It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
The TRUTH is that we don't know.
But then how do you know what truth is if truth is what you don't know?
adjensen
reply to post by Woodcarver
If you could answer these questions you could change the world.
If you could incorporate all of your questions in one posting, you could make answering easier
As I said, it is deduced logically, it need not be observed.
If we have two things, physical reality and a creator, and we postulate that the former was created by the latter, then the latter cannot be in the former prior to its creation -- that is a logical impossibility, like a "square circle." Secondly, if we postulate that the former did not exist prior to its creation, then the creator cannot be of the same "stuff" as the creation, because the existence of the same thing (physicality) would preclude its creation.
In other words, if the creator was physical, that requires that physical reality also exist whenever he does, and thus, he cannot be the source of it. If you wish to say that there are two physical realities, that which a physical creator exists in, and this one, that we exist in, that solves your problem (well, sort of -- it just moves the question of real creation one step back,) but that is not what the Abrahamic religions teach, it's more in line with Gnosticism.
completely agreed.
wildtimes
You know, guys/gals, what's really interesting here is that the OP has received a warm welcome with his offering, and the thread is still going!!
I don't think any of us who peruse this forum (or the others) want it to be devoid of opposing points of view; we just want it to be civil. Condemning and ridiculing are not civil, and not what this forum is about.
Here the man came and opened a vein. Good on him, I say.
edit on 2/18/14 by wildtimes because: (no reason given)
The TRUTH is not determined by a show of hands.
Can you really call yourself a Christian if you don't believe the bible is the literal truth.
I got the impression your a minister.
Aphorism
reply to post by wildtimes
The TRUTH is not determined by a show of hands.
It is actually.
Knowledge and truth is a human affair. There is no knowledge or truth outside of human existence.
Aphorism
reply to post by wildtimes
The TRUTH is not determined by a show of hands.
It is actually.
Knowledge and truth is a human affair. There is no knowledge or truth outside of human existence.
ArtemisE
Are you really a Christian if you only believe the parts of the bible that science hasn't disproved yet? Can you really call yourself a Christian if you don't believe the bible is the literal truth.
It is actually.
All science and experimentation starts with observation.
Your next points require that you presuppose that go exists. I am asking you why you assume this to be true.
You also have ignored all of my questions.
adjensen
reply to post by ArtemisE
Can you really call yourself a Christian if you don't believe the bible is the literal truth.
Do you think that all Christians are Fundamentalists? You're that far removed from it that you seriously believe that?
No, most Christians do not believe that the Bible is the literal word of God. Some do, yes, and those are the ones that people who are not Christians latch onto to paint us all with the same brush.
I got the impression your a minister.
lol. No, I'd probably be the world's worst minister -- I'm a software engineer.
How would you defend your views to a fundamentalist?