Americans Killed By COPS........Outnumber Americans Killed In Iraq War

TorqueyThePig

 

I have worked closely with our recruiter and am unaware of a requirement to higher officers with a low IQ.

I am not aware of such a policy either. What I hear is that many of those agencies will not hire those with a substantially higher IQ.

TorqueyThePig

So if it is okay to assume that every officer is out to violate your rights/privacy, is it equally okay for an officer to assume that you are a criminal or going to murder them?

edit on 13-2-2014 by TorqueyThePig because: (no reason given)

They already assume that about everyone anyways.

reply to post by crazyewok


Then would it be okay for the police to have distrust for a person they have never meet before, and possibly be on edge because officers are killed quite often in routine situations?

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


Yeah I hear that from cop bashers all the time too. I think it mostly comes from that case 15+ years ago in a small town in NY.

The court decision was that the police department could refuse to hire the guy because he had a high IQ. They cited the fact that he may get bored in a small town and he would subsequently quit costing the department the money they shelled out for his training.

There is a big difference between a department having a policy saying we will only higher a person with an 80 or below IQ and the outcome of the court case.

TorqueyThePig
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Then would it be okay for the police to have distrust for a person they have never meet before, and possibly be on edge because officers are killed quite often in routine situations?

No as its inocnet until proven guilty.

Your there too protect and serve. Not act like a occupying force.

If your so concerned over protecting your own skin then maybe LEO is not the right job?

Theres a huge diffrence between being alert and aware of your surroundings and being out right hostile and brutal to the public.

The police in my area manage it rather well so why cant others? Take my cousin he has a mental illness which causes violent fits. Dureing a fit he attacked two police officers, threw one through a window and went for another with a baseball bat, they managed to sudue him safely and deviler him to a mental health institution. In the USA Im guissing he would have been shot.

reply to post by doubletap


Again that is your opinion and you have every right to it.

I am not going to change you, and your are not going to change me. So I will leave it at that.

reply to post by crazyewok


Okay, so it is okay for people to negatively prejudge me as a police officer, but it is not okay if I judge someone (not that I do, I am just trying to make a point).

So you want an officer to look at someone as innocent until proven guilty (I agree), but it is okay if a person thinks a cop is guilty until he proves his innocence.

No hypocrisy there.

I think I am done with this thread.

crazyewok


No as its inocnet until proven guilty.

That is not the officers decision its the judge and jury to determine that.

TorqueyThePig
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

So if it is okay to assume that every officer is out to violate your rights/privacy, is it equally okay for an officer to assume that you are a criminal or going to murder them?

edit on 13-2-2014 by TorqueyThePig because: (no reason given)

I guess it is okie-dokie and all hunkie-dorie if you love living in the police state the once freedom-loving United States of America has become. Some will argue the US is not yet a police-state but I believe the numbers that show it to have the most incarcerated population in the world support that moniker. I used to love it but after more than 50 years of changes I have seen I chose to leave it.

I believe there is a better system of justice, law, and order that would allow for individual personal freedoms to flourish and with no reason to hate or distrust authority. I believe I have given the outline for such a society in these forums and it boils down to the duty of Justice being to find a place for everything and administration of justice to putting things in their place. I foresee a system of communities made up of like individuals expressing their individuality. I cannot see the uniformity of a one-size-fits-all system of laws leading to anything but a demanding and unhealthy society.

TorqueyThePig


No hypocrisy there.

I think I am done with this thread.

The idea of a cop whining about hypocrisy is hilarious

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


I never stated that I was "higher" than anyone, gods.. Insulting me and demeaning me all on one post nice...

I was trying to explain that as you get up into the State Police/Federal levels they require higher degrees, and while IQ tests aren't administered (I could go into many a study about IQ testing and how it's biased towards people from certain socio-economic backgrounds, and how over the years they have altered the scales etc, but that would be an entirely different topic) they do do psychological background checks, as well as criminal background checks, and even relationship (not man/woman marriage ones but friends and colleagues) checks to see what kind of a person you are, even one of those things comes back questionable and you aren't hired, end of statement.

You have consistently missed everything that's been said in rebuttal, and throw barbs whenever you can for no other reason than to cast a shadow of gloom over every LEO out there. (I refer to your barrell comment)

The problem as I see it is a basic lack of understanding of what the actual job of the Police in this day and age is, it is no longer to just "protect and service" the population, it has evolved, especially after 9/11 into a whole range of duties and responsibilities that are rather unfortunate, and some have taken it too far (I believe you missed that comment I made as well, about how I don't agree with the use of force with some of the cases I've seen listed) but in the end, it's the thought that all LE is there for is to protect you and serve you that causes this confusion.

1) While the base duty of any local LEO is to protect their community from crime, it is ALSO a responsibility to try and make sure that ALL local laws are enforced, not just ones that an officer finds legit. If you have a problem with a particular law, take it up with your State Legislature, as they are the ones that pass local laws, the police do not make law, all they do is enforce it.

2) It is not up to you or I to decide which laws are just and which ones aren't. Just as it is not our place to say "I will not follow that law because I don't believe in it.." There are many laws that are no longer enforced because they have been found to be obsolete but are still ont he books, such as Massachusetts' famous law about having to have a person running 25 feet in front of an automobile with a lantern and bell announcing that a car is coming.. There has only been one recent case where someone was given a citation for that, and the judge AND jury found it just as the person was just being a mooses dongle.

