How do I get custody of child- without a lawyer - when dads in ICU for Alcohol Abuse

I think the title says it all. Need professional opinion if possible.

My son's father is in ICU for alcohol abuse, I want custody of our son. I could go get him, he's at grampa's house tonight because of school. But I won't today because of school. I know II can give him a better home. Dad's in ICU and even if he comes home ( I sincerely hope he does) , but that's no life for a child (he just turned 15). Says he can live on his own, very responsible but has not steady job, and he's independent because he had to be I think now.

How can I get custody of this child, while dad's in ICU, without a lawyer?

reply to post by tinker9917


At 15; in most states he's old enough to legally decide which parent he wants to live with- or who to have as his guardian, if his grandparents are willing to take him in.

You'd have to talk to him and find out what forms he needs to fill out.

You might not be able to get around a family court session, though, as he may have to announce his decision in front of a judge. I don't see why this would require an attorney.

tinker9917
I think the title says it all. Need professional opinion if possible.

My son's father is in ICU for alcohol abuse, I want custody of our son. I could go get him, he's at grampa's house tonight because of school. But I won't today because of school. I know II can give him a better home. Dad's in ICU and even if he comes home ( I sincerely hope he does) , but that's no life for a child (he just turned 15). Says he can live on his own, very responsible but has not steady job, and he's independent because he had to be I think now.

How can I get custody of this child, while dad's in ICU, without a lawyer?

Oh man, this is a very tricky problem.

I assume that there has been some falling out and legal troubles leading to your not having custody (which would be the ordinary outcome otherwise) so that makes this exceptionally prickly.

I recommend to everyone, whatever the difficulty, if there is a way to address the problem or find a solution without involving the state at all, that is the preferred action or path. You simply do not know what will happen when you involve the state in your life in any way. Correction, you can probably safely assume that the solution will be worse than the original problem.

Since the grandparents are involved already, that would be the preferred temporary solution. You may need to appeal to them, for the sake of their grandson, to host him for the time being. If there is any possibility that taking him home with you will lead to state involvement, you must refrain.

I know that isn't what you wanted to hear but, it is the unfortunate truth. I wish you and your family all the best.

reply to post by greencmp


I called my dad (grampa) (same schools district) where he will be staying tonite, myself, until I can figure all this out.

I let my chid stay there, a farm and small school district, because he wanted. But - not in his best interest anymore obviously.

reply to post by tinker9917


Am not sure of legalities . . . am no atny.

And I'm no fan of Child Protective Services in some situations.

However, that may be your only option.

There are atnys who give pro bono service in such situations in some areas.

I hope you and your son will read at least

teacher.scholastic.com...


Attachment: The First Core Strength

By Bruce Duncan Perry, M.D., Ph.D.

. . .

When attachment capacity develops normally, the child gets pleasure from interacting with other people. The degree of pleasure is related to the degree of attachment-pleasing a parent brings more pleasure than pleasing a stranger. It is this very property that helps parents and teachers shape pro-social and social behaviors in a child. In the process of teaching children emotional, social, and cognitive tasks, the strongest rewards for a child are the attention, approval, and recognition of success that the parent or teacher can give. Conversely, when a child feels he have displeased a parent or teacher, he can be devastated.

. . .

When Attachment Goes Wrong
If a child has few positive relationships in early childhood or has had a bad start due to problems with the primary-caregiving experiences of infancy, this child is at risk for a host of problems. In a very real sense, the glue of normal human interactions is gone. A child with poor attachment capacity is much harder to "shape" and teach. This child will feel little pleasure from the teacher's smile or approving words. And he does not feel bad disappointing, angering, or upsetting a parent or teacher. Without the capacity to use human interactions to "reward" and "punish," the teacher and parent often are confused and frustrated in their attempts to promote appropriate social behavior. In extreme cases, the child with poor attachment capacity demonstrates no remorse when harming others and risk developing further anti-social or even aggressive and violent behaviors. This child needs help. Research and clinical experience show that attachment capacity is easiest to shape if early identification and intervention takes place.
What you can do to promote the development of healthy attachment:

• Smile and look children in the eyes as you greet them
• Spend time with the child. Quantity matters. During this time, get on the floor, listen and establish eye contact.
• Use touch to comfort-even as a pre-school teacher, it is appropriate to hug, gently touch a shoulder, or hold hands.
• Help children learn appropriate social-emotional language (how close to stand, how to use eye contact, when to touch, how to touch).
• Remember that there are many styles of forming and maintaining relationships-a shy child is not an unattached child. If you sense a child is having a hard time engaging others, help facilitate this by actively including her or pairing her with another child who has a matching temperament.

I realize that he's older than would fit some of the suggestions above. However, I hope touch is a frequent positive thing.

and if possible

ATTACHMENTS: WHY YOU LOVE, FEEL AND ACT THE WAY YOU DO

www.amazon.com...=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1339042498&sr=1-2

The best to you and your son. What a horrific situation.

Sigh.

reply to post by greencmp


I think you are exactly right.

I'd involve the State as a last resort. Real last resort.

Hushabye
reply to post by tinker9917

 

At 15; in most states he's old enough to legally decide which parent he wants to live with- or who to have as his guardian, if his grandparents are willing to take him in.

You'd have to talk to him and find out what forms he needs to fill out.

You might not be able to get around a family court session, though, as he may have to announce his decision in front of a judge. I don't see why this would require an attorney.

INDEED. I'd forgotten about that option.

Though I'd wonder about how mature and responsible he was etc.

