U.S. Postal Service Announces Giant Ammo Purchase

reply to post by Aleister


Heh, the first page has some great material, to be sure.

The militant preppers and TPTB paranoids are always amusing ... until their compound is surrounded and the shooting starts, that is.

I get the conspiracy theories... UFO's, Kennedy, Teapot Dome (heh), etc. ... but it's usually a small cadre of corrupt a-holes, not the whole friggin' gubment.

But when the Postmasters are our overlords, I'll eat my cap and march to my death in the camps with my bros and happily admit "they" were right about "them."

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

So you do not think the Fed is buying up more ammo than usual? Buying hollow point ammo even though they say it is for target practice....

How are they "buying up more ammo than usual"? How much is "usual"?

As for the type of ammunition:

Some bloggers have taken issue with the type of ammunition the agency is buying, questioning why agents need hollow-point bullets. Hollow-points are known for causing more tissue damage than other bullets when they hit a person because they expand when they enter the body.

The bullets, however, are standard issue for many law enforcement agencies, Lasher said, a fact confirmed by the directors of two law enforcement training centers.

"For practice ammunition, they do not have to be hollow-points, but hollow-points are the normal police round used for duty ammunition due to their ability to stop when they hit an object as opposed to going through it and striking more objects," said William J. Muldoon, president of the International Association of Directors of Law Enforcement Standards and Training. (Source)

you think there is nothing to see here?

Yes, there is definitely something to see here.

What I see is an idiot and alarmist, Alex Jones, who makes money off of fear mongering, intentionally distorting the facts of the matter (which are that the Postal Service has a law enforcement arm, and thus a legitimate need to purchase guns and ammunition,) to make it seem like the government is planning on arming postal carriers. And then I see lemmings, who buy it hook, line and sinker, who apparently intentionally ignore the facts, as they have been presented in this thread, and seem ready to go hide in a bunker and take pot shots at the postal carrier if he makes any suspicious gestures.

People need to wake up. You're being played, by the very people you trust to keep you from being played.

adjensen
Why would the Post Office be buying ammunition?

Because they need it: United States Postal Inspection Service, which is an arm of the agency that is law enforcement.

Dum-dum (aka Alex Jones) did this in 2012 when he posted the exact same thing, except that the agency looking for bullets that time was the Social Security Administration. Which then had to explain to all the tin foil hat types that they have a law enforcement arm that needed bullets.

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States. These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.

Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty.

It's amazing to me that people don't understand these ammo purchases / RFQ's. Further, people seem to think 300 million bullets = all Americans killed. More than 99% of law enforcement ammo is used in target practice. They're not arming up to attack the populace.

Well if they shoot anything like they deliver the mail.

I don't think there is much to worry about.

reply to post by macman


I remember watching that .... my wife turned to me and said "what did he just say, what did he just say!?"

my jaw dropped....and I couldn't believe the crowd was applauding....vigorously....that is when I knew we were in trouble with this guy

dogstar23

adjensen
Why would the Post Office be buying ammunition?

Because they need it: United States Postal Inspection Service, which is an arm of the agency that is law enforcement.

Dum-dum (aka Alex Jones) did this in 2012 when he posted the exact same thing, except that the agency looking for bullets that time was the Social Security Administration. Which then had to explain to all the tin foil hat types that they have a law enforcement arm that needed bullets.

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States. These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.

Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty.

It's amazing to me that people don't understand these ammo purchases / RFQ's. Further, people seem to think 300 million bullets = all Americans killed. More than 99% of law enforcement ammo is used in target practice. They're not arming up to attack the populace.

they are buying hollow points (used to kill people with)....not ball ammo (used to practice with)

Ahabstar
If they are smart they could make a killing on bundling and retailing 22LR. Go to your local post office for a block. Not like there is anyone else selling them so they could actually not have to raise the price of stamps every six months.

edit on 5-2-2014 by Ahabstar because: (no reason given)

How about that-- forty years ago that 1st Class cost could have got you on layaway for a sofa at Montogomery Wards. If the Post Office starts hoarding ammo in your town report them to BATFE. Let's set the dogs off on each other, they're all bad.

And OT, Ahab: that still of Mr. Cassidy tastin' the mercury is two stars by itself LMAO.
Fester gone green, who'd ever have dreamed of it?

nixie_nox
The USPS has a federal investigation unit to investigate crimes. It is basically an FBI version for the postal service. Most likely it is for these crime investigation groups. They occasionally even investigate murders and such.

Most people don't know about them because you don't hear much about them. But if a major crime has been committed involving the mail service, these people get involved including murder investigations.

