The fall of the Egyptian Empire

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by LUXUS
Egypt was eventually killed by attack from Nubian/Kush tribes, Assyrians, plague (the plagues spoken about in the bible ie in the time of Moses)

what lolololooll

the "nubian" tribes ruled egypt from king narmer (menes) to taharaq
and the theban line...was a nubian tribe

the ku#e where also a nubian tribe from further south
they were the last traditional horus kings from the nile valley

Kush/nubia...in that area was an Egyptian colony and they paid loyal nomadic nubians (the Medjay) there to guard Egyptian asserts from the savages further south who were a continuous pain in the butt, attacking the Egyptian forts and setting them on fire.

builders= nubian
army = nubian
cults= nubian
pharaoh and the maitrachy = nubian

"Mentuhotep II (21st century BCE founder of the Middle Kingdom) is recorded to have undertaken campaigns against Kush in the 29th and 31st years of his reign. This is the earliest Egyptian reference to Kush; the Nubian region had gone by other names in the Old Kingdom.

i think you need to go brush up on your knowledge about mentuhotep2
his issue was an internal one,amongst local tribes

kush was nubian
so was the whole nile valley

During the New Kingdom of Egypt, Nubia (Kush) was an Egyptian colony, from the 16th century BCE governed by an Egyptian Viceroy of Kush."

tut

kush was ....yes
not nubia

nubia is a modern term....which DOES include the ruling line

only the son of a nubian woman could be a horus king... according to the maitrachal cult

"Ku#es also built burial mounds and pyramids, and shared some of the same gods worshiped in Egypt, especially Ammon and Isis. With the worshiping of these gods the Ku#es began to take some of the names of the gods as their throne names"

ie...tradiitional horus kings!!!!

do you get it yet

"Egypt suffered a serious defeat at the hands of the Ku#es.

no egypt...no nubia

the tribe of the royal line....was defeated by another tribe

all 22 nomes of upper egypt were nubian

According to Davies, head of the joint British Museum and Egyptian archaeological team,

stop right there

thats one person from a line going back 2000 year...trying to understand AE

i thank him for his opinion

but he is as wrong about this ..as our G.Bush was about the ME lol

peace

the only thing to get from your bait and switch is that nubia didn't exist until you think it makes your your argument stronger.
i bet most of your views come from a small group of people trying to push a narrow view of the AME, it's ironic that you criticize someone else for doing what you do all the time.

where in the world are you getting that menes was nubian? there is no evidence any where he was nubian, trying to make him nubian shows an utter lack of understanding ancient egypt.
he wouldn't have identified as nubian, in fact he would more than likely have been offended to be insinuated not to be egyptian.

by the way, where is your proof that there was a matriarchal cult in egypt? if you really believe that, why was the pharaoh a representative of horus? why not isis or hathor? what the heck is a horus king? the pharaoh had a " horus name" and it had nothing to do with his mother, other than the added strength of her being of royal blood.

i say davies has a better grasp of the AME than you do, given it's his job, while you are just some afro-centrist trying to make africa the creator of everything.

no matter what you guys say, the people that you call, "nubian" considered themselves egyptian, not nubian or whatever you want them to be. it's like arguing that people in roman britian didn't think they were roman because they weren't born in rome. or that people in the ottoman empire didn't consider themselves part of it because they weren't turkish.

this is nonsense, full of hair splitting and pseudo-history, one moment nubian is a real term for people in the past and the next it's some modern term only valid when you say it is.
either use the term or don't, but stop pretending it isn't a valid term. egyptian is a modern term for the people, they didn't call themselves egyptians either, they had another term: kmt, egypt comes from greek for them, but you aren't hair splitting over that? why? because it doesn't fit your racial rhetoric.

I'm thinking of producing two new brands of aftershave aimed exclusively at the Afrocentric community, one is going to be called "Deluded" and the other "Egyptian dreams"

Originally posted by LUXUS
I'm thinking of producing two new brands of aftershave aimed exclusively at the Afrocentric community, one is going to be called "Deluded" and the other "Egyptian dreams"

I'll just create one for Euro-centrist called De-Nile.

The people you are trying to attribute the pyramids to have an average IQ of 70, basically your trying to say people with a low IQ built the pyramids.

Also looking at Africa in the map below its obvious why the pyramids are where they are in the north of Africa and not to be found in the south.

reply to post by LUXUS


low IQ???????????????

they taught the greeks.... & in extension you!

pythagoras and the rest of them are nothing but students of the Nubian kanuzi tribes of AE


you and your tables and graphs mean nothing...pharaohs, untill the invasion of persia...were black.
but...
from the persians in 525bc...to alexander in 332bc, untill the death of cleopatra...they were not black

thats 2.500 years black
500 years not black

peace

reply to post by thePharaoh


Like I said the pyramids are where they are for a reason and that is nicely reflected in the map given, btw reality check the Egyptians were not and are not black...and no black people did not teach the ancient Greeks!

