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The true self is where thought arises, it is the space that is all knowing. It is all seeing all knowing and ever present.
There is no need to seek your true nature - it is all there is but an individual seeks outside when there is no outside. The individual seeks in time when there is no time. The individual seeks in other when there really is no other. It is crazy stuff.
All there is is what is happening - but there is an feeling that there is something missing, more to be found - there isn't! But the one that is divided is playing the game of hide and seek. One seeks for fulfilment outside the present happening. If one realized that there is only the present happening it would be filled with the present happening but words say this can't be it - there must be more so denies the present happening in favour of thoughts of other times where it will be better. One seeks in time for' better'.
The one that is divided is scared of not being because it does not yet remember that it is 'being' all there is, all there will ever be.
There is a hiding from oneself - one is nothing and one seems to see something. One is entranced by the something and gets lost in concepts - in things. One does not want to look at the nothingness. One may feel empty inside so one goes in search of things so one does not feel bored - one denies the emptiness because one is playing the game of hiding from oneself.
When one realizes oneself as emptiness perceiving - one just sees the movie (Lila, Maya - the play of light).
God saw the light and it was good.
When one is seeking in time and space for that which will complete it - one divides oneself and one conflicts.
God pretends to be an individual.
earthling42
reply to post by Itisnowagain
Then please clarify your question because i already answered your question in a previous reply which obviously is not to your satisfaction it seems.
We are talking of a human being living on earth which is the physical reality of every human being that lives on this planet.
NiNjABackflip
"There is..."—that means it happens. One gets lost in concepts. One does not want to look at nothingness. One denies emptiness. So be it. It's what happens. It's a part of being. Because it doesn't coincide with your own personal tastes doesn't mean it isn't an act of the present moment.
earthling42
reply to post by Itisnowagain
Again, a human being is not an object but a living being, alive.
Humanity regenerates, there must be two humans to make a baby and then it takes some time for the baby to grow in the womb.
Thanks for your judgement
earthling42
reply to post by Itisnowagain
There is no beginning nor end but continuation, regeneration, if a human falls away from the chain, nothing changes, in fact it means nothing.
Bluesma
BDBinc
No you do not always know that your body is in the present as when you are asleep you are not conscious of the body and cannot say that you know anything about the body in sleep.
We've already agreed on that. I had no idea that such basic concepts like that we're talking about someone physically awake needed to be clarified for you- but that has been done.
But objective reality isn’t past emotions and interpreted “meanings”. Thats duality. How can you say that your conditioned personal past emotions and (interpretations)"meanings" is Objective Reality.
Apparently you didn't read what I have written- that my internal subjective reality brings up associations of emotion and meaning.
I am aware of these at the same time that I remain aware of the external objective reality, in which objects, space and time exist without any meaning.
I do not have one "wiped out" by the other. I remain consciously aware of both subjective and objective realities.
That is "duality" for you? Okay. Call it whatever you wish. It feels rather normal and balanced to me.
Wholeness does seem to encompass "opposites" - self/other, inner/outer, dark/ light, positive/negative, yin/ yang...
People who have panic attacks are not focused in the moment and are focused on the past (with fear it will be in the future). By focusing /thinking about the past and imagining it in the moment instead of accepting the fresh moment it
As I desribed in my own experience, others I have had, and many of the people I work with in equitherapy, the conscious mind can do all the accepting it wants- but it has for partner the subconscious mind and the physical body, which is half of the experience of being in a physical manifestation.
The physical body has various automatic systems for reproduction, survival... it grasps and holds onto memories in the brain, the rest fo the nervous system, the skin, the muscle. If you practice any sport , or physical skill such as an instrument, then you are aware of the process you need to do to integrate muscle memories of specific movement, automatic associations, so that the bases for the skill are set and the mind can be "freed up" to be creative.
This same system of conditioning and automated response can work in ways countrary to the conscious mind too- it can get programmed unintentionally. Whether the programming was intentional or not, once made, the mind is then limited in it's ability to influence the reactions.
A progressive program is necessary for change then.
My point being- it is not in simply changing your mind, or your thought, that such problems as panic attacks disappear. In such a case, the more the person focuses on the immediate present environment, the more the body will react if that environment has triggers.
Panic attacks do not stem from the person thinking about the past.
Being focused on the moment means not covering it up/wiping it out by past emotions memories/thoughts/interpretations .
Again, I am not sure why you experience past memories/emotions/meanings (the subjective reality) covering up or wiping out your consciousness of present external objective reality.
This is usually the symptom of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, or psychosis. I have sometimes suspected it can also happen to people who are just extremely creative, with a very strong imagination.
That can probably be used well in creative arts. But can obviously be a problem when it comes to interaction in the objective reality with other individuals around.
...sigh... so here we are, back to my original thought- these grounding techniques are probably very useful for people who are not very grounded, or down to earth.
edit on 25-9-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
Itisnowagain
1Learner
Shall seekers stop seeking...if they wish not to be divided and conflicted?
Can you stop seeking just because you want to?
Isn't 'wanting' seeking?
Seeking happens until it doesn't. When seeking stops it does so all by itself.
There is no individual - there is seeking or not seeking.
Itisnowagain
1Learner
What is an arising thought? Is the mind the whereabouts of arising thought ?
What is knowing, and what is being present?
The speaking mind is thought - have a look and see where thought arises.
That which is looking is knowing the arising thought.
Thought is of the appearance - just like this screen and the words appearing on it are.
BDBinc
Now you think there is not one reality but your "internal subjective reality" and your "external objective reality".
1) An internal subjective reality that brings up past thoughts/associations of emotion and meaning and wipes of the NOW.
(*But you say that your bringing your focus to the past traumatic emotions and thoughts does not stop you from focusing on the fresh moment of Now.)
