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godsmokes
FANTASTIC! Could you please quote from your first post some more so I can understand!??!?
God can't be where sin is, He leaves your soul. The "state of grace" means the state of
God's presence in your soul.
WarminIndy
As soon as I saw the title thread I thought, this must be a Catholic person.
I am not sure why it's important to have saints named by the Catholic church, because every day somebody does something extraordinary that never gets recorded.
But these miracles as they call them, I'm kind of skeptical about faces on toast, but what intrigues me the most is why Catholics get stigmata?
colbe
when we fall into mortal sin with true repentance, confess your
mortal sin to God. God can't be where sin is, He leaves your soul.
FlyersFan
godsmokes
FANTASTIC! Could you please quote from your first post some more so I can understand!??!?
All you need to understand about the opening post ...
1 - Eight Catholic Bishops in a row have stated and/or upheld the statements that Garbandal wasn't supernatural.
2 - All four girls who had claimed visions of Mary have recanted and said it didn't happen.
3 - What some people call 'the eucharistic miracle of Garabandal' didn't happen. Conchita ADMITTED STEALING A EUCHARIST to pull off the hoax. She stole it and, at the right moment, popped it onto her tongue. She admitted it.
4 - Yes it's important to stay in God's good grace BUT using fake apparitions to scare people or move people to do so is the wrong way to go about it. It's building a house on sand that the first rain will wash away.
ATS Quick Guide to Modern False Apparitions and Seers
3NL1GHT3N3D1
reply to post by colbe
God can't be where sin is, He leaves your soul. The "state of grace" means the state of
God's presence in your soul.
Well, I guess that means God can't be with Christians since they admit they are sinners and sin everyday.
Is it like a tug of war with God then? Every time you sin he goes away, then you repent and he comes back, then you sin again and he goes away, repent come back, sin go away, repent come back, etc., etc., etc. everyday for the rest of your life?
Why would God put up with that? Oh, because you believe some guy rose from the dead. Makes total sense. /sarcasm
WarminIndy
reply to post by FlyersFan
How does one verify a miracle after the person went to heaven?
Then the makers of toasters should be saints, because they make faces appear on toast...
I really don't understand much about Catholicism other than what Catholics have told me, and they seem to hold different opinions about miracles. I actually know more about Islam, Judaism and Hinduism, even though I grew up in a Catholic community and went to school with Catholic kids. But it never seemed to me it was about teaching others why they did the Catechism, it was more about either "you are Catholic and if you are not, then shame on you". That's the perception I got from them. But they were kids and didn't know better themselves, they just had to listen to their parents on the subject, so I don't pass judgment for what they did as children.
I found myself every March being the only kid in my class at my desk as we waited for the others to come from Ash Wednesday service. The school I went to was in rural Ohio and predominantly Catholic. I was never in their loop, so I didn't learn much about Catholicism, but I did argue with a priest one time.
I worked as an in-home health aid for an elderly Catholic woman who believed her house was haunted. As I was not Catholic, I felt the only right thing to do to comfort her was to get her priest to come and bless her home. She was crying all the time because he never came. She was 88 years-old and in the beginning of Alzheimer's Disease. But I did what I thought would bring her some comfort, I called her priest and asked him if he could come and visit her. He refused to until I reminded him that she was paying tithes to his church.
This is what I said to him "It amazes me that you call yourself a priest and yet you can't do the one little thing that Jesus commanded you to do in the first place and that is to be a servant. I don't believe you are a real priest and I don't have faith in your church, if you can't do this little thing to bring comfort to your own parishioner that needs your help the most". He came the next day. She did get comfort because she had been invalid and housebound and could not get out to go to Communion. He did this with her when he came and then blessed the house. Then we had a discussion about prophets, to which he tells me that prophets were merely sent to challenge people. I replied "Well, you must be a prophet then because you have challenged my patience".
But I didn't see this man as higher than me in any way. He lost the argument when he was reminded of his primary duty.
