How the Soviet KGB created Conspiracy Theories

Originally posted by Skyfloating

This is an interesting question. Philosophies that have persisted for thousands of years (such as the various Religions) have done so because it was believed that the idea is more important than the individual. Societies that don't want to be changed can still be changed incrementally and so slowly that its hardly noticeable. Those who started these long-term plans must have known that they wont see the fulfillment of their Utopia in their lifetime.

The thing is most philosophies revolve around "supposedly" making life better for everyone. That's how slowly but surely regular people got a measure of freedom since time immemorial. But what the world elites seem to want since who knows when, but for argument sake let's say the 1900s, is pretty much massive depopulation and the enslavement of everyone else left who is not rich and powerful as they are.

If these people really wanted "what is best for Earth", as so many of them claim, we would see them more actively involved in stopping "accidents" like the Gulf spill, or what is even worse the continuous contamination by radiation of the Pacific Ocean by the Fukushima nuclear plant. That nuclear plant should have been cemented shut since week 1 of the accident.

Not only that, some of you probably know that there are already projects to sequester atmospheric CO2, this will cause all worldwide trees and plants to produce less harvests, less food, and to use more water leaving less food and less water for people.

All these things, and more, all seem to point out that the rich global elites want to kill as many regular humans as possible, to enslave the rest and they don't really care if they poison Earth in the process.

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse


All these things, and more, all seem to point out that the rich global elites want to kill as many regular humans as possible, to enslave the rest and they don't really care if they poison Earth in the process.

edit on 9-8-2013 by ElectricUniverse because: add comments.

I sense and agree with the general idea that there is some force, thing, entity that does not like humans. I guess my deeper motivation of posting threads like these is to shed some light on what ideologies this force hides behind.

I guess thats everyones motivation on ATS...to find out whether there is some evil and deceitful agenda in this world. But we differ and are confused on what that is.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout

I am not attempting to downplay the influence of the KGB, merely picking at a few of the holes, and pointing out that the British are a devious bunch of #es who have a history of playing off one side against the other...

Well...cant argue with that.

Uhm....sorry Brits, I dont mean THE British as a culture and ethnicity, I mean the imperialist Britain of ages past.

and I am just adding my tuppence worth in the hope that you will provide deeper insight and discussion, however you seem more insistent on claiming that I am exhibiting a bias than in countering my arguments, which is a tad shoddy.

You're explaining how others have been involved in disinformation and propaganda, etc. You name countries, names and societies. I cant really argue with that or respond to it. What you say is true. The reason I skirt the conversation is because saying "well, others do it too" just waters-down the original OP. But yes, of course, "others do it too".

reply to post by Skyfloating

..and there even may have been a JFK-conspiracy. The OP wouldnt rule that out.

Very correct. I admit to being overly zealous in regards.

Originally posted by Skyfloating

I sense and agree with the general idea that there is some force, thing, entity that does not like humans. I guess my deeper motivation of posting threads like these is to shed some light on what ideologies this force hides behind.

I guess thats everyones motivation on ATS...to find out whether there is some evil and deceitful agenda in this world. But we differ and are confused on what that is.

I have also reached the conclusion that, as you say, there is/are some entity/entities and evil forces behind the global elite goals. These global elites even participate in what seem to be some sort of satanic rituals at the Bohemian grove.

(I know this has been posted many times before, but here it is again more so for those members how haven't seen it)




These goals seem to include not only to kill and enslave as many people as possible, but in essence to destroy the human spirit, and unfortunately even many regular people have been indoctrinated and brainwashed into accepting, as well as embracing these global elite philosophies and goals.

reply to post by Skyfloating


Okay, since we have achieved something approaching detente...

One of the aspects of the Mitrokhin Archive that I found interesting was that it confirmed the Venona information that Harry Dexter White, at the time of the Presidential race, and once he became vice-President, was also supplying the Soviets with information.

NSA cryptographers identified Harry Dexter White as the source denoted in the Venona decrypts at various times under the code names "Lawyer",[47] "Richard",[48] and "Jurist".[49] Two years after his death, in a memorandum dated 15 October 1950, White was positively identified by the FBI, through evidence gathered by the Venona project, as a Soviet source, code named "Jurist".[50]

Years later, the Justice Department publicly disclosed the existence of the Venona project which deciphered Soviet cable traffic naming White as "Jurist", a Soviet intelligence source. As reported in the FBI Memorandum on White:

You have previously been advised of information obtained from [Venona] regarding Jurist, who was active during 1944. According to the previous information received from [Venona] regarding Jurist, during April, 1944, he had reported on conversations between the then Secretary of State Hull and Vice President Wallace. He also reported on Wallace's proposed trip to China. On August 5, 1944, he reported to the Soviets that he was confident of President Roosevelt's victory in the coming elections unless there was a huge military failure. He also reported that Truman's nomination as Vice President was calculated to secure the vote of the conservative wing of the Democratic Party. It was also reported that Jurist was willing for any self-sacrifice in behalf of the KGB but was afraid that his activities, if exposed, might lead to a political scandal and have an effect on the elections. It was also mentioned that he would be returning to Washington, D. C., on August 17, 1944. The new information from [Venona] indicates that Jurist and Morgenthau were to make a trip to London and Normandy and leaving the United States on August 5, 1944.

