Doves of peace under siege

The article below would have caught the attention of many people today.It was also in the Washington Post.

metro.co.uk...

This may seem a strange place to discuss this incident but I think the Philosophy forum is a good place.

The point that I wanted to make is that the "satanic" black crow and seagull that attacked the dove remind me of the way that Good is always under siege. The good guys die young or are brutally stopped in their quest.

What happens in the air ways is also reflected at ground level. As you as you step out of your front door you get an awareness of evil that hangs heavily . It is everywhere ; on the streets; on public transport; in the shops. It is possible to sense the anger, evil and hatred of some people around you.

That dove was released by two children standing next to the pope at the Vatican. The probability of a predatory angry bird making an appearance was very remote. Yet within a couple of seconds two predators appeared and attacked the dove - symbol of peace. And so it is in our world. As soon as a special person comes forward he or she will be set upon by the bad guys.

My message to those who say that good will always triumph is that NO it will not happen by itself. You have to go out and make it happen. Enough of "Turning the other cheek". The decent respectable people are now a minority in my opinion and the situation will get worse. If all good citizens did their share of slamming the door in the face of the vile and the vulgar people, the world will start to become a better place.

I think we tend to put meaning onto things that really have no meaning. The fact is the dove was let out into the wild, it probably would have been killed at some point anyways, it just so happened to get killed (attacked) in view of a camera this time.

It's most likely nothing more than just a coincidence.

The only good that has to triumph over evil is the good that is integral within your own response to the evil that you encounter during your corporeal phase of physical existence. Evil is nothing more than an extreme manifestation of competition. It doesn't actually exist as a material or noumenal entity. It's a competitive response that's been taken to a socially unacceptable degree.

The birds attacked a dove because that's what some birds, in some circumstances, do to other birds. They compete, and so do human beings. Some human beings take competition to an extreme level, and when they do, we refer to their behavior as evil.

What makes humans so exceptionally evil is that they're relentlessly competitive, and extremely creative in how they manifest that competitiveness. A serial killer seeks to completely dominate his victim (extreme competition aimed solely on that one person) to the degree of taking that person's life, thereby becoming as important to that person as his/her own mother (the person who birthed them into the world). In this way, the serial killer is competing with every other person who's ever been a part of that person's life, and taking that competition to its logical extreme. For some serial killers, the sexual component is based on their need to "win" against even those people in that person's life who were intimate with them - thereby trumping even the person's own mother as the most significant individual in their life. The murder is just the clinching act that assures a permanent impact on that person's life that can never be superseded by anyone else - ever - once the killer has satisfied himself that he's won the competition and succeeded in becoming the most impactful person the victim has ever encountered.

It's competitiveness taken to its logical extreme.

Evil is just a degree of competitiveness. That's all it's ever been. Letting others "win" is difficult for some people to handle. For some, it's even harder on them than losing to someone else. The carnal "Id" simply won't stand by and allow any level of domination.

"Turning the other cheek" is literally how evil is overcome. Not the evil that is inflicting itself upon the person choosing to turn the cheek, but the evil that would otherwise respond in kind to the assault.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
I think we tend to put meaning onto things that really have no meaning. The fact is the dove was let out into the wild, it probably would have been killed at some point anyways, it just so happened to get killed (attacked) in view of a camera this time.

It's most likely nothing more than just a coincidence.

I agree. My point was that it made me reflect. There could not be a better illustration of "Peace under threat".

reply to post by NorEaster


Very philosophical response. I can follow your train of thought except that I would not agree with turning the other cheek.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
I think we tend to put meaning onto things that really have no meaning. The fact is the dove was let out into the wild, it probably would have been killed at some point anyways, it just so happened to get killed (attacked) in view of a camera this time.

It's most likely nothing more than just a coincidence.

I have never seen a crow attack a bird that size the birds dive bomb the crows but the crows don't even respond. I have never seen a gull do this and i see gulls everyday they sit alongside small birds of all kinds I have never seen them attack unless the bird has food in its beak they want.


I think it may be possible these two birds were trained to go after white doves.

crowdedskies
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Very philosophical response. I can follow your train of thought except that I would not agree with turning the other cheek.

And there is where you would fail to stand up to evil. The evil inflicted upon you would cause you to respond with evil. The inflicted evil would then have succeeded in "procreating" in a sense. It would have inspired you to produce your own manifestation of evil.

crowdedskies
The point that I wanted to make is that the "satanic" black crow and seagull that attacked the dove remind me of the way that Good is always under siege.

Except in this case the evil dove from the Church of Rome was attacked by good birds, protesting about the evil coming from the Church of Rome and their abuse of children and their cover up of that abuse.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Very possible. They could have even put some kind of pheramone or scent on it that provoked the other birds to attack it.

This is a conspiracy forum after all isn't it?

NorEaster

crowdedskies
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Very philosophical response. I can follow your train of thought except that I would not agree with turning the other cheek.

And there is where you would fail to stand up to evil. The evil inflicted upon you would cause you to respond with evil. The inflicted evil would then have succeeded in "procreating" in a sense. It would have inspired you to produce your own manifestation of evil.

I have heard this argument before but do not agree with it. You are not propagating evil when you stand up against it. I did not mean an eye for an eye. I simply meant taking firm and severe action against the perpetrator. This is done anyway by jailing them . I am sure that you will not advocate letting killers roam free.

To live our life in balance we must know when to crack the whip and when to be tolerant. That does not mean that we should resort to the same violence as the perpetrator.

reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1


Very easy to train a bird to attack a "white dove" only. Probably take a few months to have it down and than you have to release your birds near by without being seen.

crowdedskies

NorEaster

crowdedskies
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Very philosophical response. I can follow your train of thought except that I would not agree with turning the other cheek.

