but oh my, if you don't want to vote or go to war, don't join the army and build your own nation instead, without beasts, you could have a fish or an aardvark instead and wave peacock feathers instead of swords, and start running to the shelter when the war comes home. And wait them out while they take your land and eats your pork and grains and vines and chocolate above, while you are locked inside some bottomless pit eating spam and drinking your own distilled urine, ah lovely, would you be OK for a millennium down there? Can we come visit when the length of your exil.. eh zenile becomes scientifically curious enough for us to inspect?

666 + Christians = Bricks 4 Breakfast.

ETA: For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. [ESV] Matthew 13:12

ETA2: Greed is good, for it lets you gain fortune that can be used to do good. When it all comes down to the basics with Jesus, it's all about who has the most gold, you or Jesus, and the loser gets to sit in the wheelchair half shut communicating with saliva and ticks. I don't even have as much as a filling of gold, and don't really plan on getting my own kingdom, but I make a living, and that's mostly because I'm good at what I'm doing, and I love doing it, so money and gold is not an issue, hey, my king pays my bills and I live in the richest country in the world, I have a fridge full of food and a family that I love. While you wave your miniature crucifixes and accuse and curse, the kings and rulers double their riches by the beat of their royal blue hearts. And you can barely put food on your table, because money is evil and police stole your gun. Get over it. We're all 666, it's a bloody number for Frig's sake. It's not even the right one. But still masterly ordered by Johannes' and the Lord's plan of revealing knowledge to you all and all the keys you need to escape the terrors of Hell. But don't mind me, I'm betting against you, I'm not easily amazed by staggering odds.....

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Those who believe in Jesus' s Teachings know that God's love is all-powerful. "Turn the other cheek " and " love your enemies" may sound weak to those who love the beast, money, and wars, but God's love has the power to Heal. "the light shines and darkness has not over come it".

Jesus said the peacemakers are the children of God and the MEEK will inherit the Earth not those who love money greed and war who hurts others.

God may seem weak to those who choose the beast but that's because it's an illusion the beast uses to get followers.

When the beast tries to keep everyone who choose God in darkness the Light of God's Love will still be there, unstoppable, shinning through against the greed emptiness and darkness of the beast of money and war.

Love is the truth so money 666 and microchips will pass away but Love never fails.

originally posted by: arpgme
a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Those who believe in Jesus' s Teachings know that God's love is all-powerful. "Turn the other cheek " and " love your enemies" may sound weak to those who love the beast, money, and wars, but God's love has the power to Heal. "the light shines and darkness has not over come it".

Don't you spot the fallacy of your own words here? You apartheidise love here. Love for kings (beast) and their high priests (false prophet) is of no value to you, limited to some form of indifference, that's the opposite of love, my dear credo. You discriminate. What good is it to love your own kind, even vipers love their little worms and they all find lovers of their own kind. What makes us more than vipers, is that we have the human x-factor, the abilities of abstract thought and rational reasoning, a sense of justice and doing what's right, and what do you know, giving to the emperor what belongs to the emperor is wise. Now, for instance, the coins I have in my pocket are called crowns and each one contains many crowns, and they are full of all sorts of Jesus-related symbology and principles of science and all good things. Hey, there're even holes in them, working like a fish-eye lens bending the air into a bubble so I can move stars in the sky with one. Lovely. You gotta love stuff like that, but nooo, money is evil. It's all about the money

Jesus said the peacemakers are the children of God and the MEEK will inherit the Earth not those who love money greed and war who hurts others.

Yes, the meek. As soon as the devil shows up they bite the dust, inherits the world, and fire up the candle in both ends joyriding in a stolen car heading west or south or simply just down. It's fun until the shadow catches up with you and you wish you had rested instead of trimming the wick to a blazing fire of a flame. No fun until you're dead. That's the deal, but you "kill" your newborns by the Baptist, and you "crucify" yourself by the eucharist, I'm amazed there is still breath in some of you guys.

God may seem weak to those who choose the beast but that's because it's an illusion the beast uses to get followers.

Again, read what you are saying. You say «Love your enemy, but don't love your enemy», that's plain nonsense. And let me guess, you don't even recognise it?

When the beast tries to keep everyone who choose God in darkness the Light of God's Love will still be there, unstoppable, shinning through against the greed emptiness and darkness of the beast of money and war.

Yeah, it's always the Light you're after, isn't it? It's been that way since Eden. Light light light. «It's MAGIC and you don't really DIE, it's only makebelieve, and you get to screw in the streets and take police cars for a spin...». Nah, no need to burn up the MAGIC oil before you really need it. Find a zen moment or something and chill.

Love is the truth so money 666 and microchips will pass away but Love never fails.

666 will never ever pass away. It's a number, genius. Life as we know it would cease to exist, this universe would cease to exist before any number would pass away. You can't escape a number, but why do you have to fear a bloody number??? I never understood that.

They were all frauds. According to all accounts. We all made in gods image. Sons of god. You should worship me instead. If you worship Jesus instead of god anyways. Not that he isn't imaginary anyways " Jesus or god". ( Hercules was son of Zeus ) No different. Bring me your money and gifts. I will do everything your god does for you. "nothing"

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

Jesus says "love your neighbour as yourself" if I don't warn my neighbour about the wolves ready to eat them, is that love? No. Love your enemies and turn the other cheek means to forgive but not to approve of such actions.

666 is not just a number. It's a symbol for the beast and some people want to be with the beast so choose it as they lucky number.

a reply to: arpgme

«Behold, I am sending you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.» [ESV] Matthew 10:16

You can't ignore the wolves away, so giddiup and put your faith into practise.

a reply to: Utnapisjtim

And he also taught how to know wolves in sheep's clothing by saying "you will know them by their fruits" and those who love money bear the fruits of greed not love.

a reply to: arpgme

Yes, and what did Jesus do when he found a fig tree that did not carry any fruits? He cursed it dead and it withered in a flash. Being rather fruity meself, I know too well not all fruits are good. And the irony is, sweet grapes make sour wine, sour grapes make sweet wine. Still, water is the better wine in any case.

I was raised in a Christian household, and I was always deeply troubled by the divide between Paul's teachings and how they seemed to oppose Jesus' words.

So much of the New Testament is taken up by Paul's writing, and although he is passionate, he does often refer to things that are in direct conflict with the teachings of Jesus and the other disciples.

Paul never met Jesus, as we know. He was somebody very influenced by Greek Hellenism, which reflects in his own writings. It's almost like Paul makes Jesus' teachings as not relevant to being saved - Paul almost hijacks the gospel and Christianity and turns it into something else.

The following were my biggest issues (apologies if they've already been discussed):

- Faith Vs good works to be saved... Jesus says good works are necessary, Paul says faith alone is all we need.
- Paul says we can eat meat sacrificed to idols, Jesus says this is not allowed
- Paul says there is no longer law to control us, Jesus says the law continues
- Jesus says we must believe we only have ONE spiritual father, Paul says HE is a spiritual father
- Jesus says there is only one teacher (himself) Paul says there are many teachers amongst the people
- Jesus says the world is under rule of Satan, Paul calls world's rulers 'agents of God'
- Paul teaches people not to eat or socialise with sinners, whereas Jesus clearly teachers not to judge and befriends sinners, such as Mary Magdalene and tax collectors.

There are others. It's quite eye opening. Some of the issues are bigger than others, or more significant, but all these discrepancies indicate that Paul took the Christian message and moulded it into something else.