This codename was confirmed by the notes of KGB archivist Vasili Nikitich Mitrokhin in his country volume 6, chapter 3, part1, where six key Soviet agents are named. Harry Dexter White is listed as being first "KASSIR" and later "JURIST".[51]

en.wikipedia.org...

But then Venona is fascinating in itself, as is the selective way in which the information gained was communicated. Even Truman, when he became President is said to have been kept out of the loop, and this was in part due to the understanding, that ALL levels of the US government, and it's related agency's had been infiltrated by Soviet agents and sympathisers. Despite knowing that Soviet spies were everywhere, the desire to smoke them out, was over-ridden by the need to ensure that the Soviets didn't know that their communiques had been intercepted.

Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
But then Venona is fascinating in itself, as is the selective way in which the information gained was communicated. Even Truman, when he became President is said to have been kept out of the loop, and this was in part due to the understanding, that ALL levels of the US government, and it's related agency's had been infiltrated by Soviet agents and sympathisers. Despite knowing that Soviet spies were everywhere, the desire to smoke them out, was over-ridden by the need to ensure that the Soviets didn't know that their communiques had been intercepted.

Im not old enough to be familiar with these names and ongoings, but that is highly, highly fascinating.

Originally posted by Skyfloating
Im not old enough to be familiar with these names and ongoings, but that is highly, highly fascinating.

Neither am I, ta very much...not by a long chalk!!!!

reply to post by Skyfloating


Here...

During the initial years of the Cold War, the Venona project was a source of information on Soviet intelligence-gathering activity that was directed at the Western military powers. Although unknown to the public, and even to Presidents Franklin D. Roosevelt and Harry S. Truman, these programs were of importance concerning crucial events of the early Cold War. These included the Julius and Ethel Rosenberg spying case and the defections of Donald Maclean and Guy Burgess to the Soviet Union.

Most decipherable messages were transmitted and intercepted between 1942 and 1945. Sometime in 1945, the existence of the Venona program was revealed to the Soviet Union by the NKVD agent and United States Army SIGINT analyst and cryptologist Bill Weisband.[1] These messages were slowly and gradually decrypted beginning in 1946 and continuing (many times at a low-level of effort in the latter years) through 1980, when the Venona program was terminated, and the remaining amount of effort that was being spent on it was moved to more important projects.

To what extent the various individuals were involved with Soviet intelligence is a topic of dispute. While a number of academics and historians assert that most of the individuals mentioned in the Venona decrypts were most likely either clandestine assets and/or contacts of Soviet intelligence agents,[2][3] others argue that many of those people probably had no malicious intentions and committed no crimes.[4][5][6]

The decrypted messages gave important insights into Soviet behavior in the period during which duplicate one-time pads were used. With the first break into the code, Venona revealed the existence of Soviet espionage[16] at Los Alamos National Laboratories.[17] Identities soon emerged of American, Canadian, Australian, and British spies in service to the Soviet government, including Klaus Fuchs, Alan Nunn May, and Donald Maclean. Others worked in Washington in the State Department, the Treasury, Office of Strategic Services,[18] and even the White House.

The decrypts show the U.S. and other nations were targeted in major espionage campaigns by the Soviet Union as early as 1942. Among those identified are Julius and Ethel Rosenberg; Alger Hiss; Harry Dexter White,[19] the second-highest official in the Treasury Department; Lauchlin Currie,[20] a personal aide to Franklin Roosevelt; and Maurice Halperin,[21] a section head in the Office of Strategic Services.

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by Cosmic4life

'm not quite sure what you're saying SkyFloating.

What Sky is saying at least in my opinion.

Is no matter the topic,no matter the issue/ no matter the conspiracy theory there is always an agenda behind pushing it.

Would not be surprising in the least that clandestined organizations around the world would wage their psychological warfare operations using the media.

Because as we all know no matter what the US is the great satan because people believe what they want to believe which is why propaganda is so effective truth never enters in to that equation not once it is all about the perception of truth.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


Harry Dexter White --- a commie by any definition IMO.

I find this 'funny';

Harry Dexter White (October 9, 1892 – August 16, 1948) was an American economist, and a senior U.S. Treasury department official. He was the senior American official at the 1944 Bretton Woods conference, and reportedly dominated the conference and imposed his vision of post-war financial institutions over the objections of John Maynard Keynes, the British representative. After the war, White was a major architect of the International Monetary Fund and World Bank.

