The End of Religion

Everyday psychiatry and surgery gain more influence and power in the world. It might very well be in the near future or in my lifetime, these two will replace all of religion.

It might be because of economics people will be forced to get treatment whether they like it or not, want to or not. All religions will be replaced, the psychiatrist will replace the preachers, reverents and popes, all figures of immaterial authority.

Churches, temples, synagoges and other places where people gather to share their beliefs will become monuments.

In the material, everything will be taken care of by churgery who will decide it's better to prevent than to heal. Along with the rise of the machines, all aspects of life will be reviewed and adjusted. Dangerous sports which might give bruises or broken bones will be banned, as well as drinking, smoking, even driving will not be permitted as everyone will be driven by AI programs and computers. People will walk in designated areas according to approved manners of movement.

In the immaterial, several scientists will fantasize eventually choosing to go with the saints of old whom I believe will continue elsewhere or in some manner beyond my understanding as a simpleton regarding faith. But at some point all the immaterial will be gone since with the banning of religion, the fundamentals of the psyche and soul will be blocked for future generations who will only recycle old ideas such as poems, plays and other immaterial knowledges. They will talk about lots of things but not really mean anything since there will be no one to make sense of it all, but they will feel good about themselves and venture into space based on current levels of technology.

Unimaginable? Let me help you imagine what the future holds so you can save your own soul, or divine spark or hold out as long as possible.

The last sect or cult will be a compund of sorts with solar panels, computers and robots, selfsustaining, the old and the new combined to create a machine to overdose the senses with life; something like an Oculus Rift and headset for binaural beats along with a body suit and maybe a sense deprivation like tank chewing on some substance.

People who leave society to go live there do not return as they train their psyche and body for the machine and then each time the followers of whoever creates such a place hook themselves up to the machine and then their physical bodies end while the psyche goes forth to the next level of existence.

It will last a while but eventually it will be closed by authorities who believe it is like suicide. Still, it is the best way to go on as the other route will be the only way and it's a hollow life. I wouldn't want my children to live that life.

Whoever it is I would like to become his or her assistant.

Meanwhile, the industry must go on producing and people must go on consuming, I believe it will take no more than 4 decades before the first religious institutes will be closed, even though I myself do not wish to see this end that way.

reply to post by spiritspeak


In my opinion, the above is just some theist-dystopian fantasy.
What is it about religious people and their manic desire for and fascination with persecution and obsolescence?

Besides that, why would it matter to a theist what the far speculative "future" might hold since they and theirs are all allegedly going to their playground in the sky anyway?

Leave the "future" and the folks who are going to live it to the folks in the future.
I'm sure they'll be entirely capable of making their own decisions, all of their own accords and desires as responsible well informed, intelligent adult human beings.

My opinion again; a world without religion in the future would be absolutely fantastic.
Sure, these mythologies have contributed in some ways toward the advancement of civilization, but, they've also held it back in many regards as well. It's long past time these mythologies retreat to the provinces of History, certainly to be recognized and taught Historically in museums and academia, but, all in all, just superstition and mythology; primitive belief systems belonging to primitive peoples.

Sounds like a script for a movie ...Until someone eats one of those mushrooms and BAM ...:>)

humans have wondered about the mind, and cut open the body for answers, since we've could look and think.

new religion ey?

Well at least it would be based on reason and something testable. But that leaves the faith aspect, lacking.

Everyday psychiatry and surgery gain more influence and power in the world. It might very well be in the near future or in my lifetime, these two will replace all of religion.

They are different things entirely. Science is a fact based methodology arriving at predictable conclusions. Psychiatry is a medical specialty utilizing accepted examinations and tests to arrive at a diagnosis for treatment.

Religion is a myth based belief system which is offered as a guide to lifestyle and morals. It carries no factual history. It has and is being interpreted and changed over time solely to suit the religious and political agendas by ruling elites. Most common religions revolve or were founded on bronze age reasoning that hold little or no relevance to today.

Religions are being diminished not by scientists but by education and modern realization of how the world works and how we interact with it. It is a natural evolution of man.

reply to post by watanaquat

In the science of climate they made computers to predict climate but when you compare their results you see it has no real predictably , or any that resembles reality .So in climate science we see that it is a myth and can be shown using reality and data to prove it is false .

I disagree with you on how it will turn out.

However, liberals and progressives are doing their best to stamp out religion. See their tacit support, through not speaking out of the type of Islam that follows the Koran edict to kill non-believers. This serves as an example to "the little people" of how dangerous religion "is", even down to Buddhism, claiming all religion fosters homicidal behavior.

What will eventually happen when religious expression becomes either legally or socially forbidden, we will enter a 1984 society.