I'm not a lawyer but if you were to take your son while the father is unaware, it might be kidnapping.

The law defines kidnapping as transporting someone from one location to another. It's a felony.

If you don't have custody rights in the first place. Then again his age plays a role. 15 isn't a small child who isn't able to decide.
A family law judge needs to approve it I would think, to see who is the better parent, otherwise you are breaking the law.

It depends. Was he awarded full custody, if so why weren't you?

Try to find a free lawyer.

Considering his Dad is in ICU for alcoholism, I can't see why the courts wouldn't grant you legal custody.
Unless there's some reason why you think they wouldn't?
I'm not about to pry into your personal life, it's none of mine, or anyone else on here's business.
But not knowing the full facts of why you didn't get custody in the first place, I can't help but wonder if there is a reason why you want to do it "under the radar" so to speak.
Please, don't be offended by what I have said, I'm not for one minute saying you are an unfit parent, I don't have any real details about your case, I'm just thinking out loud.

TheOutcast
But not knowing the full facts of why you didn't get custody in the first place...

That was also my first thought. Its rather well known that courts tend to favour the mother, but in this case it wasnt done. I wont ask why.

violet
I'm not a lawyer but if you were to take your son while the father is unaware, it might be kidnapping.

The law defines kidnapping as transporting someone from one location to another. It's a felony.

If you don't have custody rights in the first place. Then again his age plays a role. 15 isn't a small child who isn't able to decide.
A family law judge needs to approve it I would think, to see who is the better parent, otherwise you are breaking the law.

It depends. Was he awarded full custody, if so why weren't you?

Try to find a free lawyer.

edit on 22-9-2013 by violet because: (no reason given)

Indeed, this is what I was worried about. Kidnapping charges or what not.

alfa1

TheOutcast
But not knowing the full facts of why you didn't get custody in the first place...

That was also my first thought. Its rather well known that courts tend to favour the mother, but in this case it wasnt done. I wont ask why.

Not everyone fights for custody.... they decide between themselves what is is best for the child... not everyone fights. But, maybe I should have...

I just want to know how to do this without the expense of a lawyer, which would leave us pennyless for... forever.

I love "dad", don't wanna hurt him or "mow him over with a lawyer" which I'm sure I could at this point. I don't want to though.

Please, can anyone help here. I don't wanna turn to the "STATE". But maybe it's time... the older son, now 17 has been removed twice ( bi-polar problems, etc) and is currently in Residential Treatment for the third time. Think anybody listens???? NO.....

reply to post by tinker9917


Well first I need to know if there is a court order in place. Were you 2 married and legally divorce?

tinker9917
I just want to know how to do this without the expense of a lawyer, which would leave us pennyless for... forever.

I love "dad", don't wanna hurt him or "mow him over with a lawyer" which I'm sure I could at this point. I don't want to though.

I know it sounds harsh, but the only one you need to think of here is your son, you need to do whatever it takes to ensure he's safe and happy.
If that means using a lawyer, then so be it.

The cost is another matter entirely, as a non US citizen, I don't know how your system works.

I hope everything works out for you all, I really do, as a Father of four, I couldn't begin to imagine what you must be going through.

Good luck

reply to post by Bone75


Than you, yest court ordered custody, we are divorced.

TheOutcast

tinker9917
I just want to know how to do this without the expense of a lawyer, which would leave us pennyless for... forever.

I love "dad", don't wanna hurt him or "mow him over with a lawyer" which I'm sure I could at this point. I don't want to though.

I know it sounds harsh, but the only one you need to think of here is your son, you need to do whatever it takes to ensure he's safe and happy.
If that means using a lawyer, then so be it.

The cost is another matter entirely, as a non US citizen, I don't know how your system works.

I hope everything works out for you all, I really do, as a Father of four, I couldn't begin to imagine what you must be going through.

Good luck

I can't do it at the expense of my two daughters, can't leave them hungry and homeless.

reply to post by tinker9917


I 'hear' your anguish over finances and doing good for all your offspring . . . and preserving the healthy home context for your daughters etc.

What a horrific situation to be in.

I knew of one poor client in San Diego who was a magnificently persistent, dogged, resourceful mother who read law in the library and represented herself in multiple court situations to amazing success. I don't know how much that might do in your situation.

There must be some pro-bono atnys available to you if you search around creatively enough.

IF the court order was mostly agreeable and mostly a formality . . . perhaps you could go back to the same judge and appraise him of the new situation and ask for a change in the legal orders. I can't see that writing the judge or his successor would be wrong either. The worst that could happen is no response, imho. Though I certainly don't know that. Just my layman's guess.

It sounded like you perhaps went with the son going with the dad because logically, sons need dads perhaps more than daughters do. If so, certainly any rational judge should appreciate the change in contingencies with the dad's raging alcoholism.

Is the father likely to be antagonistic? Or compliant? IF compliant, perhaps merely an affidavit signed by him would be sufficient to take to a judge.

Perhaps merely presenting the situation to the same judge as was originally involved orally in person or by a letter might do. I don't know. But you are bright enough and caring enough, I think you will be able to ferret out the best course of action for yourself and the son.

IF the grandparents are decent and reasonable authorities . . . let them stand up to the needs at hand and do their part as well.

Probably the son could add his comments and requests to good effect IF he is at all responsible and the least bit mature.

Anyway--pulling for you. NO fun to resolve such challenging situations.

Blessings to you and those you love.

reply to post by tinker9917


There is plenty of free legal advice. You need a lawyer to tell you your options. Not ATS members!!!


www.freeadvice.com...