Nelson Mandela died 26/6/2013 according to Guardian Express

So, as I'm sure many of you know, the 94 year old Nelson Mandela has been in the hospital for the past 25 days for a lung infection. Dozens of journalists have been camping out in front of the hospital waiting for any news on the beloved freedom fighter. But one newspaper - the Guardian Express (which has no links with the British news paper "The Guardian") - insists that Nelson Mandela already died on the 26th of June...

...
If the iconic Nelson Mandela died last night, there are speculations that the government and family intitially did not admit the truth because of the American Present Barack Obama’s upcoming trip to South Africa. President Obama is expected to arrive in South Africa on Friday, and it is an important event for the country. Announcing the death of Nelson Mandela could overshadow this historic visit.
...
Source - 26 June 2013

And they are sticking with their story, even though no other news agency dares to follow their example.

The whole world is in an uproar about whether the articles that they’ve read are true, concerning the former South African President and game changer, Nelson Mandela. The question still remains; is he dead or alive?
...
Source - 1 July 2013

...The last official update on Mandela from the presidency was announced on Friday, June 28, the same day president Obama arrived in South Africa. The amount of media attention given to the US president over the weekend superseded reports pertaining to Mandela. This morning after the US president and his family left South Africa for their planned trip to Tanzania, the South African public is still waiting for President Zuma to provide an update on the Mandela situation.
...
Source - 1 July 2013

I'm not really in a position to know whether this is true or not. (I might mention that I live in Pretoria where Mandela is hospitalized). I can't help but wonder though:

1. There has been little to no news since Mandela has been hospitalized. The only updates are "his status is critical" or "he is improving" a day or two later. And then back to the first a day or two after that.
2. No journalists have been allowed inside the hospital (which is understandable). Thus no pictures of Mandela in his hospital bed. Not even one leaked by a hospital staff member.
3. The Mandela family is involved in a very public "dispute" over where Mandela should be buried, even though he is not dead. (See also a side story)
4. Several of the countries Ministers visited Mandela in hospital on the 24-25th of June. Mandela's lawyer and friend of 60 years has not been to the hospital to visit him. There was a scheduled visit but was cancelled by his family. Obama whom is currently in the country did not visit Mandela (which is understandable).

Mandela was a great man, but he is old and he has been suffering with ill health for years now. Thus it would be no surprise if he passed away. It would however be disturbing if his death was withheld from the world - especially if only for the sake of Obama's visit...

I would be surprised if Mandela is already dead and we didn't know it - but then again the SA government never cease to surprise...

Aside from his burial location, what would be the motive for pretending he is still alive?

Who would gain from such an act?

Just my two cents.

reply to post by andy06shake


I'm not really sold on the/a motive either, but according to the article:

...
did not admit the truth because of the American Present Barack Obama’s upcoming trip to South Africa. President Obama is expected to arrive in South Africa on Friday [28 June], and it is an important event for the country. Announcing the death of Nelson Mandela could overshadow this historic visit.
...
Please understand that as soon as the government announces the news the majority of people will take to the streets to mourn his death and the weeping and wailing would be a nightmare, the economy will suffer and the different tribes will make a massive drama about his death. ...

There is also the more sinister conspiracy with regards to "Uhuru" or "Night of the Long Knives". According to this urban legend the black people of the country will murder all white people the night following Nelson Mandela's death. Delaying the announcement of Mandela's death would supposedly give "them" the opportunity to get ready for the genocide. Personally I think that is hogwash.

I thought "Night of the Long Knives" was a Nazi thing, how ironic!

I imagine the caucasians over there are not silly and armed to the teeth, just look at the anti theft systems they have in there cars and residences.

This world of ours just gets worse and worse, when will we ever learn???

Originally posted by Gemwolf
1. There has been little to no news since Mandela has been hospitalized. The only updates are "his status is critical" or "he is improving" a day or two later. And then back to the first a day or two after that.

What else would you report? Why exactly is this a point to consider?

2. No journalists have been allowed inside the hospital (which is understandable). Thus no pictures of Mandela in his hospital bed.

So, understandably, this is not a point to consider?

Not even one leaked by a hospital staff member.

Using the same logic of leaking, don't you think it'd be very easy for someone in the hospital to leak the major news that Mandela's dead? Why is this a point to consider?

3. The Mandela family is involved in a very public "dispute" over where Mandela should be buried, even though he is not dead. (See also a side story)

A public "dispute" over where Mandela should be buried before his death clearly indicates that Mandela himself is interested in the subject. Why is this a point to consider?

4. Several of the countries Ministers visited Mandela in hospital on the 24-25th of June. Mandela's lawyer and friend of 60 years has not been to the hospital to visit him. There was a scheduled visit but was cancelled by his family. Obama whom is currently in the country did not visit Mandela (which is understandable).

I don't know what this means, except that it's understandable?

I was Googling.
Here is something that I found:

Mass murder of ALL whites in South Africa? topix.com
Scroll down a bit, there is quite a lot of hatred towards whites in the posts.

This is the second conspiracy I have heard regarding Mandela - Ima see what I can dig up.

reply to post by Gemwolf


Last week Wednesday Afternoon there was a major influx of police services at Mandela House, and the Mandela Organization in Central Street, from just after 1pm.

I have friends in Central who told me something was happening. But, in the end I thought it was as others were saying, it was all about the Obama visit.

