New Yorkers being profiled after shopping. Cops check items against receipts.

This is insane. A fourth New Yorker has come forth alleging he was profiled. After leaving Macey's he was stopped by several police for about ten minutes. They check the items in his bags against his receipt and then let him go. The explanati ok n they gave him was that the storw had lost track of him on thwir camera system.

I wonder what would happen if he refused them. I wonder how losing track of someone on camera makes them suspect. Why they think this is their job, as they claimed (were only doing out job). I also am curious about how they get the info about losing the man on camera to the police so quickly unless the police work for the store OR the police lied about the reasi n for the search.

Story here at CNN.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


What's the big deal? The door greeters at Wal-Mart check my receipt every time I leave. Doesn't mean it's profiling.

rangerdanger
reply to post by GogoVicMorrow

 

What's the big deal? The door greeters at Wal-Mart check my receipt every time I leave. Doesn't mean it's profiling.

And you have no legal obligation to allow them to, I breeze by with a no thank you.


The problem is its the goddamn cops doing it for them.

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


This, along with many other threads about what is going on over there, it sounds like The US is turning into Hell.

If the stores are so worried, shouldn't they have their own security?

If regular cops are doing this, they clearly have too many cops on the payroll. They should be responding to calls of criminal behaviour, not checking people's bags on the slim chance someone might have stolen a scarf
*rolls eyes* (arghh, I need an emoticon)

reply to post by rangerdanger


I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but if not then reading the article might help.

There's a difference when its the cops outside checking receipts (not their job or business) and seemingly only checking the receipts of minorities.

WalMart can do it as you leave the store. Police doing it the street for no cause would seem to be an illegal search. An implied shoplifter of anyone leaving the store?

reply to post by benrl


Exactly.. I have never had a greeter check my bag. I don't think they do that here. Cops lying in wait profiling and checking bags in hopes of catching shoplifters? That's crazy.

What happens when you say "I trashed my receipt?"

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


Loss prevention.

Macy's spends alot of money on loss prevention.

Though normally they have teams of LP's that will watch via cam or from a distance to see if you are stealing. The LP's usually dress like regular customers. Jeans or cargo shorts and t-shirts.

Macy's doesn't call the cops unless they catch you. And legally speaking they can't stop you unless they have very good evidence that you are in fact stealing.

At least that is not what they do in florida.

However this story doesn't sound right. And doesn't jive with what I know.

As a CCTV operator and security officer. (Posh word for security guard ) we do this a number of times throughout the day when someone leaves the shop. Especially with large electrical items .. TVs games consoles sound systems etc.
Believe it or not we have some thieves who walk in pick stuff up and walk straight out in and out in 2 mins.

As for losing people on camera and missing something, the job a do you never want to stop someone who has nothing. We don't go on 99% chances someone has stolen something. Greed brings people back if we don't catch them they will return.

I admit some people get upset when we ask for receipts and I can understand but at the end of the day if you've paid for something what's wrong with showing a receipt.
This proves in a way where I have access to. 160 cameras I or my colleagues cannot watch everybody which makes me laugh sometimes as there are a lot of people who see all these cameras about and say 'oh no! They follow us every where with cameras' .. I can say out of all the cameras I use not all are recording or actively being monitored (less monitored when I'm having a lazy day)

Sorry I drifted off there, at the end of the day this receipt checking is standard procedure against theft from retail stores. Why are the police doing it? Maybe it's a partnership with security guards to crack down on theft in a certain shopping area. We often work with the local police a lot

Any questions, corrections are welcome

reply to post by grey580


Then that would lead me to believe the cops are taking it upon themselves. That wouldn't explain why these officers told the man he was stopped because they lost him on camera. That means either Macey's is involved or the cops lied (a lie that still doesn't suffice in justifying their illegal search.

I don't really put the blame as much on PD as I do the pitiful snooty culture of these stores.

These are people who believe that because they sell items at outrageous markups to idiots who have an obsessive need to purchase said overpriced goods to impress their friends that they have the right to look down at those who don't "belong."

See, I don't get bothered. I'm a white guy who doesn't really enjoy shopping. I work in midtown so if I have to go shopping I'm going from the office, and nope... white guy in the suit doesn't get stopped.

On the other hand I've seen the reactions people have described in these threads happen quite often. The reactions from some of the sales clerks and store security to shoppers who don't "fit the mold" is mind boggling. If I owned a store I'd be happy to serve any customer willing to pay. But that's not good enough for these guys.

I've been shopping with coworkers who are black, and you're going to have to take my word for it because it's so ridiculous. First off the clerks will typically be reluctant to approach the black customer in the first place. And if the customer approaches them and asks about an expensive item you can usually expect a snide remark like "oh really now?" or "are you certain?"

It's pretty pathetic and sad to see that in 2013. But the reality is if you're at one of these places like Sak's or Bloomingdale's or Lord and Taylor and you're black, you are being watched suspiciously. Period.

reply to post by ThePeaceMaker


Receipt checking may have been standard where you worked, but it is not the norm. I've worked as security and I've worked in retail when I was younger.
None of that matters though because unless their is evidence of shoplifting (ie: its witnessed or an alarm goes off) you don't stop them.
More importantly there is abdolutely zero reason for the police to get involved.
Its not as "necessary-common-if you're innocent why care?-annoyance" as you make it sound.

You realize your post shows you as supporting illegal search and profiling?

