Secretary of Defense Hagel: U.S. 'deeply concerned' with China air defense map

tsurfer2000h
reply to post by Unsympathetic

 

As I said, the Japanese should be forced to leave their Islands and they should be given to the PRC as repayment for Japanese War Crimes. I am not offering this up for debate.

So from your way of thinking shouldn't Germany do the same?

And yes I am offering this up for debate.

Comparing Japan's actions towards China is not anything compared to what Germany did with the Jews.

First of all, jews have no territorial rights in Europe. If they want to claim to be genetic Jews, they are from the middle east, NOT europe, so they should have NO claim anywhere in Europe.

Second of all, Germany got rid of Jews within ITS OWN COUNTRY. Japan went to China and carried out Genocide.

Germany's initial land grabs were simply reclaiming territory stolen from them after WWI. After the whole of Europe basically went to war with Germany, they had no option but to fight back, which means invading the countries attacking it, in order to defend itself.

And they jews were already "made whole" by the British thinking they had any sort of right to kick people off land in the mideast and gift it to jews. Which, once again, proves their idea that they think they come from the Mideast. If they come from the mideast, why would jews have ANY claim to ANY territory ANYWHERE in europe? What sense does that make?


No comparison whatsoever....

James1982
It's because it's a perfect comparison to make, that's why.

Israel steals land in name of self defense, the US has NO problem.

China "steals" land (less cut and dry than Israel) and the US has a hissy fit.

There is a big difference between what is "right' and what is "best for your country"

All world governments need to be honest with themselves and the people and make that distinction. Stealing land isn't right for Israel to do, but it IS in the best interest of their country. You can't blame someone for doing what's in the best interest of their country, but you can blame hypocrites that have different sets of rules on what's right and wrong depending on the nations involved.

israel stole nothing in the first place, if anything it was the U.N who stole the land and created this mess, if it wasn't partitioned we wouldn't even be having that conflict in the first place but thats another topic.
now japan is our ally so hypocrisy is besides the point when another more powerful nation is making claims on it's neighbors and creating a situation that could escalate into large scale war, are you saying hypocrisy is more important or that we should sit back and say nothing as the second and third ranked economies in the world and our largest trading partners bring us closer to an economic and military disaster because iraq, afghanistan and every other hypocritical action we've taken in the past? let disaster happen just to be just, fair and right? is that ok to you to let a war happen to satisfy some sense of morality and justice?

reply to post by Zaphod58


Who made it the US's business at all? This dispute has nothing to do with them. The US is not the world police...they don't have any right to dictate anything to anyone.

deadcalm
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

Who made it the US's business at all? This dispute has nothing to do with them. The US is not the world police...they don't have any right to dictate anything to anyone.

i don't know maybe Japan, the Philippines, our territory Guam and many other territories which we possess in that area and the fact that we are part of the pacific too and, not to mention the other pacific allies we have defense treaties with. besides that how is making a statement voicing our concern dictating anything to China?

Here's a new twist. Yikes.

Monday, 25 November, 2013
Chinese in Japan told to register for ‘emergencies’ amid territorial row

The Chinese embassy in Tokyo has called on all Chinese citizens in Japan to voluntarily register with its consular section as tensions between the two countries reach new heights over a territorial dispute in the East China Sea.

The embassy called on all the Chinese living in Japan to register “to facilitate consular assistance” in case of “a major unexpected emergency”, according to a statement on its website. Chinese living in Japan were asked to submit contact details of next of kin in Japan and China.

According to Japanese census data, there are more than 600,000 people of Chinese descent living in Japan.

www.scmp.com...

Woo pacfic war 2.0

Japan better start trainings its Kamikazes ready.....O wait not need its got its American lap dog to fight the war for them

crazyewok
Woo pacfic war 2.0

Japan better start trainings its Kamikazes ready.....O wait not need its got its American lap dog to fight the war for them

you shouldn't underestimate japan, they aren't weak and their military is one of the largest most advanced in the world and they really don't need our help against china, but being allies and the ones who put limitations on their armed forces it's only to be expected of us to help.
i'm quite tired of these insults like calling us a lapdog whenever we side with an ally over something, it's getting old and lacks reason at this point.
is acting on the behalf of an ally really such a horrible thing? do people want us to abandon allies just so they can feel safer or something? is peace so important that you'd want us to ignore our responsibility and let japan go at it alone and ignore it as the world falls apart if it comes to that?

reply to post by namehere


As long as your thr first one to the front lines as I wont be. I will be sitting at home and watching the chineese fireworks.

reply to post by namehere


The Japanese military is tiny, especially in comparison to China. Japan only began to re-arm as an offensive force on May 30th of this year. Just a few months ago. Building a modern military takes decades.