And there is where you would fail to stand up to evil. The evil inflicted upon you would cause you to respond with evil. The inflicted evil would then have succeeded in "procreating" in a sense. It would have inspired you to produce your own manifestation of evil.

I have heard this argument before but do not agree with it. You are not propagating evil when you stand up against it. I did not mean an eye for an eye. I simply meant taking firm and severe action against the perpetrator. This is done anyway by jailing them . I am sure that you will not advocate letting killers roam free.

To live our life in balance we must know when to crack the whip and when to be tolerant. That does not mean that we should resort to the same violence as the perpetrator.

edit on 27-1-2014 by crowdedskies because: (no reason given)

A balanced response isn't a competitive response. The evil lies within the impetus behind the response. Some cops are brilliant in their approach to shutting down criminal activity, and some cops are just as evil as any predator they confront. They're basically predators of predators. We leverage their intense need to dominate, and for the most part, it works out fine for us. That said, if these guys are actually motivated by their intense need to take on the tough guys out there, then they're no better than the guys they're taking on. They've just figured out how to be just as evil without running afoul of society, and how to make a living kicking ass.

Just to make it clear - I'm a hyper-competitive, thoroughly evil person. I refuse to compete, however, because I have absolutely no ability to restrain myself once I've decided to compete. I wish I could be strong enough to turn-the-other-cheek, but after 50+ years, I'm very aware of my strengths and weaknesses. I'm a big fan of people who can resist evil, but I'm definitely not one of them.

crowdedskies

NorEaster

crowdedskies
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Very philosophical response. I can follow your train of thought except that I would not agree with turning the other cheek.

And there is where you would fail to stand up to evil. The evil inflicted upon you would cause you to respond with evil. The inflicted evil would then have succeeded in "procreating" in a sense. It would have inspired you to produce your own manifestation of evil.

I have heard this argument before but do not agree with it. You are not propagating evil when you stand up against it. I did not mean an eye for an eye. I simply meant taking firm and severe action against the perpetrator. This is done anyway by jailing them . I am sure that you will not advocate letting killers roam free.

To live our life in balance we must know when to crack the whip and when to be tolerant. That does not mean that we should resort to the same violence as the perpetrator.

edit on 27-1-2014 by crowdedskies because: (no reason given)

What does telling people act in a severely "evil" way do ... doesn't it propagates "evil" behaviour.

Isn't punishment legalized crime.
Killers are walking free and people who are not killers are in jail.

Where is peace? Isn't it always inside you( not out in the world) ?why not worry more about getting peace in your life first. As, if you are not peaceful, how can you spread peace in the world?

reply to post by crowdedskies

The point that I wanted to make is that the "satanic" black crow and seagull that attacked the dove remind me of the way that Good is always under siege. The good guys die young or are brutally stopped in their quest.

If nature is good, then it would be safe to reason that what the crows were doing was good. I realize you were being metaphorical, but sometimes it helps to inverse the metaphor, so as not to be seduced by the symbolism.

OK, I’m not a Catholic, so I’m a little bit sketchy on the details here…

But I did managed to find this extract below, from the Pope Benedict XVI, release of doves, on Jan 9th 2012. According to the extract below, this event takes place roughly every year, near the end of January. And according to the article, every year, at least one dove, usually flies back into the papal apartment.

The pope and representatives of the Italian Catholic Action children's section release doves during the Sunday Angelus address in late January each year. And, almost every year, at least one of the birds flies back into the papal apartment.

Source

I couldn’t remember seeing this type of thing reported before, so I did a bit of digging around, because I was curious, to see if there were any reports of the doves being attacked, in the past.

I know this post is slightly off topic, but I just thought it was highly unusual, that this has either (a) not happened before, or (b) was never reported in the past.

Perhaps someone who is a Catholic can help clear this up…


- JC

reply to post by crowdedskies


At times the projections of evol can polish the MIRROR for the reflections of non evol to manifest upon.

This can cause the faces and behavior of good and non good to appear the same, upon encountering each others energies.

But it is the final intents observed which separate the opposing forces...

Also considered them being trained to attack the two doves.

reply to post by Joecroft


Thanks for doing this research. Very interesting.

reply to post by NorEaster


I can see where you are coming from. The best perspective on the matter comes from those who have gone beyond the boundaries.

I would however comment that predators of predators may be doing a good job for society. Someone who hates muggers and wants to clear the street of them may have good intentions.

It is always a sensitive issue. Some parents who have had children murdered can forgive . Others can't. Reminds me of Charles Bronson in Death Wish.

So the seagull got himself some backup this time. Smart bird.

I think the attackers where pissed being laughed at all the time. These white excuses for doves can be annoying as hell.

You laugh like that, you're bound to get molested one day.

Law of nature.

reply to post by crowdedskies


What is up with this thread topic anyway, there are now three threads on this topic at ATS. I have no idea why the big deal here, and I am not even catholic.

Was it good verses evil in the air? No. It was birds, it was predatory birds attacking a bird that is bred to be a pet, in a color that does NOT exist in the wild.

Doves that pure white don't exist in the wild because it is easily seen and doesn't allow for blending. The birds which attacked this freak of nature bred by the pope so it could get killed very quickly after its release were very common every day birds which exist in the hundreds and hundreds all over Rome.

Get a grip, when you breed things that don't exist naturally in the wild they are going to get killed, this year, just faster than others, but one was killed last year too. and probably many many years in the past since they started doing this!

news.nationalgeographic.com...

But who I am to spoil everyone fun? Apparently it is loads of fun or there would not have to be three threads on such an inane topic...

Perhaps the next topic on these doves should be animal abuse, since this is my opinion of it! You don't breed something that have very little chance of survival and then release it into the wild!