German police fires 85 bullets in the year 2011. US police fires 90 on 1 Person.

Well that certainly suggest that we have a real significant police problem. Thing about that for a moment German police in an entire year fire only 85 bullets, and most of them are warning shots! American police fire 90 at just one person...

Can our police be making our streets less safe? Can our killer police be effecting how people respond?

Source video here

This thread is about the American police need to fire up to 90 bullets at one person to stop him, versus the German need to fire one.

Oh course, it could also have little or nothing at all to do with the Police here or in Germany.

It could have quite a bit to do with the fact they have about 89 million people ..and we have over 330 million.

I think it probably has more to do with the fact cops here face people with guns far more often and so, react far differently than many in Europe where armed suspects shooting and killing cops isn't a frequent enough occurance to be downright disturbing. For example...

Germany has about 25 Million firearms by one estimate and that is legal and illegal combined. At the same time, America has between 270 million and 310 million firearms in circulation, legal or otherwise.

That makes for a possesion rate among the population of around 30 guns per 100 German citizens ..vs. near 100% equivalent ownership per 100 Americans. I only say equivilant because so many have several to dozens of guns ..so it does skew the figures somewhat.

Source on Stats: Germany & The United States

Soon breathing will be illegal in USSA!!

Said nothing in the Consititution about a Right to Breath...

Uh oh, I said the "C" word...

reply to post by Dav1d


Your link isn't working.

So I will just go on the assumption that your information is valid.

German police fired off 85 rounds in 1 year.

In 1 instance, an American policeman fired 90 rounds at 1 person.


What is your point?

Germany has more laws, more restrictions, more statutes, less freedoms than America.

America has the Constitution.

America is (was) more free.

Are you proposing a correlation between freedom and gun violence?
Are you saying that a country "less free" is safer?
Are you suggesting that people will have a shorter life-span if the are free?
Are you suggesting that more laws save lives?

Wrabbit2000
Oh course, it could also have little or nothing at all to do with the Police here or in Germany.

It could have quite a bit to do with the fact they have about 89 million people ..and we have over 330 million.

So are you claiming life is cheaper here in America, that we have so many people that a few hundred don't matter?

Are you claiming Germany does have terrorist to deal with? That Germany is more secure from Terrorist threats than America?

Or are you simply choosing to ignore the fact that in America one unarmed man can be shot ninety times by our police, who seem to believe they are Judge Dredd.

Wrabbit2000I think it probably has more to do with the fact cops here face people with guns far more often and so, react far differently than many in Europe where armed suspects shooting and killing cops isn't a frequent enough occurance to be downright disturbing. For example...

So the almost daily murder / killing / homicide / shooting / execution of a citizen by the police is not dulling people reaction to the killings? American are not accustom to turning on the news to learn that another citizen has been excuted by the police?

Wrabbit2000Germany has about 25 Million firearms by one estimate and that is legal and illegal combined. At the same time, America has between 270 million and 310 million firearms in circulation, legal or otherwise.

Once again the point of this thread was about how many times the police chose to fire on one suspect. German police fire warning shots, American police fire up to ninety times. That is far more than necessary to stop someone.

Wrabbit2000That makes for a possesion rate among the population of around 30 guns per 100 German citizens ..vs. near 100% equivalent ownership per 100 Americans. I only say equivilant because so many have several to dozens of guns ..so it does skew the figures somewhat.

Source on Stats: Germany & The United States

Of course with stats one can prove anything! Are you actually claiming to believe that everyone here owns a gun? The highest crime rates in America are in cities were guns are most restricted!

reply to post by Dav1d

So are you claiming life is cheaper here in America, that we have so many people that a few hundred don't matter?

I'm not claiming anything. I'm with Beezzer here in being rather confused all around as to what you're claiming? I don't see how Germany and the United States compare on much of anything for something like this? Why not compare the US and Botswana or South Korea or even Belize ..for all the relevance it might have to statistics.

Do the Germans have armed suspects shooting Police Officers on a frequent basis? That makes a huge difference in response as well as threat and danger for all involved. So far in 2013, 26 cops in our country have been shot and killed. 2012 saw 47 shot to death, while 2011 saw 67 killed in the line of duty by gunfire. (Source)

Perhaps they sometimes react how they do here ...because they get shot and shot AT so often.

The nature of the laws, prevalence of firearms in society and violence as a whole in all categories are just radically different between the nations.

beezzer
reply to post by Dav1d

 

Germany has more laws, more restrictions, more statutes, less freedoms than America.

America has the Constitution.

America is (was) more free.

Hahahahahhaa, are you joking , Germany is 10 times more free than US. I dont need to debate that , I KNOW.Just look prison population.

reply to post by beezzer


I'm saying that German cops shoot to stop. That they often fire a warning shot.

That American cops seem to believe they are Judge Dredd, and shoot to kill. The video give two examples in two different parts of the country. There is a 13 year old child that was shot at 8 times by a firearms expert because he "thought" the child had a gun. That many times is not to stop, it is to kill.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Germany has about 25 Million firearms by one estimate and that is legal and illegal combined. At the same time, America has between 270 million and 310 million firearms in circulation, legal or otherwise.

That makes for a possesion rate among the population of around 30 guns per 100 German citizens ..vs. near 100% equivalent ownership per 100 Americans. I only say equivilant because so many have several to dozens of guns ..so it does skew the figures somewhat.