You say in a panic attack you are not just focused on traumatic past thoughts but also focused on
2) “the external objective reality, in which objects, space and time exist without any meaning. “
So you are 1)bringing the past emotions and “meanings” into focus AND 2) focusing on the existence of meaningless objects , space and time. ??!!!
You do not know, or are in denial, that you think its normal that subjective past emotions and thoughts in your panic attack take you away from being focused on the moment.
You cannot see why bringing the past emotions, trauma and meanings cause your panic attacks as you think this conditioned thinking it is your internal subjective reality.
It is not your “internal subjective reality” its just your minds focus on traumatic past emotions and meanings. Not reality -emotions, fears and thoughts of the past projecting them on the present.
It is by simply changing your minds focus that such problems such as panic attacks disappear .
BDBinc
The techniques other people told you to provide grounding obviously did not work for you. You wish to remain focused on past emotions and “meanings” calling this imagination one of your different “realities”.
1Learner
please answer me this: who is responsible for one's seeking, and why is one not in control of their own seeking?
How could seeking or not seeking exist when there is no individual for such terms to apply to?
The "speaking mind"...would it be true that the speaking mind is simply the mind which has thoughts? You are saying that such a mind is itself a thought?
What is it to know? What is it to be in the [present] happening?
"Thought is of the appearance - just like this screen and the words appearing on it are"
Are you trying to define thought?
The screen and the words appear. Or, do only the words appear on the screen? If only the words appear, then thought is like the words on the screen. The screen is analogous to what? The mind? The self?
Now, if both the screen and the words appear, then whatever is analogous to the screen (mind, self, [insert your answer here]) is also thought...correct?
You have been able to answer these questions because you know something; how has your knowledge helped you in your own conflict, assuming you are conflicted as a divided individual? What do you, Itisnowagain, seek?
Bluesma
. Yes- I am aware of the objective reality at the same time as the subjective reality.
Bluesma
At different times , I may focus more on one than the other. For example,
-while in full action in the middle of the day, I may be more focused on the objective reality. What is, now.
-In the evening, as I prepare for bed, and all is calm, I may focus my thoughts on the past, reviewing the events of the day, analyzing the interactions.
-In the morning, when all is calm, as I sip my morning coffee, I may think of future, using the concepts and ideas gained from the past experiences, I may project certain goals and plans for the day.
None of those times, do I actually lose consciousness of the objective present world, nor of the subjective world of emotion and meaning, past and future.
One may lose some contrast, become less vivid, as I focus on the other, but it is not "wiped out".
Bluesma(the only time the subjective world dominates entirely is when I sleep)
Bluesma
Emotions, fears, memories of past and imaginative concepts of future ARE my internal subjective reality.
They are not objects, they have no mass, they do not exist in time or space.
Just as your ideas and projections of MY internal states is YOUR internal subjective reality.
Bluesma
Two points- and these are things you KNOW if you are a practicing hypnotherapist (I think it was?)
-The case of psychosomatic illness and suffering.
You know what this is. You know that it occurs when a person goes into denial about negative associations.
When they are NOT focusing on them, and have decided to focus on something else entirely, all the time.
This alone proves that simply shifting focus does not resolve anything.
Shift of focus is not a miracle act.
Even in the case of my own panic attack, at first, I did not know why it was happening- why tears wouldn't stop streaming down my face. I had to analyze the internal images and concepts arising, compare them to my memories, addition in the dates of certain events, and I was able to conclude that a specific event in the past is when this reaction became programmed.
I was not thinking about it when I got into that place- at all. Yet my body still reacted. Because I have a subconscious -that does not cease to exist or influence my physiological and biological processes and behavioral reflexes just because my conscious mind is focused in a different direction.
-I used the word 'progressive" for a reason- meditation and focus upon the present can REPLACE or CHANGE the associations (remember my whole spiel on Thought Stopping techniques? .. Or call it "Thought transforming" if you prefer) This is progressive programming of the subconscious and subjective world. It takes time.
It is not the shift in focus that does it directly- it is the accumulation of new positive memories and associations.
edit on 25-9-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)edit on 26-9-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)edit on 26-9-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)edit on 26-9-2013 by Bluesma because: (no reason given)
Bluesma
BDBinc
The techniques other people told you to provide grounding obviously did not work for you. You wish to remain focused on past emotions and “meanings” calling this imagination one of your different “realities”.
THanks for sharing with me your imagined concepts of my emotions, and my past experiences.
Now, since only I have access to that, I will describe them to you.
I did not have therapy to gain grounding- I am aware of this problem some people have because it is one I have to respond to in equitherapy. I have some people who get carried away in their fears of what might happen on/near a horse. Those fears cause biological processes (adrenaline ) and behavioral reflexes (defensive movements) which actually provoke dangerous events to happen.
The person can be in complete denial and actually believe they are not afraid. The horse acts as a big biofeedback machine, which forces them to acknowledge and focus on those feelings.
The ones in denial actually provoke more problems for themselves than those who acknowledge and own up to their internal states and associations.
I have been meditating since I was nine, I am well aware of the benefits. I still do it everyday.
I find that acknowledging the subjective world, and the objective world, at the same time keeps one from identifying too strongly with either.
1Learner
reply to post by Itisnowagain
I think i can understand your ideas, and at the very least, I can understand how you to think what you do. Therefore, after I have understood them I will come to know that I am nothing.
So, you do not seek anything? Did you not even seek to come onto ATS and further introduce your ideas?
Do you think for yourself, or do you observe your thoughts move and observe your human body move too?
Do good/bad thoughts cross your mind? Do you choose which ones to think...?edit on 26-9-2013 by 1Learner because: I had a beginning that didn't make sense to me...I didn't edit it out; this is to note.