It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
ZiggyMojo
I was relatively quiet during the Sandy Hook incident on the forums. It took me back to the Dark Knight shootings earlier that year in which I witnessed a very strange and unbelievable chain of events. I witnessed and evidenced the media lying, changing the story and making no redactions. They were simply discarding information whether it was true or not, muddying the facts with fiction and diluting the truth to the point that nobody knew what was real and what wasn't.
I think it's been a long standing problem with media outlets in the US specifically. It was apparent during Sandy Hook and so much so that I tuned out. I couldn't bare to watch the story unfold, and the deaths their used as collateral for an anti-gun movement. It was disgusting, no matter who did it.. It was heinous and vile.
I am in agreement that there is a difference between denial and conspiracy. Generally, my "conspiracy theories" don't surmise that NOTHING happened, but rather something happened but not the way we've been told. The true motives or true events are not revealed to us. There were no doubt deaths on that day and the people who believe otherwise are truly hopeless.
What didn't (in my opinion) happen.. Are the elements of the "official" story. The real motive hasn't been released and who was involved never will be in my opinion. There were so many holes in the "official" story that it would make less sense to believe it than to speculate to some extent. The story was sensationalized and hashed over and over for 2 months. The media twisted the facts, reported fallacies and never differentiated the truth. The people are OWED an explanation, most specifically the families and community of Sandy Hook. It has been long enough. If the story was as cut and dry as they stated, then the work involved to examine and produce the story to the public would have been done long ago.
I think we're seeing a delay because everyone is aware of how critical the public is growing in events like these. As they say.. "The Devil is in the Details" and they don't want the details to damn them. If the public was aware of any lies or lack of integrity in a case like this.. The media would lose so much of their hypnotic grasp and all of their benefactors would relinquish some amount of their control/power.
Did it happen? Hell yes it did. If you believe otherwise then you are out of touch with reality. The people who believe it didn't happen at all or that no one was killed are the "crazies". They are the people that give the Conspiracy Theorists a bad name, and the same people that the media focuses on when any light is brought to this realm of thinking.
Did it happen the way it was reported, or the way that law enforcement has hinted? I don't believe it for a second. There are far too many inconsistencies and holes. The theatrics in the media and by our own president were over the top. There was no delay in the government's reaction to utilizing the events as political fodder for their own agendas. No matter what we've been told, or will be told.. I am confident that the full truth will never be revealed "officially". So, it still remains a challenge of the public to uncover the truth, but it must be done tastefully and with respect to the fallen. As harsh as it may sound, one life is not worth more than another. It may be hard to talk about Sandy Hook in particular because children were the majority of deaths, but far more children died in 9/11 and the events that followed and we're able to discuss those events more openly. The forum was built on denying ignorance, and if that means disproving the ignorant folks who propose completely ignorant and ludicrous ideas and conspiracies.. Then that to is our duty. The duty is truth. Censoring discussion doesn't abate lunacy or ignorance. It serves to promote it, because there is no resolution or truth given. I can't say that I agree with a lot of what people have proposed as conspiracies but part recognizing the truth is disproving conspiracies presented as truth.
As a long standing and contributing member (not as much as others of course).. I think moving this thread to the "LOL" section is just as distasteful as the people denying children died. You're denying the forum the ability to express the very thing the forum was built on. I don't care if I step on toes saying this..
The only "LOL" I get out of this is the way it is being handled by the staff at ATS.edit on 23-9-2013 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)
notquitesure
ZiggyMojo
I was relatively quiet during the Sandy Hook incident on the forums. It took me back to the Dark Knight shootings earlier that year in which I witnessed a very strange and unbelievable chain of events. I witnessed and evidenced the media lying, changing the story and making no redactions. They were simply discarding information whether it was true or not, muddying the facts with fiction and diluting the truth to the point that nobody knew what was real and what wasn't.
