The "Stand Your Ground Law" had nothing to do with the Zimmerman case.

Can we just get one thing straight here? Zimmerrman killing Martin had nothing to do with the "Stand Your Ground Law". It was about self-defence and the laws on that have been in place for years. All the "Stand Your Ground Law" does is remove your obligation to try to flee before using force in self-defence. Let me give an example. You are in a parking lot. Somebody starts shooting at you. Your car is between you and the person shooting at you. You run to your car, open the passenger side door, pull out your gun and kill the person shooting at you. Before the SYG Law you could have been charged with murder because by running to your car you ran towards the shooter instead of running away.
SYG had nothing to do with this because Zimmerman couldn't flee because Martin was on top of him. The County DA wouldn't press charges and the Police chief was FIRED because he wouldn't bring charges against ZImmerman.

All of this SYG crap was media hype and political crap. Media hype because it was a Presidential election year and the media was looking for anything to do with race to help Obama out. Political crap because Liberals hate anything that makes life harder for crooks and Florida was a "battleground" state.

reply to post by JIMC5499


Golly, you sound downright upset about this! Is it in response to something (and in that case, why didn't you just post it in response?) or did it just bubble up inside you?

You're right. George Zimmerman didn't use SYG as a defense. But when this event first came out in the media, there was quite a bit of talk about SYG in Florida and it got some national attention. Even that liberal puke Sean Hannity talked about it on his show! So, while that defense didn't make it to trial, it was still in the spotlight as people learned about it and made their judgments about it.

I think SYG is a dangerous law and should be abolished. As we have been shown, Self-Defense is a perfectly wonderful way to defend one's self under these circumstances in a court of law.

You can blame this media hype on Obama and the liberals, but the PEOPLE are who made this case as big as it was. But it's a pretty typical strategy to blame everything you don't like on your political "enemy".

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Hmmm.........

So this Administration didnt have any "help" in making this case a Media Circus?

and after?

Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over after Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established double jeopardy, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

Obama Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin

No "Politics" here................

Originally posted by sonnny1
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Hmmm.........

So this Administration didnt have any "help" in making this case a Media Circus?

and after?

Just when we thought the George Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case was over after Zimmerman’s acquittal, the Obama Administration has taken the steps needed to file federal charges, thus sidestepping the well established double jeopardy, against Zimmerman. Unidentified sources within the Administration have confirmed that Obama, and Justice Eric Holder at the Department of Justice have filed charges against Zimmerman for “violating Trayvon Martin’s civil rights”.

Obama Files Federal Charges Against George Zimmerman Following Acquittal in Shooting Murder of Trayvon Martin

No "Politics" here................

Frankly I think this case deserved all of the attention it received, a 17 year old kid armed with a bag of skittles and a can of Iced Tea was gunned down because he was wrongly profiled as a criminal, a punk and a god-dam**ed a**hole. On that day George Zimmerman was hell bent on not letting him get away.

reply to post by muse7


Sure. It deserved attention, But..................

Not this "Administrations" Attention. There are Thousands of missing children in the States that deserve this Administrations attention, and I don't see them going after them with as much force in this case, or any other. Its Politically motivated case, to Polarize America. That's all they are doing. MHO

reply to post by muse7


To be honest, I have no idea if GZ actually murdered this lad, but the whole 'Skittles and Ice Tea' narrative is getting really old.

From a UK perspective it has been simply astonishing to witness how the Liberal/Conservative American media has been shaping this case to involve either a sweet, innocent child or a barbaric gang banger - there's no desire for actual justice in all that, simply agenda pushing.

They should be ashamed of themselves because a young man died (regardless of context) and their constant 'finessing' of the story has meant that it was basically impossible for either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman to receive a fair and objective trial of the facts. Both men have been done a disservice by the media.

The UK press has been nearly as bad. The Mail (Conservative) has been running the grille image, whilst the Guardian (Liberal) has been running the 12 year old image in their coverage today.

Makes me sick.

Originally posted by KingIcarus
reply to post by muse7

 

To be honest, I have no idea if GZ actually murdered this lad, but the whole 'Skittles and Ice Tea' narrative is getting really old.

From a UK perspective it has been simply astonishing to witness how the Liberal/Conservative American media has been shaping this case to involve either a sweet, innocent child or a barbaric gang banger - there's no desire for actual justice in all that, simply agenda pushing.

They should be ashamed of themselves because a young man died (regardless of context) and their constant 'finessing' of the story has meant that it was basically impossible for either Trayvon Martin or George Zimmerman to receive a fair and objective trial of the facts. Both men have been done a disservice by the media.

The UK press has been nearly as bad. The Mail (Conservative) has been running the grille image, whilst the Guardian (Liberal) has been running the 12 year old image in their coverage today.

Makes me sick.

edit on 14-7-2013 by KingIcarus because: (no reason given)

Well I'm sorry facts make you sick.

1. The man thought the teen looked suspicious.

2. The man called the police to report his suspicions about the teen.

3. The man was told by the police not to chase and pursue the teen.

4. The man decided to chase and pursue the teen anyway.

5 . The man was carrying a loaded gun.