ATS

reply to post by Nevertheless


My notes were not intended to prove or disprove anything. Just general observations.

1. No substantial information like he is awake and alert or he is on life support or other medical information at any point. The journalists only report "critical/better" because that is the only information coming from the hospital.

2. Usually with high profile hospitalizations the family would allow a journalist of choice inside for a photo op at some point. Not here. While it's no definitive indication of anything, it is noteworthy considering that the Mandela family (children and grandchildren) are known for their love of the spotlight.
The source of the Guardian's claim that Mandela is dead is supposedly a staff member from the hospital..

3. Mandela has been in and out of hospital a couple of times of the past couple of years. Never was burial even mentioned. At what point do you start discussing Grandpa's funeral if he's ill in the hospital? Before or after he's dead - unless the doctors say he's going to die? And do you need to make it such a public affair?
Also, Nelson Mandela's will already indicated where he should be buried, so it should even be an issue. See here or here.

4. The minister's visit may have been to say a last goodbye the day before is "supposed death"? Mandela's life-long friend is not allowed to visit him on - what could be - his death bed?
Obama is a non-issue. It can mean something (he was already dead, thus no point in Obama visiting him) or it could mean nothing (Obama didn't visit out of respect for the very ill man).

As I said - none of this need to mean anything either way. It is however a good idea to give people something to think about or discuss when writing an opening post.

I do remember seeing on Facebook that he died, a number of friends posted it.
But apparently it was in error and everyone quickly said the media got it wrong.. so they took it back.. .. seems like a pretty big article to get wrong in today's instant online news.
but he's right, haven't heard much since his sudden down turn wed/thur

reply to post by butcherguy


I did a thread on it several years ago - see here - a long and boring read. I later abandoned it because the answer became quite clear as I put the time and effort into the topic, i.e. it was nothing but an urban legend. Also the thread was an attraction for some right-wingers peddling fear and hate.

I don't think they would hold off an announcement of his death for any reason other than to ward off another race war. There are a lot of rumors and online blogs about this and that's enough to prompt an uprising as it's such an active topic. He has lived a full life and is certain to leave us soon so time will tell. In the meanwhile there is definitely a hatred above all hate for whites in some circles. Its chilling to read some of the comments. I would be getting out of that country "just in case" if white right now.

Mandelas death would leave a power vacuum in SA and its tribal communities would fight for power.

For mine he is dead and they dont want to tell any one..

Originally posted by Gemwolf
reply to post by butcherguy

 

I did a thread on it several years ago - see here - a long and boring read. I later abandoned it because the answer became quite clear as I put the time and effort into the topic, i.e. it was nothing but an urban legend. Also the thread was an attraction for some right-wingers peddling fear and hate.

edit on 2-7-2013 by Gemwolf because: (no reason given)

I must admit that I am totally unfamiliar with the state of race relations in South Africa.
But I certainly could understand if there is still hatred seething there.
I will be reading to learn what I can from you and others that have an understanding of it.
Thank you for any more first hand knowledge that you add.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Mandelas death would leave a power vacuum in SA and its tribal communities would fight for power.

For mine he is dead and they dont want to tell any one..

Mandela hasn't been a power player for almost a decade. He is just an old man that did great things and have a legacy that is unmatched. He has no say or input in anything political - not for years now. So I don't think his death would have a big impact in terms of politics.

reply to post by butcherguy


Well that's just my opinion. The "racial status" of South Africa is quite an intricate one - especially if you consider that it's no longer just "black against white" when it comes to conflict. I'm sure no two South Africans would give the same answer if you asked them what the racial situation is here. But for the most - it's just another country. The majority of people live side by side with all shapes, sizes and colors, just trying to make a living and a good life for themselves. As with America you have the whole spectrum of political views - from the far right, right through to the far left. And every shade of grey in-between. It cannot be described or defined. It has to be experienced.

Originally posted by borntowatch
Mandelas death would leave a power vacuum in SA and its tribal communities would fight for power.

For mine he is dead and they dont want to tell any one..

I agree with you. Many Black South Africans who have not seen their living standards increase in the last ten years are going to feel very angry and this has the potential to violently destablise the country.

reply to post by deessell


That's an insane prediction right there.

Mandela is not currently a power player in the country's politics.

I hope he is at peace and not suffering in any case. People can sometimes get pretty crazy after a death, especially in the case of someone who has made such an impact on others. I hope that the nation can stand together and celebrate his life while mourning his death. No more fighting or genocide... this world needs to come together to make it out on the other end!

Many people believe he died in prison way back when. An interesting read if nothing else.... Mandela Effect

I'd be surprised if this is true, given we're now five days on and no word.

That said, I think it likely that when he does pass it might not be announced immediately. Whilst Mandela is not a political power in SA, he's a hugely important figure and symbolic of the struggle - it would be perfectly understandable if they wanted to 'stage manage' the process a little.

I think the 'night of the long knives' theory is unlikely to happen, but I wouldn't be surprised if there was some incidents of that nature - as bad as lingering resentment over apartheid is, it's also true to say that the ANC have never been shy of allowing the perception that the white Afrikaan population are at fault for contemporary problems - especially if they disguise poor judgement on their part.

Originally posted by VaterOrlaag
reply to post by deessell

 

That's an insane prediction right there.

Mandela is not currently a power player in the country's politics.

No, but he has Legendary status in that Country. That enough is to get people up in arms. Not to mention that he wasn't too fond of white people either.