Proof of persistent contrails found in the movie Patton

I just wanted to point out there is proof of persistent contrails existing in the year 1970. All one needs to do is to go rent a copy of the movie Patton, starring George C. Scott and Karl Malden.

Besides the huge noses, you will be able to see a persistent contrail in the sky during the scene where Patton is directing the tank traffic in a mudhole. It is about 2 hours 10 minutes into the movie.

I have seen the argument made before...Hollywood edits these type of things into movies. What would be good is if someone could get a VHS and a DVD copy and report if there is any difference.

Why not just get actual film footage shot during the D-Day Normandy invasion, or the bombing raids on Germany at the time?? I have seen this footage, with literally hundreds of bombers flying with contrails covering the sky lasting a long time.

Heck, I remember my dad (who was stationed in England during the D-Day invasion) telling me about the sky filled with bombers, and the "white lines" (as he called them) in the sky so thick it was like a white blanket hanging above his head.

reply to post by Krakatoa


Any time after jets were invented is how I understand it. Contrails are hateful things on a cloudless day. The last time the sky was really natural blue over a big city, in America at least, was when they grounded all the planes after 9/11.

reply to post by Aleister


Long before jets actually. The first persistent contrail was identified in 1915.

My mum and dad also saw them over the south east of England during world war 2 as the Battle of Britain went on over their heads.I was also seeing them myself (or was aware of them) as sometimes persisting and sometimes not from about 1973 onwards,way before they allegedly started "spraying" in the early 1990s.

Zaphod58
Long before jets actually. The first persistent contrail was identified in 1915.

When, where, who, what and why?

I've seen enough original WW2 footage that tells me long-lasting contrails are real. In my ignorance, I'm guessing those piston-engined aircraft were running rich and dumping lots of unburnt fuel (reacting with cold temps).

That phenomena is totally different than watching jet aircraft do tic-tac-toe in a clear blue sky and then watch the sky turn a silver white haze in an hour or two. I watched this exact thing several weeks ago in SE Alabama.

reply to post by juspassinthru

The first recorded sighting of a contrail likely occurred in southern Tirol in the Italian Alps in 1915 when somebody named Ettenreich spotted “the condensation of a cumulus stripe from the exhaust gases of an aircraft”; the stripe stayed around for a while.

www.airspacemag.com...

It was reported in a 1919 conversation.

In 1918, Capt Ward Wells reported seeing contrails forming behind aircraft flying over them.

contrailscience.com...

reply to post by totallackey

What would be good is if someone could get a VHS and a DVD copy and report if there is any difference.

I can attest to the fact that persistent contrails were, actually, quite common at the time, and in the area that much of "Patton" was filmed. That was done in, and around, the mountains, within 50 miles of Barahas International Airport, and Torrejon Air Force Base. When not in use, they kept the five aircraft, that were to be used for the movie, parked on the ramp at Barahas.

I could have been one of the foot soldiers in that movie, if mom didn't feel that school was more important. I wasn't able to become a movie star, but I was fortunate enough to read the script before "Patton" became a movie, thanks to my best friend's dad. He was an Army Colonel attached to the US Embassy in Madrid, and the film company issued a few copies of the script to some of the key personnel before filming rights were granted.

Thanks for giving me a chance to share that memory.

See ya buddy,
Milt

juspassinthru

Zaphod58
Long before jets actually. The first persistent contrail was identified in 1915.

When, where, who, what and why?

I've seen enough original WW2 footage that tells me long-lasting contrails are real. In my ignorance, I'm guessing those piston-engined aircraft were running rich and dumping lots of unburnt fuel (reacting with cold temps).

Not so. The burning of fuel creates water as a byproduct and those trails were formed when the aircraft were flying high enough for the water content of the exhaust to freeze, PR Spitfires and Mosquitos, USAF bomber streams etc.

That phenomena is totally different than watching jet aircraft do tic-tac-toe in a clear blue sky and then watch the sky turn a silver white haze in an hour or two. I watched this exact thing several weeks ago in SE Alabama.

Due to the process mentioned above, it is exactly the same. There weren't tic tac toes in WW2 because the bomber stream all tended to be going the same way, unlike commercial traffic.

Zaphod58
reply to post by Aleister

 

Long before jets actually. The first persistent contrail was identified in 1915.

I thought it was 1917, but can't find anything online now.

Certainly American troops wrote about it in 1918

Perhaps the first known film evidence is this movie taken by a tourist in Paris and Berlin in 1936:



1:30 for a few seconds of a large contrail over Paris, with a section of the Eiffel tower in shot at the right of screen at the end of it.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


Obviously been edited in. That's a fimset in Nevada

Pre-1995 photos of persistent contrails - also includes some links to movies

Also some ATS threads along a similar theme -

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

www.liveleak.com...

Recently saw this, at the 48 second mark. Is this normal for ww2 bombers?

I just want to add the contrail in question is more than likely produced by a jet since the movie was made in 1970. And it starts at the far horizon.

reply to post by Retikx


Missions were actually cancelled some days, because previous formations left such thick contrails that turned into cloud cover. Other times they had to reroute home because of the same thing.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul


The story was told in 1919, but it was said to have happened in 1915. That is the first known one. They started seeing them above the battlefield in 1918, and they persisted.

reply to post by Retikx


It was normal for USAAF bombers like the B-17's shown. They flew far higher than the RAF and this is why you will not see footage of, for example, Lancasters leaving contrails. Flying in the daytime, the greater altitude made the B-17's more difficult to intercept, but had a deleterious effect on bombing accuracy and on the loads that could be carried, circa 5,000lb on a typical B-17 mission versus 12-14,000lb for the Lancaster/Halifax flying lower and at night. Footage and images of formations of B-17's and B-24's streaming contrails are fairly commonplace.

Retikx
www.liveleak.com...

Recently saw this, at the 48 second mark. Is this normal for ww2 bombers?

as has been discussed already - here's is period film from the "Memphis Belle"