In August 1948, White testified and defended his record to the House Un-American Activities Committee. Three days after testifying he died of a heart attack. Some historians state (but not all agree) he passed secret state information to the Soviet Union during World War II.[1] Steil says White acted out of idealism not as a member of the Communist Party because "not simply because he believed that the Soviet Union was a vital U.S. ally but because he also believed passionately in the success of the bold Soviet experiment with socialism." Steil says White was not a Communist party member, because, "White would not take orders from Moscow. He worked on his own terms. He joined no underground movements."

Harry Dexter White

""Three days after testifying he died of a heart attack."" What a surprise

We're discussing this thread on ATS Live! - 10th August 2013

Just going to point out that although there are people coming forward to claim the communists were to be blamed/credited for these conspiracy theories it's not like they're left field theories.
If i was a KGB agent back then and the U.S said they went to the moon, i would spread "No you didn't propaganda".
When Kennedy was shot, the U.S media didn't exactly dig too deep to find the truth.
If i was a KGB agent back then and the U.S said Kennedy was killed by a Commie, i would spread "No he wasn't propaganda"
It's a game of opposites.
In Russia's case it's extreme. America's petro-dollar gave them unlimited wealth to streak out onto a new path where-as everyone else followed. America hasn't exactly covered itself in glory when trying to debunk these stories.

Originally posted by neo96

What Sky is saying at least in my opinion.

Is no matter the topic,no matter the issue/ no matter the conspiracy theory there is always an agenda behind pushing it.

I also think thats pretty much what he is saying.Its "Question everything" not "Question everything except for my pet theories and beliefs".

Originally posted by neformore

We're discussing this thread on ATS Live! - 10th August 2013

Cool....I missed it but look forward to the replay.

Originally posted by xuenchen

Harry Dexter White --- a commie by any definition IMO.
...

You know what's worse? To this day there are still people who claim "there was no commie threat ever", and these same people believe the threat was all invented by the U.S. but look at the U.S. today, progressives are in power with the same, or very similar ideas to those of the KGB/ Soviet communist party.

Americans and other people around the world are being riled up by the true elites and they are making their best to put the blame for all the problems in the world on "capitalism in general", when it is simply being made the scapegoat and as a Trojan horse to implement more socialist/communist policies in countries like the U.S.

But truth be told it might be already too late. These people have either infiltrated every level of government, or they have corrupted them to implement these same socialist/communist ideologies which created so many dictatorships around the world. The warnings from all these former socialist/communist officers have been unheeded to the detriment of everyone's individual rights, and freedom in general.

To this day there are still regular people who believe these "changes are for the good of everyone"... But hey, there was never any "commie threat", it's not like the warnings that people like Golytsin have been given to the western world have come to pass right?...

reply to post by ElectricUniverse


Good post.

Maybe people need to start believing the opposite of what these goofs say.

Most of the "there was no commie threat ever" and blame "capitalism in general" rhetoric comes from the commie outfits themselves.

The mafia was using the same tactics.

They always insisted that "there is no Cosa Nostra"

Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

You know what's worse? To this day there are still people who claim "there was no commie threat ever", and these same people believe the threat was all invented by the U.S.

The Commies, despite losing in the end, took down half of America with them. I suspect that our dumbed-down school-and-university system was also under their influence for some time.

I listened to the Radio-Show treatment of this thread and have a few comments on what was discussed. Quotes are from the show:

Everybody does this. The CIA did this too.

The "everbody does it" argument carries the implication that the CIA and KGB were "equally bad" and did similar things.

But the CIAs method of hurting Russia was not a cultural / journalistic war against Russia but more about Espionage and gaining Information. It was not possible to disseminate American propaganda on Russian soil because the KGB controlled all aspects of the press and public life.

The reason only anti-American conspiracy-theories are noted is because the OP is an American. If he would live elsewhere he would see mostly conspiracy-theories against other countries.

Having lived in various parts of the world, I cant confirm this. Most of the conspiracy-theories being read in the MidEast, in Persia, in Asia, in Europe have the U.S. as the biggest or one of the bigger culprits. If you list the 10 most popular conspiracy-theories in the world you will find that at least 7 of them are anti-American/anti-West/anti-Israel.

The KGB hasnt existed in the last 20 years, but we still have conspiracy-theories

The KGB hasnt existed in the last 20 years and we still discover KGB sleeper agents on American soil, such as the 10 Obama kicked out in 2010.

Here is an example of the reverse situation...Americans possibly crafting an UFO-Incident for Soviet Consumption:

The Roswell Incident as a tool of the Cold War