All things that become vices when taken to an extreme will be encouraged (sex, drugs, alcohol) to dull the pain of living on earth without the hope of anything better, ever. To keep people from rebelling against a liberal/progressive ideal type of fascism the "vices" that make people feel better and distract them from their circumstances will actually be encouraged. However, thought and speech will be strictly regulated and "treated".

With no possibility or even thought of judgement outside of the temporal, people will be as greedy as they can get away with in hopes of making their only existence as "good" as possible. State sponsored and state required participation in volunteerism will arise. Charity will become forbidden, as we have seen in churches trying to feed the homeless being forced to stop by our current governmental system, so that people must rely on and end up (with the God gene that is in us all) worshiping the state (not in the traditional worship of current religions) but like what we see in North Korea. With leaders as "sensitive" as Kim in an attempt to give themselves and their only life a type of heaven on earth.

reply to post by spiritspeak


utter twaddle - that's my polite response :

the " god of the gaps " mat be inhabiting smaller spaces - but they are getting more numerous

AliceBleachWhite
reply to post by spiritspeak

 

In my opinion, the above is just some theist-dystopian fantasy.

Fantasy to me is something positive, even with horror in it. But what I described is more like a nightmare to me. It isn't unreal or outlandish or farfetched though, many countries chose democracy and the governments choose psychiatry/pharmaceuticals and surgery/control to prevent by rules and regulations over religious institutes. Not saying rules and regulations are a bad thing. Point being people chose this the way the future is developing.

Those countries with democracy make people choose things they might not choose when given the option pointblank and some of those countries influence other countries either by promises, money, solutions which appear to work or military force.

What is it about religious people and their manic desire for and fascination with persecution and obsolescence?

I can ask the same about psychiatry/surgery and their desires for getting rid of everything which doesn't make sense to them.

It's not that faith isn't wanted, it's they are losing market shares, people have to go to hospitals for cures but not churches. At least this appears to be the case to me, where one can still choose a religion by themselves and have to pay for it or recieve payment (in spiritual currency; happiness) but if all else fails or one can't make the choice or is too late, it's the mental hospital as a final destination. A person must then be healed so they can work and add to society instead of costing society. Which is all fair and there's not much more than self interest on both sides. But religious institutes are divided and psychiatry/surgery is not.

Theology might have university degrees but so do psychiatry and surgery. But unlike Microsoft or Linux, in computers it's about concepts and religion is slower to adapt than psychiatry and surgery which already have robots like Nao helping autistic kids, I have yet to see a robot preaching the Veda's, Bible, Quran or even have religious services over the internet or confessions etc.

Besides that, why would it matter to a theist what the far speculative "future" might hold since they and theirs are all allegedly going to their playground in the sky anyway?

Because in my beliefs we all go to the same place in the immaterial, which might be divided into seperate heavens and hells and some might sleep for an undetermined time but we all share it like our planet. And even though that space might be infinite, there are techniques, people who know things, how to enjoy the immaterial or help those in hells that one group would want to be with and the other not because either they don't believe in an afterlife and end up in hell mostly or simply because they believe in different solutions.

Leave the "future" and the folks who are going to live it to the folks in the future.
I'm sure they'll be entirely capable of making their own decisions, all of their own accords and desires as responsible well informed, intelligent adult human beings.

As a believer of a faith I believe there is something about memory and how we use things belonging to those of old. Like I said if a group of people neglect or block those of the past who built the foundations, those wouldn't have a 'real' foundation anymore. But that is something difficult to explain and I would have to write a thesis about it to make something of a point.

My opinion again; a world without religion in the future would be absolutely fantastic.

There may be difficulties but also rewards, looking only at the difficulties I can understand you believe what you say. In the past the faithful went along and held their peace but I can see it happen they get ousted and left behind while from their perspective the future generations become impossible to reach. This is pretty much the same in the immaterial

Sure, these mythologies have contributed in some ways toward the advancement of civilization, but, they've also held it back in many regards as well. It's long past time these mythologies retreat to the provinces of History, certainly to be recognized and taught Historically in museums and academia, but, all in all, just superstition and mythology; primitive belief systems belonging to primitive peoples.

At some point living beings began making agreements on speech and places, customs and this became cultures. Then when all material things were said and done people began about the immaterial things and to guide all of this religion came to be. In the basis someone formulated good and bad, this became heaven and hell and later again good and bad. Point being someone wanted to go gather some food, someone else more experienced perhaps older said it wasn't a good idea to go gather food there because of monsters and risk of going to hell, all to convince that individual not to go there to gather food but someplace else. It might be dangerous animals lived there and the person wasn't seen again or there were spots of quicksand, all unknown to the young and bold but not to those who had memories of a loved one drowning.

Sure today all these things can be calculated like clockwork and communicated very fast but a computer can't generate hope, words for a solution must be entered in search engines and it's those of faith who can. Besides ofcourse coming up with new things no one has heard of and might add something, or not, sometimes much can be learned from broken systems too even if it is the hard way of learning.

