Riddle me this, o ye faithful — natural disasters

Let me put it to those of you who worship at whatever altar of superstition you've been indoctrinated to genuflect before that, as scientists and climatologists have contended for years, the increase in frequency and intensity of sever weather events is due to human interaction with the environment. That is, we pollute, ipso facto, the Earth responds accordingly; in-keeping with logical scientific modelling and prognostication.

Now, having adduced this, this proposition clearly impugns the very notion of "God" (issuing from that ― religion) because - as those cognisant of the substance of the faith they espouse [should] know - only their respective "God" can make direct changes to the planet "He" created (...in six days! ). For example:

'The earth is the Lord’s, and everything in it, the world, and all who live in it.
(Psalms 24:1)

So:
If "God" alone dictates what happens to this planet and we, as human beings, cannot ourselves affect the course of this planet's 'evolution' (pardon the pun!), and merely exist as inhabitants upon it, is the "God" so many of you prostrate to, in fact... *shudders*... 'evil'??

Or if your contention is that "He" is punishing "His" children for [insert whatever vice, "sin" or indiscretion pricks one's fancy], what of The Philippines ― one of the most pious Catholic nations on Earth. So much so that its studious adherence to "God's" tenets have overpopulated and mired the nation in poverty; in accordance with "God's" emissary', the Vatican's edicts (re. contraception). This faithful archipalego has had natural disasters heaped upon it, one after the other, each with seemingly increased intensity, as if it were some contemporary Sodom & Gomorrah having wormwood rained upon it at the behest of your onlooking, vengeful "God"!

Why does your "God" punish "His" children so? Is "He" evil?? Is "He" a sadist? Or is this just more insidious work of '"the Devil"? And if not the oft scapegoated "Lucifer", who ― we humans?? Then, if it is our fault, how can your omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent "God" exist if we mere pismire humans can usurp his control over the very biome he created for us to exist in??

And if none of the above, and these are all random occurrences that defy any metric, and thus can all be filed away under ##SNIPPED##, and therefore the universe is just a mess of chaotic events ― your "God" created... chaos??

reply to post by iLemming


Honestly, are you actually going out of your way to sound as pretentious as possible? ...because that's how you come across - not as intelligent, but as utterly self-absorbed, and... frankly, ignorant. You've posted here to make yourself sound clever with your anti-Christian, anti-God stance, but all you've succeeded in doing is showing that you actually know nothing about the topic you're confronting Christians with. Every single point you've made is answered succinctly in the Bible. There's nothing clever in your argument, just a series of hollow assertions based on your own lack of knowledge.

Regardless, here... have some answers.

"Then God said, 'Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness; let them have... (wait for it)... DOMINION" (Genesis 1:26). Earth was created to be subject to man.

This pattern, however, was disrupted by sin:

"Cursed is the ground because of you. In toil you shall eat of it all the days of your life."

...so whereas man was created to have dominion, that dominion was wrested away from him by his own sinfulness. Earth fell into rebellion to its master, just as we fell into rebellion against ours.

For this reason, in Luke 13, Jesus says, in reference to the tragic collapse of a tower in Siloam, "do you think that they were worse sinners than all the other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? I tell you, no."

As you so neatly put it, "crap happens". This is the new natural, the paradigm we have all existed under since the fall. Don't make the mistake of believing that just because something is natural, that it's the way things were intended to be. Nothing could be further from the truth.

So no, God didn't create chaos. He created an ordered world. This is why Genesis 1 is so rigidly structured, in order to reflect that order. The disorder comes from Genesis 3, where mankind, the head of God's creation, disobeys Him and throws the entire system under the affect of sin, and as a result, entropy.


[edit] By the way, if you want to have an open, honest discussion about these things, I'm more than happy to do so... but by coming to the topic with an a priori set of answers and a profound disrespect, you've already determined the outcome in your own mind. It's not us Christians you're doing a disservice to, it's yourself. "The greatest hindrance to the truth is the conviction that you already have it". That applies to BOTH sides of a debate - mine AND yours. ...try to keep that in mind next time.

Awen24
reply to post by iLemming

 

...are you actually going out of your way to sound as pretentious as possible?
...because that's how you come across - not as intelligent, but as utterly pompous and with a false sense of superiority. If you want answers to your question, why not read the Bible itself?
It does answer this for you.

Agreed. The question asked is as old as time I would imagine. Those who truly seek the answer can find it, but those who pose it are usually trying to use it as a stumbling block to thwart believers.