6. The teen was not carrying a gun.

7. The teen was not carrying any weapon.

8. The teen was carrying candy.

9. The teen was not committing any crime.

10. The teen was not trespassing, as he was walking toward his father’s condo.

11. The man and the teen met in a physical confrontation.

12. The man and the teen fought, wrestled to the ground, and punches were exchanged.

13. The man shot the teen with his gun.

14. The man shot the teen while both were on the ground.

15. The shot from the man’s gun killed the teen.

16. There is no evidence that the teen was committing a crime or about to commit any crime.

17. But for the man chasing and pursuing the teen, there would have been no physical confrontation.

18. But for the physical confrontation, there would have been no fight.

19. But for the fight, the man would not have shot the teen.

20. But for the shot, the teen would be alive.

LINK

You are correct that SYG had nothing to do with the trial, but it does play a big role in assessing how responsible of a gun owner Zimmerman was.

He said he had no idea what SYG was before this incident. Which means he didn't know the laws surrounding his right to carry a weapon.

Regardless of the outcome and what happened, the SYG issue and other things he has said, make me think it's clear that he was an uninformed gun owner and probably should not have been able to carry one.

reply to post by sonnny1


A. I will believe that when I see a credible source.
B. I would support it. I see this as a civil rights case. And there are many in the country who agree with me.

Thousands Sign Petition to Urge Government to File Civil Rights Charges against Zimmerman

If Zimmerman had been the one walking home in the rain, unarmed, and Trayvon Martin had been the one in the car, and had gotten out of his car, armed, to follow Zimmerman, and it all ended in Zimmerman's death, we would be seeing a VERY different outcome in this case and in people's opinions.

The Justice Dept may end up filing charges, but I'll believe it when I see it happen. And not because some "unnamed sources" and right-wing websites make the claim.

This is America. Don't expect people to just sit still and take the outcome of this case and move on. They have EVERY right to pressure the Justice Dept to file a civil rights case. Blame Obama all you want but in the end, this case had a huge racial element and anyone who denies that is fooling themselves. There's a reason George Zimmerman never called 911 when there was a white teen walking around the neighborhood...

reply to post by muse7


I'm not sickened by your list of facts at all. I think that's an entirely fair summary of events, the only point I would make about your list is that Martin was cutting through people's yards rather than walking the street - I guess that's technically trespass, but I'd imagine it was simply a time saver as it was raining. That presumably caught the attention of Zimmerman, but it's hardly a serious matter.

Anyhow, my actual point has nothing to do with the events resulting in the death of Trayvon Martin - my concern is with the media's use of an undeniably tragic event to push their conservative/liberal agendas. Both have been equally bad.

It is of course the media's duty to report the news, but this entire case has been framed in a most distasteful way - the intention has been simply to mislead and shape the narrative. Trayvon Martin deserved to have the facts of his demise carefully scrutinised to determine if a crime had been committed, and George Zimmerman (who never denied killing Martin) deserved the opportunity to defend this act against allegations of wrongdoing by an impartial court and jury. My concern is that the media muddied the waters to a degree that neither party could realistically receive 'justice'.

It's good copy though, isn't it?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic


A. I will believe that when I see a credible source.
B. I would support it. I see this as a civil rights case. And there are many in the country who agree with me.

Thousands Sign Petition to Urge Government to File Civil Rights Charges against Zimmerman

And? There are MANY Petitions out there.

Many wanted "Give everyone a unicorn and a lollipop for Boxing Day", but it didn't happen.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
If Zimmerman had been the one walking home in the rain, unarmed, and Trayvon Martin had been the one in the car, and had gotten out of his car, armed, to follow Zimmerman, and it all ended in Zimmerman's death, we would be seeing a VERY different outcome in this case and in people's opinions.

And that's the problem. "Opinions"........

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Blame Obama all you want but in the end, this case had a huge racial element and anyone who denies that is fooling themselves.

That's another problem. Because people WANT this to be a race thing. BTW, what "race" is Zimmerman?




Jorge Zimmerman is but a name..........isn't it? Lets keep color as the focal point..........

reply to post by sonnny1


(I'll expand on this during the radio show)

Two people have a confrontation.

One ends up dead.

It happens every day.

But this case was different. How? The media and the politicians decided to make it an issue. Like the Superbowl or a World Series or a World Cup, two sides meet. Most people could care less, but through marketing, media manipulation, social engineering, people pick a side.

All of a sudden, the average person has "ownership" a stake in the matter. It's not one side, but MY side. It's not another team, but THEIR team, the bad guys.

The president made it personal. "My son would have looked like Trevon".

Sharpton, the media made it personal. "It's about you. Are YOU safe?"

They took a tragic incident and made it about you or me or anyone.


If we let them. If we use reason, critical thinking, and not let our emotions dictate our actions, then we can look at this with abstract reasoning and not as a "my side" or a "your side".

This was a base, ugly attempt and provoking an incident or a series of incidents.

Let's all make sure that they fail.

reply to post by beezzer


Agree.

And now, they will go after the "Stand Your Ground Law".

Its ALL a ploy to keep Americans at odds with each other.