But guns don't kill people, people kill ... or so i hear. What's up with you, Americans?


If it's the number of firearms or the possesion rate, wouldn't that mean German police is suppose to fire 24 bullets on one person, occasionally.

You guys have changed the Eighteenth, if it's the amount of guns what is killing so many members of your soceity, why not change that part of the Second.

reply to post by beezzer

Germany has more laws, more restrictions, more statutes, less freedoms than America.

Not by any stretch of the imagination. But Germany has different Gun Laws.

I know Gun Rights are for many of you the Symbol of American Freedom, but you don't need to twist reality to defend that.

Dav1d
reply to post by beezzer

 

I'm saying that German cops shoot to stop. That they often fire a warning shot.

That American cops seem to believe they are Judge Dredd, and shoot to kill. The video give two examples in two different parts of the country. There is a 13 year old child that was shot at 8 times by a firearms expert because he "thought" the child had a gun. That many times is not to stop, it is to kill.

Ok You cite an instance or two to support a generalizing statement.

A quick google search also shows that there are far more vampire-related deaths in Germany than there is in the US.

Can I also make a sweeping inference about a culture based on that?

reply to post by beezzer


Are you claiming it is rare for a citizen to be shot multiple times by police in America?

talklikeapirat

Germany has more laws, more restrictions, more statutes, less freedoms than America.

Not by any stretch of the imagination. But Germany has different Gun Laws.

I know Gun Rights are for many you the Symbol of American Freedom, but you don't need to twist reality to defend that.

Playing word pretzel is fun but not constructive.

If you think that Europeans are more free than Americans, then that might be an interesting topic for debate, but short-form discussion; Americans have fewer restrictions when it comes to owning, operating a firearm.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000
Americans are downright scary people.

Dav1d
reply to post by beezzer

 

Are you claiming it is rare for a citizen to be shot multiple times by police in America?

Are you claiming that it is common to be shot 90 times by a police officer in the US?

I didn't make the thread, I'm just trying to find a point in all of this.

reply to post by beezzer


Beez-You are thinking of the Old USA Like the 1970s or so.
Take a look at it now - Stalinist Russia was a walk in the park compared to what we here in Kalifornia are living under.

VforVendettea
reply to post by beezzer

 

Beez-You are thinking of the Old USA Like the 1970s or so.
Take a look at it now - Stalinist Russia was a walk in the park compared to what we here in Kalifornia are living under.

That's why I did caveat America has/HAD more freedoms.

Right now we're living in a police-state run by a dictatorship of ideals, not personalities.

Taking away our remaining rights like gun ownership scares the living hell out of me.

reply to post by talklikeapirat


It's not any one factor. It's a combination of factors. Tell me.. Do the Germans have citizens shooting each other at the rate we do? It's nearly a local sport in some cities and a few lead the headlines on a regular basis with it. Overall, we are a rough nation when it comes to crime.

Sure.. We could solve that. Heck, we could probably solve crime entirely. How locked down a police state are we willing to accept? Lock it down tight enough, and we won't have to worry about such things.

I do like freedom here though. I like the fact I can own firearms and in my home, not at a gun club or some 'safe storage facility'. I enjoy the fact I can and do carry a firearm on a regular basis by the permit issued in my state for the purpose.

All that freedom does some with some issues though, as the other bunny in the thread mentioned. We even ...have bad cops. There, I said it. It's out. Now everyone knows... Yes... We have a % of cops in this nation that are criminals with a badge ..and it doesn't even take THAT much looking to find them. After all, the media is hunting for every example they can locate, on a daily basis. In a nation this size, there won't be a serious shortage by sheer odds and numbers ...something other nations flat out do not have with all the combined factors ...combined factors... we do.

Such is life in a free nation ..for as long as we keep it, anyway. (When I can't walk out my front door, armed or not, as I please? ...then we aren't free. I still can..so we aren't there yet. Not by a long shot)

Wrabbit2000
Tell me.. Do the Germans have citizens shooting each other at the rate we do? It's nearly a local sport in some cities and a few lead the headlines on a regular basis with it. Overall, we are a rough nation when it comes to crime.

Another excellent point.

When I was in Panama, the team's requirements were a personal side arm, a sub-gun, and a big gun for the car. You should have seen the reaction when we stopped into a bar for a drink. LOL

ETA: Yeah, we dumped 'em all on the table to impress the ladies.

VforVendettea
reply to post by beezzer

 

Beez-You are thinking of the Old USA Like the 1970s or so.
Take a look at it now - Stalinist Russia was a walk in the park compared to what we here in Kalifornia are living under.

Ummm... That's stretching it a little, isn't it? Joseph Stalin is credited with murdering roughly 20 million civilians in his purges and effort for his version of a Soviet Union. I don't believe we're killing civilians en masse yet (even in The People's Republic of California)...and while our prison system is anything but a Holiday INN Express (Unless we're talking old Rome here), it's a long long way from the forced labor camps and Siberian Gulags of the Soviet machine in my humble opinion.

reply to post by beezzer


are you suggesting the right to carry a firearm makes you more free ?....really....what is freedom to you then?...im confused...im not having a go i am just trying to understand where you are coming from