I think it's been a long standing problem with media outlets in the US specifically. It was apparent during Sandy Hook and so much so that I tuned out. I couldn't bare to watch the story unfold, and the deaths their used as collateral for an anti-gun movement. It was disgusting, no matter who did it.. It was heinous and vile.
I am in agreement that there is a difference between denial and conspiracy. Generally, my "conspiracy theories" don't surmise that NOTHING happened, but rather something happened but not the way we've been told. The true motives or true events are not revealed to us. There were no doubt deaths on that day and the people who believe otherwise are truly hopeless.
What didn't (in my opinion) happen.. Are the elements of the "official" story. The real motive hasn't been released and who was involved never will be in my opinion. There were so many holes in the "official" story that it would make less sense to believe it than to speculate to some extent. The story was sensationalized and hashed over and over for 2 months. The media twisted the facts, reported fallacies and never differentiated the truth. The people are OWED an explanation, most specifically the families and community of Sandy Hook. It has been long enough. If the story was as cut and dry as they stated, then the work involved to examine and produce the story to the public would have been done long ago.
I think we're seeing a delay because everyone is aware of how critical the public is growing in events like these. As they say.. "The Devil is in the Details" and they don't want the details to damn them. If the public was aware of any lies or lack of integrity in a case like this.. The media would lose so much of their hypnotic grasp and all of their benefactors would relinquish some amount of their control/power.
Did it happen? Hell yes it did. If you believe otherwise then you are out of touch with reality. The people who believe it didn't happen at all or that no one was killed are the "crazies". They are the people that give the Conspiracy Theorists a bad name, and the same people that the media focuses on when any light is brought to this realm of thinking.
Did it happen the way it was reported, or the way that law enforcement has hinted? I don't believe it for a second. There are far too many inconsistencies and holes. The theatrics in the media and by our own president were over the top. There was no delay in the government's reaction to utilizing the events as political fodder for their own agendas. No matter what we've been told, or will be told.. I am confident that the full truth will never be revealed "officially". So, it still remains a challenge of the public to uncover the truth, but it must be done tastefully and with respect to the fallen. As harsh as it may sound, one life is not worth more than another. It may be hard to talk about Sandy Hook in particular because children were the majority of deaths, but far more children died in 9/11 and the events that followed and we're able to discuss those events more openly. The forum was built on denying ignorance, and if that means disproving the ignorant folks who propose completely ignorant and ludicrous ideas and conspiracies.. Then that to is our duty. The duty is truth. Censoring discussion doesn't abate lunacy or ignorance. It serves to promote it, because there is no resolution or truth given. I can't say that I agree with a lot of what people have proposed as conspiracies but part recognizing the truth is disproving conspiracies presented as truth.
As a long standing and contributing member (not as much as others of course).. I think moving this thread to the "LOL" section is just as distasteful as the people denying children died. You're denying the forum the ability to express the very thing the forum was built on. I don't care if I step on toes saying this..
The only "LOL" I get out of this is the way it is being handled by the staff at ATS.edit on 23-9-2013 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)
I have a lot of trouble with this kind of "logic," and I see a lot of it lately.
If you believe no one died, you are "crazy." That's the stance taken by "rational conspiracy theorists."
As if it's OK to believe we are being lied to...just not about dead children.
How about instead, we simply believe nothing until presented with proof.
I will concur that it is indeed crazy to believe that every death is a conspiracy.
But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking about the very idea that our government and media could be so cold and calculating as to lie to us about deaths. Is that crazy?
Those who would control information bank on us finding certain topics too distasteful to address.
ZiggyMojo
notquitesure
ZiggyMojo
I was relatively quiet during the Sandy Hook incident on the forums. It took me back to the Dark Knight shootings earlier that year in which I witnessed a very strange and unbelievable chain of events. I witnessed and evidenced the media lying, changing the story and making no redactions. They were simply discarding information whether it was true or not, muddying the facts with fiction and diluting the truth to the point that nobody knew what was real and what wasn't.