Why are the police doing it? Maybe it's a partnership with security guards to crack down on theft in a certain shopping area. We often work with the local police a lot

If you said, officer (description of person) stole some thing, can you help, that would be one think. Just buddying up with cops to check people because they might have stolen something is BS. Thanks for being part of the police state.

Hopefully people will decide to stop shopping at these stores but we know Americans don't often do that.

reply to post by roadgravel


Fair point gravel and I make you right. But what if this shopping area, I'm in the uk so as for the area in the OP I don't know whether it's a rough area. But say this shopping area is known for pick pockets, theft, robberies, drug dealing going on your not going to want to go to that part of town.
Where I work is a small town on the out skirts of a larger town it's known to be a bit rough. In the local paper I read stories of local residents wanting more police presence on the streets and town/shopping areas. So sometimes the public are asking for more police in areas. But I can't see why it's not as simple as:

Officer: excuse me sir may I ask for a receipt for the items you have purchased.

Person: yes officer I'll just get it out my pocket/wallet -passes receipt-

Officer: thank you have a nice day

For an officer or security guard to act or accuse someone of theft then i would like to think they have reasonable grounds. Which is why I said we DONT stop people unless we are 100% sure a theft has occurred. That includes making sure the suspect has exited the building

I do agree though that some officers/security arnt so polite in dealing with a situation like this and this is where the bad stories come from

Edit: going back to your original point, customers/the general public will want to go somewhere knowing the area is safe and that they can leave their cars or do shopping that they won't have to worry about thieves. In shopping areas it's not just theft that goes on. Here in the UK we have European gangs going around scamming ATM machines and using distraction techniques to pick pocket.

Thanks for the reply though I'm open to questions

Also I'd like to add the police when we work with them don't actually stop and search people on the hunch, if they work with us we let them know if it's a definite theft.
When police are in our area they are looking out for regular faces, regular shop lifters, your junkies etc. we have one guy who comes into our shop was wanted for 7 counts of theft, he uses our pharmacy to get his meds for his crack addiction.

I think where I work retail is slightly different to say a shopping complex in America though

reply to post by ThePeaceMaker


I would recommend reading the actual article then. I certainly see what you're getting at as far as "rougher neighborhoods" etc... but where I disagree is in your assessment that it should be not a big deal to go with the flow and allow the police to verify your purchases and ask how you obtained the money for your purchase. Maybe its the fact that in the UK you've been living in a surveillance state for longer than we have in the states and you're adjusted to it as a normal part of life. Here, the "stop and frisk" policy of NYPD is, despite some courts allowing it, rather unconstitutional, especially when it centers strongly on minorities and completely circumvents the 4th amendment( unreasonable search and seizure). Unless the store has some evidence that you have committed a crime, the police have no exigency or probable cause to interact with you period let alone detain you. And as for the type of neighborhood, it's the intersection of Broadway, 6th and 34th in uptown Manhattan, not the L.E.S. It's where the Macy's thanksgiving day parade ends.

I think we would need to know if the cops were being employed by the store...not operating on the taxpayers time.

Around here, Wal Marts and certain convenience stores hire uniformed police to help with security.

Does anyone know who was paying the police?

reply to post by peter vlar


Hi peter. If that sort of procedure makes you feel uncomfortable and mistreated then that's your right to do so by no means trying to tell people they are wrong.
Maybe you are right perhaps just general way of life here in the UK makes it all a different situation

Reason for my replies was just to basically give a different view and because the article is some way related to my work

I did plainclothes security for a few years a long time ago. It was a big no no to call the cops if you hadn't maintained the 5 steps:

-See person enter the area
-See person select merchandise
-See person conceal merchandise
-Maintain 100% surveillance (if they ditch and you stop them it's a big deal, like false imprisonment big deal)
-See person exit past POS without attempting to pay
-(these differed from the requirements for fraud and price tag switching)

ETA: LP=Loss Prevention that's what it was called when I did it, now it's AP or Asset Protection

If you grab someone that ditched items and they were savvy or mad enough to get a lawyer you would most likely be fired, the store would get sued (the basic settlement for us in these cases was pretty big), you could get sued personally. There were a few times when I saw someone actively trying to bait me into a 'bad stop'. We had a hands on policy (if someone tried to walk away we could grab them and use force and cuff them). If you fought with someone and they didn't end up stealing you were in BIG trouble.

As I recall, New York was especially strict about the rules for security. I don't think it's illegal for the cops to make a stop if they are acting in good faith, but the store and the security is almost definitely liable and in a very bad position if they get the cops harassing people. If the security was 100% (which you need to be) that someone stole, they would make the stop themselves.

Here's my best guess as to what we're going to find out soon. The LPs have been calling the cops with people they were ALMOST 100% were stealing, and they were usually right (it's pretty obvious when you miss someone) so there was never any complaint from the people getting busted. Then they popped the one guy and the media got involved shedding light on the situation. Now that other people are aware this isn't how it's supposed to be, we are going to hear about a TON more cases and heads will be rolling in LP offices all over the place. Cops like LP guys and LP guys like cops, but the cops who were saying the store contacted them were most likely unaware that the LP guys were breaking the rules (otherwise they would have had a different excuse or claimed another customer called it in).

Why are LP guys overzealous? Because while there aren't technically quotas, there are implied quotas. There's also a competitive streak to catch the most. It's also fun and satisfying when you get someone. I still miss it a lot. It was a great adrenaline rush.