Taiwan has a larger military than Japan. Heck, Eritrea, with a population of 6 million people, has a larger military. If war ever came on a grand scale, Japan would be wholly dependent on their allies. That's why this is so alarming. Anything beyond sabre-rattling will drag in the big guns.

reply to post by crazyewok


really? you do realize that even if your country stays out of it that every nations economy will really be destroyed beyond any repair or hiding, we're talking the top 3 economies going at it and you think it's not your business? must be nice over there if you can be so casual about it.

namehere
reply to post by crazyewok

 

really? you do realize that even if your country stays out of it that every nations economy will really be destroyed beyond any repair or hiding, we're talking the top 3 economies going at it and you think it's not your business? must be nice over there if you can be so casual about it.

Not saying if my country statys out of it or not. Just saying Im staying out!

If a war breaks out then the econemy is FUBAR wether or not America/Japan + Allies win or lose the Senkaku Islands so what te point in throwing my life away for the already screwed up? Plus even if the Senkaku are held there no invading China its a doomed endevour one I want no part of.

reply to post by METACOMET


it's not about size, i'm talking of their training, their location, production capability, their naval superiority and their willingness to do anything for the sake of their land and pride.
numbers are nice but it's a secondary concern in the end and besides that they won't be alone so that is a moot point anyways.

reply to post by METACOMET


They may have a small military, but they are trained better than most, including participating in Red Flag Alaska among other exercises. Training matters a lot when it comes to fighting a war.

Well it appears the United States has responded to China.What do you want to bet a carrier task force is heading that way.

Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren said today that China’s announcement will not change how the U.S. military operates over what is considered international waters and airspace.
“The U.S. military will continue conducting flight operations in the region, including with our allies and partners, and will not in any way change how we conduct our operations as a result of this new policy,” Warren told reporters.
“When we fly into this ADIZ we will not register a flight plan, we will not identify our transponder, our radio frequency and logo,” Warren said.

abcnews.go.com...

Zaphod58
reply to post by deadcalm

 

So it's ok for China to claim other people's territory in the name of self defense?

The situation in East Asia that is developing between Japan and China only goes to show the two faced double standard hypocritical side of the United States which everyone loves to hate.

They back their ally Japan, against China who is claiming Japanese airspace/islands/territorial waters/what have you.

Yet over in the Eastern Mediterranean, they've put Turkey up to the task for decades now to challenge Greek sovereignty in the Aegean Sea, and claim territorial waters and airspace.
Not a peep out of Washington.
No B52 fly overs.
No warnings to Turkey.
Nothing. Just more weapon sales, more military cooperation.

They pit one ally against another.

But then over in East Asia...oh suddenly International Laws etc are relevant again.

iBallinU

Zaphod58
reply to post by deadcalm

 

So it's ok for China to claim other people's territory in the name of self defense?

The situation in East Asia that is developing between Japan and China only goes to show the two faced double standard hypocritical side of the United States which everyone loves to hate.

They back their ally Japan, against China who is claiming Japanese airspace/islands/territorial waters/what have you.

Yet over in the Eastern Mediterranean, they've put Turkey up to the task for decades now to challenge Greek sovereignty in the Aegean Sea, and claim territorial waters and airspace.
Not a peep out of Washington.
No B52 fly overs.
No warnings to Turkey.
Nothing. Just more weapon sales, more military cooperation.

They pit one ally against another.

But then over in East Asia...oh suddenly International Laws etc are relevant again.

Im guessing you arent aware the United States mediated this dispute on 1996. And is currently also handling the negotiations over cypress the last meeting for this was in 2012. So your argument that the US doesnt get involved is just untrue they were consistent in fact they were pressuring Turkey to take this to the Hague for an international ruling.The US and british were against Turkey setting up a republic in cypress and even brought it before the UN security council. So you actually ended up proving just the opposite you thought you were kinda funny huh?