I think it's been a long standing problem with media outlets in the US specifically. It was apparent during Sandy Hook and so much so that I tuned out. I couldn't bare to watch the story unfold, and the deaths their used as collateral for an anti-gun movement. It was disgusting, no matter who did it.. It was heinous and vile.
I am in agreement that there is a difference between denial and conspiracy. Generally, my "conspiracy theories" don't surmise that NOTHING happened, but rather something happened but not the way we've been told. The true motives or true events are not revealed to us. There were no doubt deaths on that day and the people who believe otherwise are truly hopeless.
What didn't (in my opinion) happen.. Are the elements of the "official" story. The real motive hasn't been released and who was involved never will be in my opinion. There were so many holes in the "official" story that it would make less sense to believe it than to speculate to some extent. The story was sensationalized and hashed over and over for 2 months. The media twisted the facts, reported fallacies and never differentiated the truth. The people are OWED an explanation, most specifically the families and community of Sandy Hook. It has been long enough. If the story was as cut and dry as they stated, then the work involved to examine and produce the story to the public would have been done long ago.
I think we're seeing a delay because everyone is aware of how critical the public is growing in events like these. As they say.. "The Devil is in the Details" and they don't want the details to damn them. If the public was aware of any lies or lack of integrity in a case like this.. The media would lose so much of their hypnotic grasp and all of their benefactors would relinquish some amount of their control/power.
Did it happen? Hell yes it did. If you believe otherwise then you are out of touch with reality. The people who believe it didn't happen at all or that no one was killed are the "crazies". They are the people that give the Conspiracy Theorists a bad name, and the same people that the media focuses on when any light is brought to this realm of thinking.
Did it happen the way it was reported, or the way that law enforcement has hinted? I don't believe it for a second. There are far too many inconsistencies and holes. The theatrics in the media and by our own president were over the top. There was no delay in the government's reaction to utilizing the events as political fodder for their own agendas. No matter what we've been told, or will be told.. I am confident that the full truth will never be revealed "officially". So, it still remains a challenge of the public to uncover the truth, but it must be done tastefully and with respect to the fallen. As harsh as it may sound, one life is not worth more than another. It may be hard to talk about Sandy Hook in particular because children were the majority of deaths, but far more children died in 9/11 and the events that followed and we're able to discuss those events more openly. The forum was built on denying ignorance, and if that means disproving the ignorant folks who propose completely ignorant and ludicrous ideas and conspiracies.. Then that to is our duty. The duty is truth. Censoring discussion doesn't abate lunacy or ignorance. It serves to promote it, because there is no resolution or truth given. I can't say that I agree with a lot of what people have proposed as conspiracies but part recognizing the truth is disproving conspiracies presented as truth.
As a long standing and contributing member (not as much as others of course).. I think moving this thread to the "LOL" section is just as distasteful as the people denying children died. You're denying the forum the ability to express the very thing the forum was built on. I don't care if I step on toes saying this..
The only "LOL" I get out of this is the way it is being handled by the staff at ATS.edit on 23-9-2013 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)
I have a lot of trouble with this kind of "logic," and I see a lot of it lately.
If you believe no one died, you are "crazy." That's the stance taken by "rational conspiracy theorists."
As if it's OK to believe we are being lied to...just not about dead children.
How about instead, we simply believe nothing until presented with proof.
I will concur that it is indeed crazy to believe that every death is a conspiracy.
But that isn't what we are talking about here. We are talking about the very idea that our government and media could be so cold and calculating as to lie to us about deaths. Is that crazy?
Those who would control information bank on us finding certain topics too distasteful to address.
How is this "logic" troubling? Since when did logic not exist? Logic didn't appear "lately", it has always been.I have relatives who live in Redding which is very close to Newtown. One of them works with a parent of one of the children who was killed. They knew the child personally. That child is gone because of the shooting.