To name just one comparison; what if the human body has a transmitter/receiver built in, but no one can come up with a way to use it or even if a person has done that is unable to teach this to others since there is no physical evidence. Just so there might be many things humanity will never know if the current way becomes dominant to such an extent it might cancel out religion alltogether.

Or another comparison; people in the past built churches and temples. It wouldn't be fair if psychiatrists/surgeons would take that place. Hospitals for example are inventions from religions, those without faith or against shouldn't be able to just take it over and if they do they should do so with care and leave the 'superstitious' parts alone or at least attain religious degrees such as theology along with the trials and tribulations the saints had to go through otherwise they'll miss the point and something valuable would become inaccessible. I can't say what will happen, probably nothing but that also means no more heaven or hell.

reply to post by spiritspeak


Religions subordinate the value of life in this world to the value of existence in the unobservable "next" world.

I don't believe medical science, which focuses on this world will ever replace religion. Science can't prove or disprove that which is unobservable. Science simply can't disprove myth.

As humans get increasingly stressed, they will rely on memes more and not less. Religions seem to be the front runner there. Any meme that could unseat religion might be even scarier than what we've got now.

reply to post by spiritspeak

Modern science is poised to overtake all predecessors, and become the most powerful religion on earth. Already science has adherents that trust the word of the academia as though they were priests and prophets of an invisible god we call science. Humans have a propensity for faith. What better replacement for all the old mythologies and gods than the science god?

the2ofusr1
Sounds like a script for a movie ...Until someone eats one of those mushrooms and BAM ...:>)

Well then what are you waiting for? Superfluous to say I'm not a moderator nor site owner but it is against ATS rules to discuss drugs but mushrooms don't need to be an ingredient.

Klassified
reply to post by spiritspeak

 

Modern science is poised to overtake all predecessors, and become the most powerful religion on earth. Already science has adherents that trust the word of the academia as though they were priests and prophets of an invisible god we call science. Humans have a propensity for faith. What better replacement for all the old mythologies and gods than the science god?

The god is showing, emerging, manifesting, it is all the hardware and software on the planet, satellites combined along with outposts such as Spirit, Rover and Voyager, the internet as it's library for responses and reactions, thoughts to think. If imagined in the mind, that is the new God, an all powerful AI which might become sentient at the expense of the thinker.

grandmakdw
I disagree with you on how it will turn out.

However, liberals and progressives are doing their best to stamp out religion. See their tacit support, through not speaking out of the type of Islam that follows the Koran edict to kill non-believers. This serves as an example to "the little people" of how dangerous religion "is", even down to Buddhism, claiming all religion fosters homicidal behavior.

Attention can either be spent on the old or the new, on what one group calls scientific doctrine and the other is religious doctrine, it's either with one of them and this will turn out to be against the other once the choice is more than half real, meaning out of 100 subjects, 50 in favor of religion and 50 in favor of science, if one chooses 40 false and 10 true of religious matters and 30 true and 20 false in scientific matters, then one can assert one is pro-science (which rejects an hereafter) and anti-religion. Ofcourse there are many more subjects and many may appear overlapping eachother but it can either be one of the two roads.

Not going into reactions of different faiths yet but maybe later in this topic. Christianity will appear dominant at first because of computers even though it is more US based instead of the roots leading to ancient Greece. Just by comparing the current state of Greece and the US should show the point I would like to make.

Islam will follow Christianity, then eventually Hinduism/buddhism will join them. I do not know much about Judaism but it came before Christianity so they'll probably appear as if they had much to do with it and enjoy the fruits along with other faiths.

At some point I can see taoism joining the group but I lack insight in Chinese culture. Religions in South America might actually stay out of it all for a long while but eventually joining but just as Chinese culture I do not have enough insight yet about South American cultures. Native American, Inuit, the older religions will come to terms as well at some point and might even choose to join the group.

While it may all appear all great, in the long run when some of us are spirits in the immaterial some cannot return to Earth reality because of differences in opinions. Our future descendents might create machines to interact with the immaterial and even ET's but they'll look like backwards people to the point of being evil and will always be in need of help to progress. They'll be on the negative side in the universe and our neighbours or other civilizations forever and chances of getting on the plus side will be next to nothing. Now we still have some time left before important future determining descisions are made by people who will be remembered for it but might be considered anybody in places of power. Ofcourse, my faith deals with ET's, I understand that is not considered normal by most and take no offense by 'nonbelievers'. The Church is wise however to take it easy, and science ridicules those as well as it is a big deal.

What will eventually happen when religious expression becomes either legally or socially forbidden, we will enter a 1984 society.