Once again the US plays the "moral Overlord of the world",... ridiculous... given the countless skeletons it has in it s own closet...

dragonridr

iBallinU

Zaphod58
reply to post by deadcalm

 

So it's ok for China to claim other people's territory in the name of self defense?

The situation in East Asia that is developing between Japan and China only goes to show the two faced double standard hypocritical side of the United States which everyone loves to hate.

They back their ally Japan, against China who is claiming Japanese airspace/islands/territorial waters/what have you.

Yet over in the Eastern Mediterranean, they've put Turkey up to the task for decades now to challenge Greek sovereignty in the Aegean Sea, and claim territorial waters and airspace.
Not a peep out of Washington.
No B52 fly overs.
No warnings to Turkey.
Nothing. Just more weapon sales, more military cooperation.

They pit one ally against another.

But then over in East Asia...oh suddenly International Laws etc are relevant again.

Im guessing you arent aware the United States mediated this dispute on 1996. And is currently also handling the negotiations over cypress the last meeting for this was in 2012. So your argument that the US doesnt get involved is just untrue they were consistent in fact they were pressuring Turkey to take this to the Hague for an international ruling.The US and british were against Turkey setting up a republic in cypress and even brought it before the UN security council. So you actually ended up proving just the opposite you thought you were kinda funny huh?

I'm guessing you don't know the facts beyond what's reported in the media when a "hot incident" takes place, which I don't blame you for, it's not in your neck of the woods so why would you care.

The only thing the US mediated in 1996 was to get Greece to back down and send it's military back to their barracks. They averted a war between two NATO members. And at the time the Greek government would have had no choice but to start shooting at the Turks violating their air and maritime boundaries because of domestic pressure. The US did the traitorous Greek government a favor. It also did the Turks a favor(as usual) by pressuring Greece to back down. That US pressure only came of course after the Turkish PM rang Clinton imploring him to intervene. It's even noted in Clintons book.

As for mediating the dispute? Are you kidding me? The disputes are ongoing.
The Turks are still violating air and maritime boundaries. What is the US doing about that? Not a thing. They are happy to sit back and allow things to continue, so long as one side remains passive. And Greek politicians are more then happy to obey their masters and stay passive.

The US is not doing # about Cyprus. They, along with the British, are the ones who orchestrated the whole Turkish invasion and occupation anyway. They are the ones, particularly the USA, who turn a blind eye to Turkey's continued violation of UN Security Council resolutions which require Turkey to end it's military occupation of the northern 1/3 of the island.

They may have been against Turkey setting up a republic, but the British along with the willing Turks were the ones who set up MIT and started the intercommunal violence, by killing Turks and blaming the Greek Cypriots. It's well documented. And recently declassified documents back up everything that says it was a British/American operation using Turkey as the patsy.

Greece just conveniently had a CIA installed military dictatorship at the time too.

Grow a back bone and admit your country and some of it's allies are the biggest two faced, hypocritical bunch of scumbags on the planet. And by your country and allies I mean politicians, not the citizens, most of whom are opposed to all the wars, and would be truly horrified and disgusted to the point they'd renounce their citizenship if they really knew just how evil their governments are.

Of course, all this stuff is done based on interests.
And those things that happened were in US interests.
Just like backing Japan against China is in the USA's interests today.


But for people to sit here and act like the USA is defending an ally because of International law and blah blah, some self righteous crap, is ridiculous.
The USA is backing Japan because it suits it's current interests in the Asia Pacific region.
That is all. Nothing more nothing less.

reply to post by deadcalm

As far as the relationship between China and Japan....bear in mind the Japanese killed an estimated 20 MILLION Chinese during WW2 in horrific fashion....the Chinese have not forgotten this.

How many died as a result of persecutions and the policies of Mao? I am not making an attempt to pardon Japan, but only wondering which is the pot and which is the kettle.

reply to post by Dynamitrios


So yet another person that thinks we should just screw our allies, and forget Right of Free Passage, and let China claim whatever they want, even if it's another countries territory.