The elderly lady died a few months later, but she was comforted at her last months, because even though I was not Catholic, I made a stand for her rights as a Catholic believer. What is very funny is that when the priest came to give her the Last Rites and left, she asked us to get her one of our preachers to come and pray with her. We did that, because she was dying and everyone should be comforted as they are dying. We kept her last request. I don't know what the prayer was about, I didn't stay in there. But I felt no qualms about challenging this man to do his job.
I didn't tell her daughter though that she asked for another faith minister, her daughter lived in Arizona, but I didn't want her daughter to feel angry with her mother. Surely the priest would remember me always, but eventually that priest was arrested in Dayton, Ohio for soliciting gay sex from a police officer.....darn, he should have been doing his job instead.
WarminIndy
reply to post by 3NL1GHT3N3D1
As soon as I saw the title thread I thought, this must be a Catholic person.
There was one person who was challenged on whether or not she was in God's grace, my hero, Joan of Arc. But she did something really spectacular.
I am not sure why it's important to have saints named by the Catholic church, because every day somebody does something extraordinary that never gets recorded.
But these miracles as they call them, I'm kind of skeptical about faces on toast, but what intrigues me the most is why Catholics get stigmata?
I think it would disturb me if someone started bleeding suddenly from their hands and head in front of me. I just never understood that part of it, and I grew up in the Pentecostal faith. Well, my parents weren't so faithful to going to church so we spent many years out of church as children.
Maybe that's why I think some go overboard, looking for any manifestation of something to explain faith.
I think I grew up with the dualism and maybe that's why I look at things differently?
WarminIndy
How does one verify a miracle after the person went to heaven?
colbe
None of the above is true,
the Garabandal seers, it was prophesied, they would doubt for a bit of time.
The miracle of the Eucharist was photographed witnessed by those there at the time in Garabandal.
colbe
None of the above is true,
THE BISHOP OF SANTANDER HAS BEEN AND CONTINUES TO BE THE ONLY ONE WITH COMPLETE JURISDICTION IN THIS MATTER AND THE HOLY SEE HAS NO INTENTION OF EXAMINING THIS QUESTION ANY FURTHER
there was no supernatural validity to such apparitions ... I reconfirm that there was no supernatural validity ...
"Some people have been coming directly to the Diocese of Santander (Spain) asking about the alleged apparitions of Garabandal and especially for the answer about the position of the hierarchy of the Church concerning these apparitions.
I need to communicate that: All the bishops of the diocese since 1961 through 1970 agreed that there was no supernatural validity for the apparitions.
In the month of December of 1977 Bishop Dal Val of Santander, in union with his predecessors, stated that in the six years of being bishop of Santander there were no new phenomena.
The same bishop, Dal Val, let a few years go by to allow the confusion or fanaticism to settle down, and then he initiated a commission to examine the apparitions in more depth. The conclusion of the commission agreed with the findings of the previous bishops. That there was no supernatural validity to such apparitions.
At the time of the conclusions of the study, in 1991, I was installed bishop in the diocese. So during my visit to Rome, as limina visit which happened in the same year, I presented to the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith the study and I asked for pastoral direction concerning this case.
On Nov. 28, 1992, the Congregation sent me an answer saying that after examining the documentation, there was no need for direct intervention (by the Vatican) to take away the jurisdiction of the ordinary bishop of Santander in this case. Such a right belongs to the ordinary. Previous declarations of the Holy See agree in this finding. In the same letter they suggested that if I find it necessary to publish a declaration, that I reconfirm that there was no supernatural validity in the alleged apparitions, and this will make a unanimous position with my predecessors.
Given that the declarations of my predecessors who studied the case have been clear and unanimous, I don’t find it necessary to have a new public declaration that would raise notoriety about something which happened so long ago. However, I find it necessary to rewrite this report as a direct answer to the people who ask for direction concerning this question, which is now final:
I agree with [and] I accept the decision of my predecessors and the direction of the Holy See.
In reference to the Eucharistic celebration in Garabandal, following the decision of my predecessors, I ruled that Masses can be celebrated only in the parish church and there will be no references to the alleged apparitions and visiting priests who want to say Mass must have approval from the pastor, who has my authorization. It’s my wish that this information is helpful to you.
My regards in Christ,
Jose Vilaplana
Bishop of Santander
Oct. 11, 1996