So no, they are not arming postal workers.

there is only 265 of these "investigators"....how many bullets do they need?

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


You have to know if the ammunition is going to feed properly in your firearm. Hollow points (HP) can sometimes feed less reliably in a firearm due to the design of the bullet. Due to that fact we do practice with HP ammo to verify function. So to say that government agencies don't practice with HP ammo is simply a false statement.

I also practice with HP ammo in my personal weapons off duty to verify function and point of aim/point of impact. Not all ammunition shoots the same.

I would also like to add that HP ammo is not some sort of super man stopping round like the media and people like to think it is. While yes it is better for self defense then full metal jacket ammo, it is not the end all be all.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


Well for maths sake let us say that each agent receives 1000 rounds a year to practice and use for duty. I am horrible at math so please feel to correct me if I am wrong.

1000/12= 83 rounds per agent, per month to practice with. 1000 x 265= 265,000 rounds total to give the agents that 1000 rounds a year to practice.

83 rounds to practice with a month is ludicrous. You should at least shoot 100 rounds a week to keep your skills sharp. Even more if your job calls for you to carry a firearm. Hell, your average gun enthusiast can use upwards of 1000 rounds a month to practice.

I would be interested to see the total order amount.

TorqueyThePig
reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

 

Well for maths sake let us say that each agent receives 1000 rounds a year to practice and use for duty. I am horrible at math so please feel to correct me if I am wrong.

1000/12= 83 rounds per agent, per month to practice with. 1000 x 265= 265,000 rounds total to give the agents that 1000 rounds a year to practice.

83 rounds to practice with a month is ludicrous. You should at least shoot 100 rounds a week to keep your skills sharp. Even more if your job calls for you to carry a firearm. Hell, your average gun enthusiast can use upwards of 1000 rounds a month to practice.

I would be interested to see the total order amount.

edit on 6-2-2014 by TorqueyThePig because: (no reason given)

I am ex-military and I didn't shoot 1000 rounds in my 4 years in. I know a ton of gun enthusiasts and am one myself....I don't know anyone that shoots 12,000 rounds per year.....I don't even know anyone that can afford that.....even reloading their own ammo

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

there is only 265 of these "investigators"....how many bullets do they need?

You're getting these organizations confused. That number was for the Social Security Administration, the Postal Inspectors are more numerous:

An agency with approximately 4,000 employees, 1,200 criminal investigators, an armed uniformed division with 1,000 personnel, forensic laboratories and a communications system, and with 1,000 technical and administrative support personnel, the USPIS leads and assists in numerous joint federal and state investigations. (Source)

Now, as for how many rounds they are actually buying, you're going to have to help me out here. On the article that you cited in your OP, they refer to this as a "Giant ammo purchase" and claim two billion rounds. However, here is the actual RFQ page on the government's website: Assorted Small Arms Ammunition Solicitation Number: 3CD-14-A-0009 -- if you would be so kind, can you review that page and the attached PDF from the Postal Service and let me know how many rounds they are actually buying?

Because I can't find a number, so they could be buying two billion rounds, or two hundred, because the process is the same for either.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


I understand what you are saying.

At work we have cut back on the amount we practice as well due to budget cuts. I have also cut back the amount that I practice with personally due to budget restraints.


But shooting 100 rounds a week is really not much. That is my opinion of course. I am sure some people feel the same as me, just as others feel the same as you.

Just wanted to interject my thoughts on the subject.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


I ran a few ranges in the Army and a typical day qualifying for soldiers went like this.

30 - 60 rounds to Zero
40 - 80 rounds day fire
30 Nightfire

That was if you zipped through.

Then you had soldiers that boloed where you would send them through till they qualified and they could go though1500 rounds in a day.

Practice ranges you would still fire rounds to zero then generally a soldier would practice with 3 30 round mags at least 5 times.

So at minimum 480 rounds

All of that was for non combat MOS.

There were different ranges

Pop up ranges
inch ranges
100 yard paper target ranges
moving ranges
Later we had live fire ranges from vehicles.

To qualify a company I can't remember how much we requisitioned from ASPs, but I remember it filled the back of a 5 ton.

Now three reasons they order hollow points instead of ball for practice.

1- you train with what you carry
2- Price reduction for two reasons 1- overall shipping weight 2- "should" cost less because of less material being used in manufacturing. They are put together the same way.
3- they can issue the practice rounds for field use if necessary in case of a shortage of field rounds. They are interchangeable by simply doing the paper work.

Try to think of three reasons to not buy hollow points now.

