Obama's State of Confusion Address Tonight 9:00 pm eastern (US)

reply to post by Grambler



...plus land mines.

To quote canucks555 from another thread: "Obama wants them disarmed and then attacked. It's not either or he wants both."

I agree. We did it to Saddam and Gaddafi; now we will do it to Assad. This "solution" will only draw things out. I think the U.S. government has already made up its mind and now it's just about finding an opportunity to execute that plan. This isn't anywhere near being over.

reply to post by AlliumIslelily


I agree it's not over...the problem is, as we've likely chosen and decided the US course of action outside anything being said right now? Russia and others have likely chosen their counter-moves as well. I'm thinking Obama may not even consider that far ahead, personally, but his counterpart plays checkers to his chess...and I have no doubt the Russians thought this out many moves ahead of this stage before ever starting down the path of confrontation.

I just wish anyone...anywhere in this would publicly say what they mean for a change. It's like a big show where everyone is saying their lines ...while knowing everyone ELSE knows full well it's all lines, but still, for some reason? Everyone plays their part anyway. It's surreal.

Grambler
A couple of thoughts on the speech.

1. I like others have pointed out, am appalled by the suggestion that people watch videos of kids dying as proof rather than show us the classified "proof" they have. This appeal to emotional response rather than logic is unethical.

By that logic, can we then judge the US based on videos of our aircraft killing innocent children, or pics of drone strikes that have killed children?

2. I find it strange that he blatantly admits Assad can't hurt the US ad even said Isreal would easily defeat him if he tried anything there. Then why get involved?

3. When discussing why not to overthrow the regime, he says thats not the US way. But isn't that what we did in Libya.

Also the fact that Assad knows we won't come after him, then how is this punishing him? The people that will really be punished are the innocents that will die will our missle strikes.

4. He menitons that diplomacy was only possible because the threat of violence. Well I think on the US diplomacy was only possible because the massive outcry against an attack.

Its funny to see people on this thread even applauding Obama for using diplomacy. If he had his way, we would have attacked two weeks ago.

And as much as I hope this isn't the case, I bet he will still try and find an excuse to attack. Perhaps they will have classified intel that Assad still has chemicals hidden after he gives them up, and it will be on again.

5. I find the argument that not atacking will cause other rogue states to use chemical weapons interesting. This implies that there are leaders out there that are so psychotic that they are just waiting for their chance to do this.

Well for arguments sake lets say this is true, that there are crazy world leaders. Wouldn't striking Syria equally embolden rogues to use chemicals and blame other hactors, knowing that the US has set the precedent that they will attack that enemy without UN support?

6. The claim no boots on the ground is assuming a world where the strikes work perfectly. If Assad strikes back at the US, or they can't disable all the weapons, boots will be put on the ground.

7. The outrage agianst chemical weapons from Obama seems phony to me. He says in the speech that all of these nations have decided these weapons are bad, and that is reason enough to go in.

But all of those nations also say things like cluster bombs should be outlawed. But the US just recently sold a whole bunch of them to Saudia Arabia. Why wasn't the rest of the worlds opinion important on that issue.

A brilliant summary. (thumbs up!)

We aren't talking about the debt/deficit anymore, are we.
We aren't talking about unemployment, Obamacare waivers, debt ceiling, budget battles, are we.

We're talking about a 2+ year old civil war in which chemical weapons have now been used. A war in which 100,000 died (and we don't bat an eye) yet 400 die from chemical weapons and we rattle sabres.

The Obama administration blamed Youtube for Benghazi and are now using Youtube as validation of atrocities in Syria.

Our foreign policy is basically a Twitter Account (hashtag voteforme) and our president a social media junkie that uses feelings to get his way the same way the high school quarterback gets his in the backseat of his fathers Buick on prom night (trust me babe, I'll respect you in the morning).

reply to post by beezzer


Is it possible here we are listening to alternate personalities in the one person , namely Obama.
Seems as if one of his alters wants peace and all this nasty stuff to go away , stop picking on me.

The other half would like to pull the gizzards out of Assad and anyone else that looks at him or heaven forbid laughs at him.

Hey looks like the lights on and no one's home or he's one stubby short of a six pack.

He doesn't need the U.N approval , he's got the whole lot vying for attention in his own head.

Poor man needs a nanny nap.

I honestly didnt even know he was gonna speak last night...yikes!! I know, I should've known, but I didn't...
Then I saw he was on..and I turned the volume all the way up so I could hear what he had to say...

I cried actually...and I got a really bad feeling by just looking at him. He looked different to me for some reason. I can't place it, he looked downright evil I guess. I felt bad vibes.

I don't understand why would we kill people after they killed people...maybe I am more ignorant than I thought.

Eye for an eye and the whole world will be blind...

Peace and love
-nat the blue eyed cat-

reply to post by natalia


No. You're not crazy. You're sick, you're tired....but not crazy.

I just posted this on another thread after studying the HRW report.

I don't doubt that the rebels have and may very well have used chemical weapons. And it's clear that they have committed atrocities. Atrocities, regrettably, are a side effect of just about every armed conflict. But as far as the August 21st attack goes these are some of the issues that, for me, stand out:

1. At least 8 rockets hit in each of two neighborhoods 16km apart. In each neighborhood the rockets fell in relatively quick succession. This was documented by multiple witnesses on-scene. This suggests multiple launchers due to the time it takes to reload the launcher.