When it rains.... it rains on the just and the unjust alike.

Kangaruex4Ewe
When it rains.... it rains on the just and the unjust alike.

'The rain it raineth on the just
And also on the unjust fella.
But, chiefly on the just because
The unjust steals the just's unmbrella!'

We are screwing this planet up ourselves, we cannot expect god to fix it. To me, this planet is a part of god, god is the structured energy of the universe. So we cannot hear mother earth anymore, part of how she works is to share with her living beings info on adjusting nature so it can repair itself. Many people think of the earth as just a litter box where we dump our crap. It would be alright if the crap was real but it is not, it is altered chemistry.

Why should god bail us out of this anyway. The one in the garden of Eden who we call god, which I don't personally believe was actually god, was a very wise man. He may have shared communication with this collective consciousness we call god. He sarchastically told adam he would have to scratch the earth and curse the thorns and thistles since they weren't satisfied with what nature gave them. He knew they would tear out nature to plant what they wanted. They would destroy Eden if they were allowed to stay.

Look at us, are we destroying Eden and making our desires more important than the needs of the other species on this planet. God will not kick us out and he will not bail us out. We will have to live with what we have created. At the present rate of our destruction of the environment, disruption of the microbial environment, and crippling of the magnetic field of the planet, I feel that in a hundred years max before we are gone. There will be a lot of suffering within that time. I actually think we have already past the threshold of no return.

I believe We are disrupting the magnetic field, it is not a cycle. The overmining of minerals destroys the crystal structure of the world which forms the magnetic field. We are altering it which changes weather paterns and strength of the field.

God is not going to help us if we aren't making a good effort to control these practices ourselves. God works through humans and through all lifeforms.

Sorry for getting sort of negative about this.

Awen24
*liturgical proselytising*

Your hypersensitivity regarding your o so sacrosanct, tax welshing, noli me tangere system of mind control notwithstanding - a trait common amongst god-worshippers that I find most curious, given their apparent pre-booked penthouse suite in "Heaven", which (one would think) should make them impervious to infantile ridicule... - you still did not address the underlying inconsistency inherent in your so-called benevolent "God's" actions (/inaction):

Why does "He" punish the meek for the sins of the prosperous?

rickymouse
God works through humans and through all lifeforms.

So, as an extension of that, we are all [a proxy] "God" / gods? Therefore, before us, there was no "God" / gods (because there was no 'vessel' for "Him" to enact his wondrous inactions through)? Hence, we create "God" by the fact of our very presence — in our own image...?

That makes a lot of sense! Thanks for clearing it up for me!

God is not ruling the world. If he was he would enforce his standards right now. And it would not be in the condition it is in.

Satan is the ruler of the world. And man has basically given God the middle finger and told him to butt out. Well, you elect humans to rule you, and reject God's rule. So fix it on your own.

God will fix it. He will step in, but not just to fix things. He will take over and he will rule as he knows is best. That means this world, this system as we know it must go. He will not merely step in and fix things when it is convenient for you. He will not merely allow badness and fix the consequences of those bad actions.

You see, we cannot govern ourselves, not even Satan is doing a good job.

iLemming

Awen24
*liturgical proselytising*

Your hypersensitivity regarding your o so sacrosanct, tax welshing, noli me tangere system of mind control notwithstanding - a trait common amongst god-worshippers that I find most curious, given their apparent pre-booked penthouse suite in "Heaven", which (one would think) should make them impervious to infantile ridicule... - you still did not address the underlying inconsistency inherent in your so-called benevolent "God's" actions (/inaction):

Why does "He" punish the meek for the sins of the prosperous?

Casting aside for a moment the fact that you didn't respond to anything in my reply to your OP, let's examine that assertion - that God "punishes the meek for the sins of the prosperous".

Oh, wait. I addressed that in my post, with a quote from Luke 13. Nevermind.

reply to post by iLemming


why would you blame god for any of this? I suggest you read more about the subject (not just the Christian version) and learn about the other side of the coin...

the greatest trick the devil ever played was to make people think he doesn't exist...just sayin

reply to post by iLemming


Oh, yes chaos. OH and by the way. WHO CREATED IT? YOU DID. yOU ARE the masters of thy world earth, now learn. now deal withit

Awen24
I addressed that in my post, with a quote from Luke 13. Nevermind.

So, let me get this straight: your qualification for (to use the du jour example) Filipinos being besieged by all the seeming wrath of "God" natural disasters, is that all sinners are alike in the eyes of your "God" and that a venial sin is the same as a "deadly" one? So, kill 'em all ― that's how "God" sorts them out?