Here is an image of ancient nubians teaching the ancient Egyptians

Herodotus follows with what he was told by the prophetesses, called peleiades ("doves") at Dodona:
"...that two black doves had come flying from Thebes in Egypt, one to Libya and one to Dodona; the latter settled on an oak tree, and there uttered human speech, declaring that a place of divination from Zeus must be made there; the people of Dodona understood that the message was divine, and therefore established the oracular shrine. The dove which came to Libya told the Libyans (they say) to make an oracle of Ammon; this also is sacred to Zeus. Such was the story told by the Dodonaean priestesses, the eldest of whom was Promeneia and the next Timarete and the youngest Nicandra; and the rest of the servants of the temple at Dodona similarly held it true."


"I expect that these women were called 'doves' by the people of Dodona because they spoke a strange language, and the people thought it like the cries of birds; then the woman spoke what they could understand, and that is why they say that the dove uttered human speech; as long as she spoke in a foreign tongue, they thought her voice was like the voice of a bird. For how could a dove utter the speech of men?The tale that the dove was black signifies that the woman was Egyptian."

[741] Abominable is the lustful race of Aegyptus and insatiate of battle; and you know that all too well. In ships, stout-timbered and dark-prowed, they have sailed here, attended by a mighty black host, and in their wrath overtaken us.
www.theoi.com...

DANAUS
[710] I commend these sensible prayers, dear children; but do not be troubled yourselves when you hear the unexpected and startling tidings your father has to tell. From my post of look-out here on the sanctuary of suppliants I see that ship; for it is well-marked and does not escape me: the trimming of its sail, its side-guards, and the prow that with its eyes scans its onward course, obeying—all too well for those to whom it is unfriendly—the guiding rudder at the stern. The men on board are plainly seen, their black limbs showing from their white attire.

“ Then a king will come from the South,
Ameny, the justified, by name
Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt.
He will take the white crown,
He will wear the red crown;
He will join the Two Mighty Ones..
Rejoice, O people of his time,
The son of man will make his name for all eternity! ..
Asiatics will fall to his sword,
Libyans will fall to his flame,
Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him.
One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler
To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt
”

Blyck enough for ya??...

With an average IQ of 70 there is no way in hell that you would be able to build a pyramid, you wouldent be able to workout the complex engineering and mathematics. There is NO top engineer with an IQ of 70, they don't exist!

Originally posted by Nephilimsreturn
I am curious, did Egypt's Golden empire fell when they stopped worshipping their Gods?

They once was a powerful empire I believe. I am curious if the time the Egyptian empire fell there was a decline in their worship of their original Egyptian Gods/Goddess?

No, in fact the worship of their gods continued some time afterward. The last active shrine closed around 300 AD, about 300 years after Cleopatra's final defeat.

Their methods of worship were actually rather different than we think of today because of the differences in culture and economy. Every man and woman in Egypt served as a priest in the temple for some period of time. There were few "professional priests"; nearly everyone had multiple jobs. They could rotate between a number of different priestly jobs (and there were many of these.) The gods were always there, to be talked to, bargained with, prayed to, scolded (yes, really) and so forth.

It really is a very different way of life. I'm sorry I tell it badly, but I'm trying to summarize five books on the topic into two paragraphs.

Some of the surrounding cultures actually appropriated Egyptian gods and goddesses and they were worshiped in those other areas (most famously is "Harpocrates, the god of silence", which is the Greek misunderstanding of Heru pa Khered (Horus the child)

One of the best basic books on this (available as an ebook - yay!) is Teeter, E. 2011. Religion and Ritual in Ancient Egypt. She goes into the different classes of priests, the different lengths of office, the shrines, and a lot of other fascinating stuff. I read the thing nonstop for hours!

There's also Wilkinson, R. H. 2003. The Complete Gods and Goddesses of Ancient Egypt. I'm not completely through this one (just picked it up) but it's got lots of intriguing things. It's not a totally complete reference but will get most of it and it's not an expensive or hard to find book And it's an ebook, too. Yay!

Both those books were recommended by multiple Egyptologists. Barbara Mertz's Temples, Tombs, and Hieroglyphs: A Popular History of Ancient Egypt is another "must have", IMHO (borrow them from the library if you can't afford them) -- very readable, and completely engrossing.

Their culture changes when the Macedonian Greeks become the rulers (300 BC) but only among the elite (and yes, they did set themselves up as gods and made offerings to the traditional Egyptian gods) -- it collapses when Cleopatra fails to keep Rome from conquering them, though the temples last for several centuries after. Interestingly enough, one of the things that kept them going was the legendary honesty of the priests of Isis (money and treasures were sometimes entrusted to them.)

Originally posted by LUXUS
With an average IQ of 70 there is no way in hell that you would be able to build a pyramid, you wouldent be able to workout the complex engineering and mathematics. There is NO top engineer with an IQ of 70, they don't exist!

If we are talking about AE why are using information from 4,500 years later?

Oh I looked up your source for that image myself, its Robert Lindsay a blogger with no scientific background at all.

The site

unscientific stuff

Now you guys can go back to trying to out racist one another

Originally posted by LUXUS
The people you are trying to attribute the pyramids to have an average IQ of 70, basically your trying to say people with a low IQ built the pyramids.