2. The first attack was by Soviet-made 140mm rockets. The second, later attack was by what is believed to be Syrian-made 330mm rockets designed to be launched from Iranian-made launchers. Both the Soviet and Iranian armament has long been known to be part of the Syrian armory.

3. These are both truck-mounted launchers and have never been seen in the possession of the rebels.

4. The 140mm rockets hold ~20L and the 330mm rockets hold 50-60L of sarin. This means the rebels would have had to have been in possession of at least 560L of sarin. That's a lot.

5. The mixing and filling of the rockets requires specialized expertise and equipment not known to be in the hands of the rebels.

6. Given where the rockets hit and the known min/max range of the rockets, it is relatively straightforward to determine from where they could have been launched. That fixes their launches from government military installations and controlled areas.

That sarin gas was used is not at-issue. The physical evidence (rocket components, engines, markings, etc.) was well documented soon after the attack (see the HRW report for links) and points to documented Syrian military munitions. Multiple eyewitness accounts confirm the number and cadence of the attacks. It seems pretty clear that the attacks required a level of sophistication in handling nerve agents, a substantial quantity of sarin, and the ability to quickly launch both 140mm and 330mm rockets in relatively rapid succession.

Although I was quickly onboard blaming the rebels for the attack (cause it seemed to make the most sense) I'm having trouble believing they have the ability/materiel to pull of the attack as documented. Given the fact that the Russians certainly must know these facts as well it makes their motives seriously suspect. Just as most people have blamed the rebels for the attacks since it would seem that had the most to gain, perhaps Assad et al used that to mask their own attack? I just have a lot of doubt suddenly.

reply to post by wrabbit2000


Ahh ok, I get what you mean and I'm sitting on your wavelength. Basically this is an insult with the level of military warfare equipment in the area, if Obama decides to strike if retaliation came after then those assets are sitting ducks in essence?

Plus when the US military goes to do a job it goes on mass, this goes against the norm in every way.

*** I am definitely NOT for a war here. Never have been.. However, ONE thing was WORSE than war. That was coming out of this WEAKER than the U.S. went into it. Amazingly, that seems to be the outcome at this stage. Somehow, we've managed to lose without even having fought at all....and that, is an accomplishment.

Do you feel if it comes down to military strikes then the US military itself would encounter any kind of impediment? I would rather not believe that myself to be honest unless it was part of the plan, after all the plan was to bomb certain targets and that will be done with.

Allies of Syria have stated they will retaliate, would Obama be twisted enough to let US Forces in the area just suffer the backlash of said strikes? after a little thought about it your right that they have nowhere near what you would expect in the area if repelling a retaliation was needed.

Obama's stance was to never go to war though, it was to punish chemical weapons users with a heavy hand in hopes of solidifying the deterrence of using such weapons. Muddy waters at the minute it seems

Could a Pearl Harbor style of unexpected attack be round the corner if Obama was to strike... I hope not.

reply to post by jtma508


The Russian's ulterior motive is the gas pipeline that the EU wants to build in Syria.

reply to post by bigfatfurrytexan


www.abovetopsecret.com...
September 5, 2013
Israel’s black gold shifts the balance of power,The Middle East’s power map is being redrawn.
www.yourmiddleeast.com...


11 September 2013
Russia 'to renew offer to supply S-300s to Iran'
www.france24.com...

reply to post by jtma508


These are very good points. What really puzzles me is why the U.S. government isn't using any of this evidence to make an argument? If they wanted more support, I am willing to bet they would have it after providing the breakdown you just described. So...why are they not mentioning any of this when all of it supports their argument?

I can't see any logical reason not to use this information. It's like either -a.) This evidence is inadmissible for some reason or -b.) They WANT everyone to be against them?

I don't really know what to make of it.

Obama's State of Confusion Address Tonight 9:00 pm eastern (US)

Wow ... Beezzer ... those were prophetic words! State of confusion address ...
The speech was a mess. He tries to make the case for war and how bad it is.
Then he backs off and say 'no action'. Back and forth.
This dolt is going to start WWIII .. it's not over ...

19KTankCommander
reply to post by beezzer

 

He will be reading from a teleprompter, lets take that away and see how well he does. Maybe he should show us the classified documents on why we should go, I bet we uses the word WE AMERICANS a lot tonight in one way or another.

No no. Hack the teleprompter and make him say stuff like from Bruce Almighty. "And my tiny nipples went to France..." "Uhhh, Mr. President?!"

natalia
I cried actually...and I got a really bad feeling by just looking at him. He looked different to me for some reason. I can't place it, he looked downright evil I guess. I felt bad vibes.

I felt the exact same thing. Immediately I just thought, Wow, he is one scary looking person! Very creepy. Plus the whole red carpet, chandelier ensemble. Just, totally off!

President Obama needs your help starting World War III! Find out how you can help!




Sarcasm drives the point across very well.

reply to post by burntheships


I saw that on another thread ... it was dead on .... funny, but dead on.
I've emailed it to a bunch of people.

reply to post by beezzer


You mean the state of evil address? People are accussing him of flip flopping? I am just glad we are still alive to be honest. He can flip flop all he wants in my really honest opinion. I think lots of democrats are going to flip him something else, you know like what happens when people get mad at you at a traffic incident.

Beezer I am suprised you got mad. You are normally reserved.

I cant imagine whats going on at godlikeproductions.

That Jagaloon was so all over the place. It almost seemed like they were watching twitter feeds and trying to change the prompter as the responses were coming in.