The meaningful number to know would be the past history for purchases for each of these agencies.
There has to be a record, and how does all this that has been in the news compare?

sprtpilot
The meaningful number to know would be the past history for purchases for each of these agencies.
There has to be a record, and how does all this that has been in the news compare?

exactly right....I have been searching for this info but yet to find it. Seems like your question would put everything into perspective if answered. Not just the USPS but all the Government agencies.....but I think this is why it is in all the news .... that they are buying way more than normal.

Congress has asked why and the bullet manufacturers seemed surprised by the large quantities and are unable to keep up.

If this is normal....then why would these be?

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


It's because their starting the postal banking system back up soon, so we're gonna have armed postal workers, not mailman but the ones that already carry
postal police. And probably more when they declare marshal law postal workers are gonna have a choice to be a postal officer enforcing marshal law with other
law enforcement agencies, don't forget
all postal workers are federal officers.

Most of you have know idea what's really going on. Everything is military, the post office is military has always been, they all use to carry guns back in the horse and carrying cowboy days when this country first started. The thing is we are in the middle of the postal wars, all wars are postal. The key word is post, a post is where you are posted, like your address
you live at, that's your post, but as an infantry. See at any time they can call you to bare arms to defend your country in wars. There's all kinds of wars, but the war you live everyday and don't recognize
you even at war is the commerce wars, which are business against each other in competition. Even if you work for a company your at war to feed clothe your self etc. As for the infantry it in the IRS manual were you will find military terms
as infant is infantry foot soldiers. Your post is your resident address. By obeying there laws of commercial war by starting business going to work paying taxes and registering property you voluntary give
up your freedom and become non enemy combatant to the US. But let's say you don't pay your taxes and make your money legal or illegal they come after you with the postal system. Your at a post address your ID PASSPORT birth certificate
all are clear defined documents that you
are their property as they borrow money on behalf of the people for the states. Corporations have limited liability, sole sole proprietorship SSN have complete and full liability. So when the country states can't pay they come after you for justice which is just another word for fair exchange. The thing is this planet is just one big military post with fractions meaning countries now most united under
THE UNITED NATIONS which has its own postal office administration. Stamps are war flags of that country, stamps signify
that the are members of the UPU united postal union which is an agency of the UN
The UN. Is the power player in today's commerce and culture. The UN was created to put everyone back under the
rule of one family the Ceasar's That family has been pulling the strings since Julius. Just cause he died supposedly or murdered like the story tells, what makes you think he didn't have family. Most stamps when it started had the flag of it country so you knew what country it was coming from. We are moving closer to one world order or should I say postal system. One world currency would equal one world stamp, meaning one war flag
which is the UN that all states are a member of. That's how you concur the world.

Haute

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus

UxoriousMagnus

adjensen
Why would the Post Office be buying ammunition?

Because they need it: United States Postal Inspection Service, which is an arm of the agency that is law enforcement.

...

As we said in a recent post, our office has criminal investigators, or special agents, who are responsible for investigating violations of the laws that govern SSA’s programs. Currently, about 295 special agents and supervisory special agents work in 66 offices across the United States. These investigators have full law enforcement authority, including executing search warrants and making arrests.

Our investigators are similar to your State or local police officers. They use traditional investigative techniques, and they are armed when on official duty.

So you do not think the Fed is buying up more ammo than usual? Buying hollow point ammo even though they say it is for target practice....you think there is nothing to see here?

My thoughts exactly! Once, we accidentally used dad's hollow points for practice Annnndd learned a very important reason those are not for practice LOL

Also, if we take into consideration the other non-military agencies buying it up - then it raises some eyebrows. The Department of Education, TSA (explosive lockers), Forest Services, NOAA (Weather Service), and the USDA! I remember reports of the IRS getting armed and why the heck did DHS award an ammunition contract to Shell Coro?

reply to post by Kmhotaru


Oh I have to hear this. Please tell me about the lesson you learned and the reason your not supposed to use hollow point ammunition for practice.

reply to post by UxoriousMagnus


this topic came up awhile back when some other organization bought like a billion rounds or something. At the tiem I was a cop and we were broke so I was getting to qualify 0 times a year with my department because i was qualifying on swat. Our average cop was shooting at most...60 rounds a year for trianing....60. In the army at times we had some extra ammo that we had to burn through but a typical range day still may have been soemthing like 60 rounds with us only having a few range days a year...and in the infantry we used blanks more than anything else. I havent read the original article but id wager any agent recieving more than 200 rounds a year is suspcious and im curious if it is ball ammunition or not.