Also looking at Africa in the map below its obvious why the pyramids are where they are in the north of Africa and not to be found in the south.

That's an inaccurate map. According to that map, the ancient Greeks (you remember Plato and Hiero and Eratosthenes and Aristotle, etc) only had an IQ of 90. The Hindus (and great Indian civilizations) would have had an IQ so low that they couldn't read or write (which is completely knocked out of the ball park by the fact that they have some of the oldest writing and the oldest scriptures.)

The mapmaker declares the Canadians less intelligent than the Americans (our Canadian friends will explain that this is wrong) and that the English are far more intelligent than the Irish and the Swedes are more intelligent than the Norwegians.

And that's just silly.

The map is a racist sneer. Don't fall for this one, because it isn't true.

Originally posted by Hanslune


If we are talking about AE why are using information from 4,500 years later?

So you think there IQ has decreased since then?

Oh I looked up your source for that image myself, its Robert Lindsay a blogger with no scientific background at all.

Google world IQ, you can select any study or map you like, they all show similar trends and the testing has been repeated countless times over several years.

reply to post by Byrd


"average IQ" so no it would not count for Plato (and others) who clearly were above average hence there status in society.

Originally posted by LUXUS

So you think there IQ has decreased since then?

There is no way to measure ancient 'IQ'

Google world IQ, you can select any study or map you like, they all show similar trends and the testing has been repeated countless times over several years.

here is the criticism of that book and its study

Hunt and Wittmann have criticized aspects of the book's data and conclusions, but concluded that there is nonetheless a strong correlation between modern national IQ and prosperity.

reply to post by LUXUS

Also looking at Africa in the map below its obvious why the pyramids are where they are in the north of Africa and not to be found in the south.

Sure they are did you forget the many smaller pyramids made in the Sudan?

Originally posted by demongoat
the only thing to get from your bait and switch is that nubia didn't exist until you think it makes your your argument stronger.

nope...trying to explain that nubia, is more than a generic modern term....it is difficult when people use the word nubia to describe kush...and not the theban/nekhen/abdos/naqqada tribes.

i bet most of your views come from a small group of people trying to push a narrow view of the AME,

what if i told you that this is the pharonic view of AE

it's ironic that you criticize someone else for doing what you do all the time.

just showing luxus how wrong he is

here in the world are you getting that menes was nubian? there is no evidence any where he was nubian, trying to make him nubian shows an utter lack of understanding ancient egypt.he wouldn't have identified as nubian, in fact he would more than likely have been offended to be insinuated not to be egyptian.

oh my god...

now im going to show YOU how wrong you are

Menes is a greek term, written by herodotus, a greek historian.
Menes is his name for the first pharaoh.
though in the mass catalogue of Egyptian artifacts
the first pharaohs, written in more than three official kings lists, was Aha. His father was Narmer.

one of these two is Menes
the mythology of a warrior king,leans it towards Narmer.
but strictly speaking, as the first pharaoh, Menes ought to be Aha

Narmer and Aha, as the royal line of memphis
they came from nekhen/abydos and naqqada(nubt)...as did the first two dynasty of pharaohs

now, after 6 thousands years...if you go to abydos, nekhen and naqqada
today, the population is very much kanuzi nubian...kanuzi nubian means "precious golden"
and they have been there as far back as history goes

by the way, where is your proof that there was a matriarchal cult in egypt?

proof lol

well for you....akhenaten statue!

and many other things i wont go into

if you really believe that, why was the pharaoh a representative of horus? why not isis or hathor? what the heck is a horus king? the pharaoh had a " horus name" and it had nothing to do with his mother, other than the added strength of her being of royal blood.

come on dude

the king was a god king
therefore his mother was considered divine
his right to the throne came from her divine right...

i`ll stop there

i say davies has a better grasp of the AME than you do, given it's his job, while you are just some afro-centrist trying to make africa the creator of everything.

how can he have a better grasp than the artifact itself

dont take my luxus rebuttles out of context

this is nonsense, full of hair splitting and pseudo-history, one moment nubian is a real term for people in the past and the next it's some modern term only valid when you say it is.
either use the term or don't, but stop pretending it isn't a valid term.

all im saying is

if your going to use the term nubian....then include the royal line
all 25 royal dynasties (except the libyan and hykosis rulers)

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by LUXUS

 

Also looking at Africa in the map below its obvious why the pyramids are where they are in the north of Africa and not to be found in the south.

Sure they are did you forget the many smaller pyramids made in the Sudan?

Sudan is in the north of Africa, those pyramids were built by who and when btw?

reply to post by thePharaoh


Hate to brake it to you but people with an average IQ of 70 never taught people with an average IQ of 100

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by thePharaoh

 

Hate to brake it to you but people with an average IQ of 70 never taught people with an average IQ of 100

haha

you wish

i got to add....theres no "level" of intelligence...only different types

reply to post by LUXUS

Sudan is in the north of Africa, those pyramids were built by who and when btw?

By the ancestors of the present day Sudanese Piankhi and his descendants. .. genius...khraast!! Luxus maybe just maybe you should just leave the I.Q thingy alone..just saying!!