Dang! That's one egalitarian, benevolent god you've got there! And what great news for terrorists, child rapists, murderers... Hitler!

owtFsink
the greatest trick the devil ever played was to make people think he doesn't exist...just sayin

The greatest trick man every played was concocting a metaphysical 'Sword of Damocles' to herd brainless sheeple into the slaughterhouse.

Broom
God will fix it.

Fix what "He" broke?

Wow. How... altruistic of him.

The trumpets have told of old now mold. Thrise i gave. The spear of thor shall ravanous thy world and bring great famine and you shall see new lands spring up from thy depths of the earth. enter the head. Sorry, i post things that enter my mind. what is silent will become known which will be a sight of great significance but will not last and fade into the web, but the spider will return of venum. This will last 3 days and a great red flag will appear, aman of sputan with awards will offr an agreement but will be speared by a snake he did not see and the new wht lord will concore. The white snake will attack with a venum and the lady of torch will fall. All the kings horses and all the kings men will not put it back together again. Again, fortold. Sorry comming out of my head. A rise will come from the white dragon, a long and lenghthy battle, whos wings will be clipped from the lady with the torch risen from the dead. A MARKER: Isreal attack. Turkish bordr fail. United nations back out. MY OPINION.

Why oh why are there so many "mad at God" threads started every day at ATS? God loved us first.

He created us! Be loving in the present moment no matter the circumstance and you will be happy,
you will have followed God's way.

There's another thread blaming God for the weaponized weather hit on the Philippines. God does not
go against the gift of free will. He instead brings a good out the evil actions of men.

jesus is confucious and buddha (he walked on water too), einstein and shakespeare, plato and pharaoh. metaphorically, of course.
the ot god was sometimes jesus, but mostly not. so i don't recognize this
topic as being very applicable to christians. however, since we are saddled with the old testament and have to give account for it as a result (why don't more jews give account for it instead of letting us take the fall for it all the time?), i will say that the ot god who hates humans, is in charge of the place at the moment, and he could care less what happens to us. well, i take that back, he'd like to see humans eradicated from the planet. he's a sore loser though, cause he knows he lost the court case and now he's doing his own version of the masada complex. if he can't have it, no one can. not a very nice guy, really.

what, no snarky comeback?

i'm disappointed in you.

iLemming

Awen24
I addressed that in my post, with a quote from Luke 13. Nevermind.

So, let me get this straight: your qualification for (to use the du jour example) Filipinos being besieged by all the seeming wrath of "God" natural disasters, is that all sinners are alike in the eyes of your "God" and that a venial sin is the same as a "deadly" one? So, kill 'em all ― that's how "God" sorts them out?

Dang! That's one egalitarian, benevolent god you've got there! And what great news for terrorists, child rapists, murderers... Hitler!

I'm not sure why you're bothering here. I'm really not.
If you'd paid any attention to the reference I made - to Luke 13 - in my first post, you'd have understood that Jesus Himself made the point that the situation we find ourselves in has nothing whatsoever to do with punishment, nothing whatsoever to do with sinners or saints, but rather, has to do with the world in which we live. I talked before about the error of assuming that because something is natural necessarily suggests that it's the way it was intended to be. The entire world fits into this paradigm.

You keep asserting that natural disasters are "the wrath of God", and yet in my very first post, I gave you a reference from Christ Himself showing that disasters are anything but. They are natural, but only inasmuch as the fact that it is in the entire world's nature to be fallen, sinful, broken. Disasters are the result of a broken system; a system that affects us all. This is why Scripture says that God causes rain to fall on the righteous and the unrighteous - because these things are part, not of God's judgement, but of the system in which we live. That system, broken as it is, doesn't discriminate. It acts as it must - as part of a broken, fallen world, driven by entropy and decay.

Now, you don't have to like that viewpoint, but you do have to cede that it's logical within the framework the Bible presents... so it's probably about time you stop pretending like you're intellectually superior to all the Christians on here and acknowledge that you're stuck in a predetermined rut that not only makes you closed to the intelligent conversation you (facetiously) claim to engage in, but really only displays your own ignorance and willful misunderstanding of the subject matter.

iLemming
*liturgical proselytising*

...so... you asked me a question relating to Christianity, and you expected me to respond with...

...quotes from the Police Academy movies, perhaps...? Rather than Scripture?

...because I'm not entirely sure that would be an adequate way to answer.