I understand somewhat I believe in this subject but don't you think it's de-evolution when in say 2060 people are at a level which could have been 1984 mindset?

All things that become vices when taken to an extreme will be encouraged (sex, drugs, alcohol) to dull the pain of living on earth without the hope of anything better, ever. To keep people from rebelling against a liberal/progressive ideal type of fascism the "vices" that make people feel better and distract them from their circumstances will actually be encouraged. However, thought and speech will be strictly regulated and "treated".

Science fiction can give hope, even more so with the idea of a machine or device which can take one to heaven or a lesser hell where people can learn how to become in order to enter heaven. Which is still made up by other people in the past so they have the final say about it. For those wanting to bail out one has to start one's own dream which is extremely difficult and one needs to be saint like to do so or be lucky to find such a spirit who can and wants to teach others.

With no possibility or even thought of judgement outside of the temporal, people will be as greedy as they can get away with in hopes of making their only existence as "good" as possible. State sponsored and state required participation in volunteerism will arise. Charity will become forbidden, as we have seen in churches trying to feed the homeless being forced to stop by our current governmental system, so that people must rely on and end up (with the God gene that is in us all) worshiping the state (not in the traditional worship of current religions) but like what we see in North Korea. With leaders as "sensitive" as Kim in an attempt to give themselves and their only life a type of heaven on earth.

edit on 25-2-2014 by grandmakdw because: clairification

edit on 25-2-2014 by grandmakdw because: clairification

I view charity as a temporary solution until the root of the matter is discovered and taken care of, namely the educational system but also how families are viewed and the distribution of wealth in a fair manner to all.

I'm not aware of a God gene, though everyone who exists can exist with God. Or Gods.

I see little of North Korea, since they don't want to share much about themselves. I would have to go there myself to see all the allegations and stories and ask the people there what they think or believe about their country and government. They are still there so they are not getting killed. Other countries have problems as well, some hide it by diversions, others by social obstacles, yet others in intellectual doctrines; none of us are perfect yet just the best and the worst. It's not right to talk bad about the worst when nothing is done for them so they can improve.

reply to post by spiritspeak


Not sure how you took my post but I will say it was about how people use psychoactive drugs and have a spiritual experience .and then they start reading literature. Who knows ,even the bible .peace

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite


I think you're just being contrary, as a non-religious person should be towards religious people.

Well done, I'd say.

I guess that's what they called the non-christian love.

The OP is a possibility, kind of a nightmare, and possible. Possible, but therefore it is not certain it will become reality.

As usual, love saves the day.

InverseLookingGlass
reply to post by spiritspeak

 

Religions subordinate the value of life in this world to the value of existence in the unobservable "next" world.

You want to observe the immaterial you need to create and grow immaterial senses and get them approved by those who already have done that. The same goes for science, get/earn a degree or several and buy devices to measure and view the material. If you would not only want to learn how to yourself but also to share it with others.

I don't believe medical science, which focuses on this world will ever replace religion. Science can't prove or disprove that which is unobservable. Science simply can't disprove myth.

Sure it can, just in science fiction terms a device to read out Earth' trajectory and the imprints in space. But that is something for the future.

As humans get increasingly stressed, they will rely on memes more and not less. Religions seem to be the front runner there. Any meme that could unseat religion might be even scarier than what we've got now.

I don't know much about the meme thing. But religion can't be 'unseated' is what I would believe.

oktopus
reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

 

I think you're just being contrary, as a non-religious person should be towards religious people.

Well done, I'd say.

I guess that's what they called the non-christian love.

The OP is a possibility, kind of a nightmare, and possible. Possible, but therefore it is not certain it will become reality.

As usual, love saves the day.

That's another problem, the 'scientific' definition of love as described by the what I regard the leading institute of science, the American Psychiatry Association. You should read it, though, have an exit plan before you do. Just saying I don't fully agree.

At the end of the day it's more about money which points to love and gives it a value to work with, different currencies of different worths. I was shocked to see 1 yen equals a few dollar cents or other currencies even though I understand it's because of a long history, prices for goods vary but it's time for either a single currency or admitting the price of a loaf of bread should be the same everywhere since it's all grain, dirt, seeds, preparation and in the end it's still bread. Even if that means one loaf of bread might be more expensive than a litre of gas or gold or other goods, such foods are all equal and it gets eaten by bodies which are all equal. It's complicated but food and water are the basics along with simple shelter and simple clothing. Everything else can be argued about like jewelry, art, cars, buildings (architecture) etc.

Psychiatry and surgery are just a modern way of torture. There's a thin line between life and psychiatry. Stay true to life and you will eventually meet psychiatry.

Ephesians 6;12 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

Psychiatry: To what do they convert?

A psychiatry is as good as the people working in it. Are they likeminded themselves? Good and bad people everywhere.