If you don't believe it, when the evidence is plain as day in front of you.. You're crazy. These are real people, real lives were lost and a real shooting occurred. Whether or not the events happened as we've been told, or whether or not everything can be chalked up to a kid with mental instability is another issue altogether. The story itself is where the conspiracy lies, not whether or not it happened. Denying that an event happened is not conspiracy theory, it's denial. Whether or not the event was tangible to you is neither here nor there. People experienced it and suffered from it. It happened.edit on 23-9-2013 by ZiggyMojo because: (no reason given)
notquitesure
To be fair, that is not compelling evidence.
Not to say that compelling evidence does not exist in this case. Maybe it does.
But an internet stranger claiming to know someone who knows someone and being labeled as crazy if you don't believe this anonymous story could be construed as a bullying tactic. As an attempt to shame people into believing, using the emotional circumstance of a dead child.
Often the next tactic is question the integrity or sanity of anyone who doesn't automatically trust and believe anonymous sources without evidence.
Not saying that you would resort to this tactic. Just that those acting in this manner do the dirty work of those who would control information, sometimes unwittingly.edit on 23-9-2013 by notquitesure because: quoting error
ZiggyMojo
notquitesure
To be fair, that is not compelling evidence.
Not to say that compelling evidence does not exist in this case. Maybe it does.
But an internet stranger claiming to know someone who knows someone and being labeled as crazy if you don't believe this anonymous story could be construed as a bullying tactic. As an attempt to shame people into believing, using the emotional circumstance of a dead child.
Often the next tactic is question the integrity or sanity of anyone who doesn't automatically trust and believe anonymous sources without evidence.
Not saying that you would resort to this tactic. Just that those acting in this manner do the dirty work of those who would control information, sometimes unwittingly.edit on 23-9-2013 by notquitesure because: quoting error
Your argument goes both ways.. How many people does it take to convince one person that an event happened? Does the wind not blow in the middle of the Pacific because you aren't there to witness it? Did the World Trade centers not fall because you weren't there on 9/11?
Do you see what I'm getting at?
How about scientific laws, there are laws that I can guarantee you've never had physical evidence of but you live your life by those laws everyday. You just take someone's word for it, because they have done the dirty work to figure it out. I'm not saying people need to believe me, but where you draw the line in the sand gets very messy. Sure, you can pick and choose what you believe to be truth, but when some of those "truths" are more unfounded than others that you cast aside as fallacy.. You're own integrity and sanity has to be questioned.
The official story is as true as any other story until more definitive evidence is supplied. The "evidence" if you want to call it that, that nobody died in Newtown is negligible. I'm not saying I believe the OS, but I KNOW the event happened. I just don't know if we've been told the truth as to who or why.
Daedalus
reply to post by ZiggyMojo
when i asked him if he could comment on why this thread was thrown in here, for no reason he said that this thread was simply sited as an example, and that he wouldn't comment on why this thread is here....completely ignoring the fact that this thread didn't violate any rules yet....it was arbitrarily tossed in here for no other reason than the fact that it has sandy hook in the title, and omfg, we wanna talk about stuff that doesn't add up...
bigfootgurl
ATS has opted to embrace ignorace and to do its best to make sure its members do the same. The question remains: Why?
VoidHawk
That guy who appeared on tv who was laughing, and then got into character as a parent who'd lost a child! That for me was just too much. From that point on I didn't believe a word of the OS.
FlyersFan
bigfootgurl
ATS has opted to embrace ignorace and to do its best to make sure its members do the same. The question remains: Why?
Actually I think you got that backwards. Those who run around saying Sandy Hook never happened have embraced ignorance and are doing their best to make sure the members do the same. And yes, the question is WHY are they doing this?? Answer - something is misfiring in their frontal lobes.
This thread should be in the trash can. It's an embarrassment to ATS.
Taissa
How would you feel if every thread you started or posted in was deleted? Just saying...
bigfootgurl
The lame excuse about "personal information" and such has served as a blanket justification for the deletion of any and every post...
Skeptic462
Or is the primary concern that people were exposing personal information?