BTW, what time is the show?

reply to post by sonnny1


Dunno yet.

reply to post by sonnny1

Originally posted by sonnny1
Many wanted "Give everyone a unicorn and a lollipop for Boxing Day", but it didn't happen.

True. And a civil rights case may not happen. I'm not signing a petition. It may or may not happen. But I won't believe it until I see a reputable source. And then, I will believe it and will verbally support it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
And that's the problem. "Opinions"........

Hey, opinions are what run this country. They are what elect the leaders, push for legislation, decide what we see on TV and in the media, they are the foundation of our republic. You can call them a problem, but they are pretty damn powerful.

That's another problem. Because people WANT this to be a race thing. BTW, what "race" is Zimmerman?

He's Hispanic. Just because it's a race thing doesn't mean there's a white guy involved. If Trayvon Martin had been white, this wouldn't have happened. George Z NEVER called 911 about a white kid roaming the neighborhood... Zimmerman's race doesn't matter. It's Martin's race that makes this a racial issue.

I don't even know or care what your last comment means.

Originally posted by sonnny1
Its ALL a ploy to keep Americans at odds with each other.

^This.
The powers in control of the media are what is pushing this into a race issue by insinuating that Trayvon got lynched or something. The bottom line is that Trayvon got too aggressive and got shot point blank period. It's funny how the media is fueling the race card and a majority of black folks are eating it up as if they were starving. IMO This is an obvious attempt to divide two, or possibly more, races to create turmoil amongst U.S. citizens for the purposes of distraction to a bigger issue or in effort to provoke one side into uncharacteristic behavior that would implement a form of martial law.

The prosecution is what screwed up this case and I believe it was on purpose for the effect I described above. I'm watching CNN and they are the main culprits as far as making this all about race. I'm noticing that the white anchors are even alluding to this being a race issue and are doing it in a manner which makes them look sympathetic with the black people who are upset. I can see straight through it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Zimmerman's race doesn't matter. It's Martin's race that makes this a racial issue.

Sure it does. Cause if it was Jorge Zimmerman, we wouldn't be talking about it. Period.

(BTW, Jorge is the Hispanic way of saying George)

I will leave with this to Ponder.............

Chicago’s Latinos Para La Revolución expressed anger today at the New York Times for referring to George Zimmerman as a “White Hispanic,” a term that many claim was invented to add more fire to the case where a Latino man murdered a Black teenager, claiming it was self defense. The group is also very angry as to why Latinos aren’t defending George Zimmerman, who—according to many sources—was attacked.

Juan Young, a tenured professor at Chicago’s Martin Luther King Jr. College, has spoken out about the silence of Latinos over this situation. Young, whose mother is Latino and whose father is Black, thinks Latinos are running scared because the will lose support from Democrats and many major media outlets if they speak out.

“No matter what happened in this unfortunate situation, the media and Democrats are out to convict George Zimmerman. Latinos depend on these groups to protect them when it comes to immigration issues. However, wouldn’t it be wiser to do the right thing than just stand back?" Young asks.

Latinos continued silence over George Zimmerman angers some

We can never say this Administration and the Media didn't have ulterior motives when it came down to this case.

They will try to use it now to justify on changing "Stand Your Ground Law".......

reply to post by TrueMessiah


You may be right.

The disservice to Americans, and the blatant excuse to change Laws that have sufficed for years, is truly mind boggling.

Originally posted by sonnny1

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic

Zimmerman's race doesn't matter. It's Martin's race that makes this a racial issue.

Sure it does. Cause if it was Jorge Zimmerman, we wouldn't be talking about it. Period.

(BTW, Jorge is the Hispanic way of saying George)

I will leave with this to Ponder.............

Chicago’s Latinos Para La Revolución expressed anger today at the New York Times for referring to George Zimmerman as a “White Hispanic,” a term that many claim was invented to add more fire to the case where a Latino man murdered a Black teenager, claiming it was self defense. The group is also very angry as to why Latinos aren’t defending George Zimmerman, who—according to many sources—was attacked.

Juan Young, a tenured professor at Chicago’s Martin Luther King Jr. College, has spoken out about the silence of Latinos over this situation. Young, whose mother is Latino and whose father is Black, thinks Latinos are running scared because the will lose support from Democrats and many major media outlets if they speak out.

“No matter what happened in this unfortunate situation, the media and Democrats are out to convict George Zimmerman. Latinos depend on these groups to protect them when it comes to immigration issues. However, wouldn’t it be wiser to do the right thing than just stand back?" Young asks.

Latinos continued silence over George Zimmerman angers some

We can never say this Administration and the Media didn't have ulterior motives when it came down to this case.

They will try to use it now to justify on changing "Stand Your Ground Law".......

What are you doing? Stop! George has to have his half white side out there because Trayvon was a black KID armed with CANDY! If you call George what he mostly looks like, hispanic, then your racially charged case doesn't work that well for the political agenda!

People seriously have problems with 'stand your ground" you know the same place that has the 10-20 LIFE GUN LAW?

I agree LAW didn't have anything to do with the Zimmerman case that was all politics.