3) The police aren't supposed to be your friends, they are the keepers of public order in a civilized society, you may not like that, you may not agree with that, but it the way is has to be, lest we fall into anarchy.

4) There are many groups out there that have as one of their guiding principles to kill police, I did a writeup once for a department on these groups, and sadly most of these groups are also Sovereign Citizen groups.. A bad combination when you are a local officer out on a routine traffic stop, as such the police have become jumpy, and with good cause. I could drone on and on about the story of Al Beauregard in Springfield Mass, and the fact that he was well loved in his community, and the traffic stop where all he was going to do was tell the driver that his taillight was out, and let them go on their way and he ended up being shot in the face for his trouble, laving behind a new wife and baby girl of 4 months age, I could go on and on about those incidents which none of you ever bring up, but apparently that's ok, because traffic stops are wrong and are only about revenue..

5) If an officer does step over the line, the Federal Government has a dedicated unit in the Justice Department and FBI to handle the investigation of and prosecution of these officers. It is the Civil Rights Unit, and they, while underfunded and massively understaffed, DO investigate and DO prosecute many many officers every year for violations of people's rights..

6) The Transportation Security Administration is NOT a Law Enforcement agency. As we keep reminding their goons, they are glorified baggage checkers and subject to arrest and prosecution (and many have been) for violating people's rights.

7) Cops get shot at a LOT. This kinda gets washed over, because a lot of officers are trained to be better shots, our hots back in defense a lot of times do not miss, I have only missed my target once, and almost died because of it, we must be well trained shots or we could die, what part of that is misunderstood?

Now.. are there bad cops? Of course, and I would hope and pray that they get weeded out relatively quickly, and if not that our department will go after them as vigorously as a person that using little kids as porno stars, it makes no difference in my eyes, if you violate someone else's rights, you WILL pay for it. Have I arrested police officers? Yes. Will I ever again? probably not as I'm leaving my job soon to take a desk job up in Alaska until I'm ready to retire, but there's always the chance in the next two months that the opportunity will arise, and I will do my job as required. But.. and here's the but, until we educate BOTH the local officers and the public as to the duties of the officers and the RESPONSIBILITIES of the citizenry, we will continue to have these problems.

It goes both ways, can't have it any other way than that..

reply to post by doubletap


Are you going to add anything of interest or are you just going to put people down?

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


134,229 Iraqi CIVILIANS were killed by Americans. www.iraqbodycount.org...

Both these numbers are pretty tame from a country that slaughters that many innocents in a country they are trying to "save."

Sorry, someone had to say it. The US is way to #ing violent for it's own good, why do you expect it to be any different at home than it is elsewhere.

TorqueyThePig
reply to post by Erongaricuaro

 

Yeah I hear that from cop bashers all the time too. I think it mostly comes from that case 15+ years ago in a small town in NY.

The court decision was that the police department could refuse to hire the guy because he had a high IQ. They cited the fact that he may get bored in a small town and he would subsequently quit costing the department the money they shelled out for his training.

Surely there must be some intelligent aspect of police work for such a person to advance into. Such a court decision would suggest otherwise and would likely be a sad precedent to set and with bad PR. It might be true though that public schools and the American society in general are not particulary friendly to the highly intelligent. No reason police work should be any different, I suppose.

thesaneone

crazyewok
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Its a shame. A huge one. There should a huge drive to go back to that.

Policeing should be a gentlemens proffesion not a hired goverment goons.

Hard to be a gentleman when the criminals act like animals.

That's a cop out, get it... cop...out. Anyway, your attitude simply diminishes what's happening. You're assumption is guilty until proven innocent. In fact, our society as a whole takes that attitude because of the police and media bent and presentation as "guilt until proven innocent."

You want criminals to be accountable for their actions however the police are rarely held to the same standard when they majorly screw up. If you think they don't [screw up] then you truly are blind. There are many reports of them screwing up with little to no penalty for these major screw ups.

I also further challenge your "criminals act like animals" - violent crime is on the decline in the USA, and has been for some time. So, where exactly are all these animals?

Police violence has increased while actual overall violent crime has decreased. I think you can find the statistics yourself, trust me, they exist.

reply to post by WCmutant


If YOU are going to bring up facts then please post them, your claim not mine.

thesaneone

That is not the officers decision its the judge and jury to determine that.

Yes its courts job to prove GUILT.

Until that time everyone is innocent.

The polices job is arest suspects and take them SAFELY to court and to stop any dircet threats to the public.


The police should only use violence to protect themselfs or others from immediate violence.

They should only use lethal force to prevent suspect from useing lethal force.

Beating someone half to death cause they gave a bit of lip and back talk is NOT justified.

Shooting someone who is not brandishing a lethal weapon is NOT justified.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Myohmy. This does put an interesting spin on things, doesn't it?


F&S

reply to post by crazyewok

All i can say is how the hell do you produce such incompetent, gun happy , brutal, yahoo police?

They'll tell you it goes hand in hand with our "incompetent, gun happy , brutal, yahoo citizenry." But more likely it's just a chance for power-tripping thugs looking for a chance to 'kick-ass'.

Hijinx
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

134,229 Iraqi CIVILIANS were killed by Americans. www.iraqbodycount.org...

Both these numbers are pretty tame from a country that slaughters that many innocents in a country they are trying to "save."

Sorry, someone had to say it. The US is way to #ing violent for it's own good, why do you expect it to be any different at home than it is elsewhere.

Uh, your own link says that number of deaths is from violence, not from Americans.

Intellectual honesty isnt a priority for you, is it?