The bloodline of Tubal the great, descendent of Cain

In my opinion one of the best videos on the true history of masonry and its origins in the bloodline of Cain who's descendents are tubal Cain and hiram abiff.

This could be interesting, but my mobile device doesn't support flash.

Could you please provide more information on the video/topic.

Originally posted by Metallicus
This could be interesting, but my mobile device doesn't support flash.

Could you please provide more information on the video/topic.

Indeed. It's nearly an hour long.
Please give a short synopsis, of what may well be worth my watch!

Yes you should watch it, it is a very good video on the history of not only masonry but the origins of all ancient esoteric brotherhoods.

One of the Elohim mated with eve and she had a son Cain who unlike Able and Seth was not the son of Adam.

Cain was banished for killing his half brother Able and went off into the world, built the first city and found himself a wife.

The line of Cain were more intellectual then the line of Seth (because they had some of the Elohim dna in them) and it was them who discovered all the Sciences and arts in antiquity. Even when Solomons temple was being built Solomon was not capable of building it so he employed hiram abiff (a descendent of tubal Cain) to build it. In truth the wisdom for which Solomon has become renowned actually belongs to a descendent of Cain

When the descendents of Cain knew a great flood was approaching they preserved the ancient teachings by inscribing them in stone these teachings became the core of what was secretly taught in these secret society s after the flood.

The genetic line of Cain was all but destroyed save Tubal Cain, it was from him that the last remaining descendents of Cain came who were the god kings of antiquity.

reply to post by new_here


I watched about half of it. It's an interesting theory trying to tie the origins of modern freemasonry to the Biblical account of Cain and Able/ Adam and Eve. I suppose if you start with that premise in mind, it would be much easier to tie facts together to justify the story.

Being a mason myself, I can only offer my perspective. Our rituals are all based on allegory and use biblical teachings to illustrate some key points. It's my understanding that none of them are based in fact, rather they are stories meant to help teach the lessons of the degree.

This account may well be true in part or whole, but getting the majority of any group to agree on it with the facts presented would be a challenge for anyone. I am happy with the version of Freemasonry I know, but always enjoy further discussion on the matter.

It should be noted that the Pike quote about the outer Portico of masonry was based on his false belief that masonry was a direct decedent of the Knights Templar, and that history was hidden from the new initiates. (based on what I have learned here)

If anyone can find the appropriate text proving that assertion, it would be greatly appreciated. (as of now it's hearsay)

reply to post by LUXUS


seems interesting but Solomon employed Gins to help build the temple. The seal of solomon (unkown but thought to be an eight pointed star) which was on his ring gave him command of the Ginn.

It could just be a reference to an unclean people who practiced forbidden arts that were used for the temples construction.

also it is a common theme of occult sciences being used in conjunction of sacred practices condoned by God and such a thing being a point of conflict.

Eve or lilith being teachers to mankind against gods wishes, the people of abraham falling into disfavor over and over again for idoltry. The temple being unclean for its use by idolaters.....ect...

Sacred knowledge is always forbidden by God. He is to be the only source of it as we can interpret such from his repeated punishment of those seeking other light.

IMO....teachers of men should teach how to learn....not what to learn and how. Maybe that is the real issue with mortals learning the secrets of the gods and the universe in antiquity. If it is not self taught it can be used to control mortal men instead of liberating them.

Originally posted by tadaman
IMO....teachers of men should teach how to learn....

You got it.
The key to understanding. You also have to be willing to accept being wrong.

reply to post by network dude


right. its a feast for the hungry alone.

reply to post by LUXUS


Legend has it Tubal Cain's daughter Naamah was married to Noah's son Ham and therefore was on the Ark. She was the mother of Cush the first "god-king" in the post flood world at Babel.

It is through Naamah that the bloodline of Cain survived the deluge.

This means Nimrod would be the direct blood great-grandson of Tubal Cain himself.

Interresting thread, great stories.

God Bless,

reply to post by ElohimJD


Tubal-cain dug into the side of a mountain and stayed there with his father, when the flood passed over he came out and later had a son with Hams wife. Nimrod was indeed a descendent of Cain and named as a mason in the old Charges or Constitutions.

I believe this line went into Egypt, if I remember correctly Egypt in the bible is named the land of Ham.

reply to post by network dude

"The Blue Degrees are but the outer court or portico of the Temple. Part of the symbols are displayed there to the Initiate, but he is intentionally misled by false interpretations. It is not intended that he shall understand them; but it is intended that he shall imagine he understands them. Their true explication is reserved for the Adepts, the Princes of Masonry." (Morals and Dogma, p.819)

Actually what he is saying there is absolutely true, what does the acacia sprig represent? what does the Delta of Enoch represent, what does Jacobs ladder represent, what does the beehive represent, what does the triple tau represent, what does 32 represent, what does 72 represent...most masons do not know the true esoteric meanings behind these things are but are told instead that they symbolise various moral teachings.

This is why Helena Blavatsky described modern Freemasonry as nothing but "ribbons and regalia"

Can it be that the "mystic tie" is but a rope of sand, and Masonry but a toy to feed the vanity of a few leaders who rejoice in ribbons and regalia? Is its authority as false as its antiquity? It seems so, indeed; and yet, as "even the fleas have smaller fleas to bite 'em," there are Catholic alarmists, even here, who pretend to fear Masonry!

reply to post by LUXUS


That is where my disconnect is. The group I joined is an esoteric group that teaches morality in simple ways using symbolism and allegory. It's not some powerful elite world ruling group, just regular people tying to better themselves and their community.

Looking into teachings of the mystery schools, they go hundreds of layers deeper than what masonry teaches. And then you have people like Helena, who think masonry must have been something way more complex, but has somehow lost most of it's meaning. Now I don't know any of this for fact, I just believe it's this way based on what I have learned this far. Masonry is a starting point. It always has been. It can be all a person needs if they don't want to study all the deeply occult things you and others look for. Or it can make a person start to look for the things you have found already.

But what's wrong with it being exactly what it is? Does it have to be some fantastic mystery, veiled in layers of hidden truths?

What does the sprig of acacia represent? Depends on who you ask. It is mentioned in the first degree lecture, but is expounded upon as a key clue in the third degree ritual. So it has dual meaning at least, but only in the context you put it in. If you ask what does it mean in the ritual of the third degree, any master mason alive can answer that with assurance. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar when purchased from the cigar store. (IMHO)

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by ElohimJD

 

Tubal-cain dug into the side of a mountain and stayed there with his father, when the flood passed over he came out and later had a son with Hams wife. Nimrod was indeed a descendent of Cain and named as a mason in the old Charges or Constitutions.

I believe this line went into Egypt, if I remember correctly Egypt in the bible is named the land of Ham.

100% correct.

They went down into Egypt at first and ruled from there. However they were also responsible through Assur (Semiremis' bastard child) for begining the Mesopotamian empires of Assyria and Babel.

Then Shem (deified as Seth) killed Cush (deified as Osiris) and cut him into pieces (14) for rebellion against God's governement through Noah.

Semiremis (Cush's wife) claimed Nimrod (her son) as the reincarnation of Cush and married him.

Cush = Osiris
Semiremis = Isis
Nimrod = Horus

Shem = Seth

This trinity of deities have been recreated in all cultures across the Earth when languages were confounded at Babel a few generations later.

God Bless,

Originally posted by network dude
reply to post by LUXUS

 

That is where my disconnect is. The group I joined is an esoteric group that teaches morality in simple ways using symbolism and allegory.

But what's wrong with it being exactly what it is? Does it have to be some fantastic mystery, veiled in layers of hidden truths?

Esoteric has a specific meaning, one can not say it is an esoteric group and then say that the teachings are just allegory.

What is wrong with it? well that would depend on who's perspective you see it from those who understand the original purpose and mission of such "secret society's" can only view modern freemasonry with distaste.

On the other hand those who are looking for a club for social activity's and a bit of charity thrown in would probably quite enjoy it

reply to post by ElohimJD


Osiris is also known as Asar, Asari, Aser, Ausar, Ausir which is actually a title such as Ahura Mazda, Ahura is really asura and denotes he was an asura....ie a titan that is a demigod (human/elohim hybrid) or simply put a descendent of Cain!

Originally posted by LUXUS

Esoteric has a specific meaning, one can not say it is an esoteric group and then say that the teachings are just allegory.

Definition of ESOTERIC 1 a : designed for or understood by the specially initiated alone b : requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group ; broadly : difficult to understand 2 a : limited to a small circle b : private, confidential 3 : of special, rare, or unusual interest

link to source
It seems to fit perfectly with what freemasonry is and what it teaches. While it's not difficult to understand, and not very well hidden from others, it does fit nicely with that definition.

What is wrong with it? well that would depend on who's perspective you see it from those who understand the original purpose and mission of such "secret society's" can only view modern freemasonry with distaste.

Since the purpose of freemasonry is simply to make good men better, I guess I just don't see where speculative masonry has deviated from it's path. It, by nature, couldn't be anything other that was it was intended to be since we keep the traditions as close to what they have been for a reason. I just think outsiders have placed a much bigger picture of what they think it's supposed to be, and once they learn the truth, or accept the truth, they are let down. I can say I have felt what is supposed to be felt, when you go through a degree and it's an amazing thing. You usually take days or weeks to understand it all, but it's still nothing that hasn't been explained here before. I would expect Rosicrucian teachings to much more esoteric and mysterious than those of masonry. And probably other groups, more so. They all have their place. (IMHO)

On the other hand those who are looking for a club for social activity's and a bit of charity thrown in would probably quite enjoy it

I know I do.

Firstly Madame Blavatsky, Albert Pike or any others who assert that freemasonry of today has degraded say so based not on what they feel it should be but what they were told it was.

Where were they told what it was? In the ancient temple legend of the operative masons.

We know masonry had three phases

1 Purely operative (the most ancient)
2 Mix of operative and speculative
3 largely speculative (the least ancient)

Who, what, when, where, how

Who = The descendents of Cain
What = Science
When = The time of the flood
Where = ?
How = By writing it on two pillars

b : requiring or exhibiting knowledge that is restricted to a small group ; broadly : difficult to understand 2 a : limited to a small circle

reply to post by network dude


The knowledge (Science) from before the flood!


That is why so many have said modern freemasonry has failed and for no other reason!

Tubalcain designed the high esteemed harem...
and with it the scales of weights and measures which must be met by honest and noble men.
He built it for his sister.
Don't get all cranky on me... I'm just saying.

Originally posted by tadaman
reply to post by LUXUS

 

seems interesting but Solomon employed Gins to help build the temple. The seal of solomon (unkown but thought to be an eight pointed star) which was on his ring gave him command of the Ginn.

The seal of Solomon was adopted from the Magen David, the shield of David, which is a six pointed star, not eight.

Originally posted by LUXUS

We know masonry had three phases

1 Purely operative (the most ancient)
2 Mix of operative and speculative
3 largely speculative (the least ancient)

How can you say that? Operative masons still exist today - they are most certainly not just a 'phase'.

It is the allegory in Freemasonry that teaches that we stem from the operatives. The actual history of Freemasons is unknown. Some say we stem from the operatives. Some say we stem from the Templars. Some say we stem from the Rosicrucians. But to state categorically like you have done that there were three 'phases' is entirely speculation.