Ken Ham’s Creation “Museum” in Financial Trouble

In news that will surely put a smile on most rational peoples face, the Creation 'Museum' has had falling attendances over the past few years. In it's desperation the 'museum' has introduced a new attraction featuring dragons and ziplines (???) in an effort to draw in folks tired of the old Dino-rider displays. Due to the fact there's been no new scientific discoveries in the Intelligent Design world, they don't really have much to go on........

Interestingly, the reason for the slowing traffic seems to be creationism itself, since the main exhibit has literally not changed in 5 years. Most museums’ exhibits change as new discoveries are made, as artifacts travel from other museums to visit, or as adjustments in scientific thinking are made.

Would you like to know more?

reply to post by Prezbo369


Oh no, what a shame! How will the children of Kentucky learn about Creationism in a fun, interactive "learning" environment?

Dinosaurs in the Garden of Eden exhibit, why? From the video: "People have a fascination with dinosaurs." Oh, fair enough.

They're hoping that people not interested in museums will be interested in their new zip line. Yeah, I wouldn't worry about their financial situation. Zip lines are pretty cool

Originally posted by Prezbo369
there's been no new scientific discoveries in the Intelligent Design world

Sounds like a job for Ray Comfort.

I almost feel bad for the guys behind this one. You just know by reading it, agree or not, they put real heart and soul into making it. They're just... well... Kinda clueless. Talk about a one trick pony and repeat visitors obviously aren't a major part of the business plan. lol....... Problem # 1 I'd say.

Even if I believed in creation 100% (which I actually think it's a mix of creation and evolution handling matters from there), why go a second time? Okay, so I came...I saw....and get the story...and it's a few hours and $30 I'll never get back when reading a book would have done the same without the gas wasted. I doubt an "Evolution Museum" would do any better, all things being considered.

Perhaps if he located it in a place like Northern Arkansas/Southern Missouri? At least we have the big world Bible colleges and schools in this area. Students would supply SOME new traffic, if only for the one shot "You gotta see it to believe someone built it" side show aspect. I wonder how much they lost on all that?

It should go the way of the dinosaur. That would be irony for ya.

Yeah, this is no surprise. The longer it stays open, the more people actually learn about real science and realize how nonsensical that is. They promote stuff that's made up on the spot as fact and put it in a museum to exploit dumb people for money. They shouldn't even be allowed to call it a museum. There is nothing scientific about it, just some fantasy world where humans and dinosaurs are living together in peace as vegetarians. What a joke. Yeah T-rex used to eat leaves and broccoli. Totally explains the teeth. These scammers deserve to be bankrupt. They know full well they are just exploiting religious fundies who are gullible and will believe anything that suggests their 100% literal view of the bible.

I almost feel bad for the guys behind this one. You just know by reading it, agree or not, they put real heart and soul into making it. They're just... well... Kinda clueless. Talk about a one trick pony and repeat visitors obviously aren't a major part of the business plan. lol....... Problem # 1 I'd say.

Don't fool yourself into thinking they didn't realize they were wrong. They know they are exploiting dumb people for profit and to increase membership to their religion. It's the American Dream. If people are stupid enough to pay money for this, then they are to blame. The more I look at creationist arguments, the more I realize how purposely false they are. Anybody who knows anything about science should be appalled by that, including creationists. If you want to believe in the bible and god, sure go for it, just don't go around telling people that established science is wrong and promote all kinds of demonstrably false arguments. I firmly believe the creationist agenda is simply to make them look bad.

I doubt an "Evolution Museum" would do any better, all things being considered.

There are hundreds of evolution museums. Go to any museum in the country and they will have models and fossils of ancient life (that REALLY existed) not some fantasy world. They have been around for decades unlike this wannabe museum based on a complete farce.

reply to post by Barcs


I understand you hold a deep, hard and boundless passion of disgust if not hate for all things religious. Your post is one of the clearest I've seen on ATS to indicate that in quite some time...and that is really saying something recently.

I don't personally think these people were particularly bright myself, but I have no right to hope they have bad future luck or come into outright ruin. I think people who set up museums for toy trains or balls of yarn are pretty far out there too. I don't hope they fail or wish ruin upon them, either way. I hope they find others of like mind and interest to make their own personal little American Dream work with whatever museum they make. I may think it's highly unlikely to happen that way? It doesn't mean I hope for it though.

In listening to the vicious vicious feelings against religion and especially anything of a Christian nature like this? It's a wonder anyone questions which side the hate flows from. It's damn sure not religion pumping the hate on this one. Just a few people looking to have a little corner of their idea of a cool thing. Their failure is a shame...not a joy.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by Barcs

 

I understand you hold a deep, hard and boundless passion of disgust if not hate for all things religious. Your post is one of the clearest I've seen on ATS to indicate that in quite some time...and that is really saying something recently.

I don't personally think these people were particularly bright myself, but I have no right to hope they have bad future luck or come into outright ruin. I think people who set up museums for toy trains or balls of yarn are pretty far out there too. I don't hope they fail or wish ruin upon them, either way. I hope they find others of like mind and interest to make their own personal little American Dream work with whatever museum they make. I may think it's highly unlikely to happen that way? It doesn't mean I hope for it though.

In listening to the vicious vicious feelings against religion and especially anything of a Christian nature like this? It's a wonder anyone questions which side the hate flows from. It's damn sure not religion pumping the hate on this one. Just a few people looking to have a little corner of their idea of a cool thing. Their failure is a shame...not a joy.

Star for such a well reasoned and objective post.





I'm still going to the going out of business sale, though. It would be cool to buy some dinosaur and dragon statues to put in the back yard.

reply to post by NavyDoc


Drop me an invite. I want a T-Rex or Velociraptor for Halloween displays at the house. Oh..talk about putting the trick into the treat for neighborhood kids.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by NavyDoc

 

Drop me an invite. I want a T-Rex or Velociraptor for Halloween displays at the house. Oh..talk about putting the trick into the treat for neighborhood kids.

One last aside...when I was in flight school, we often did flights over rural Florida panhandle. T-34's are very fun and forgiving aircraft. Anyway, there was this one farmer who had life size dinosaur models in his fields and you could see them from the air. I distinctly remember this big purple/bluish brontosaur type that he posed as if it were drinking out of his pond.

It's not just this one. Museums of all types (even science museums) are shutting down across the country at an alarming rate.

Our local cowboy museum is struggling right now. During the last summer, I wanted to take my son to a WWII museum up in the city for a project for a history class I was taking- BOTH had shut down and we couldn't go.

The folk museum by fest friend and I wanted to go see up north this spring was also closed. There just isn't a big push anymore among youth for the arts, science, and history. Even the symphony and our art districts had to scale back.

Museums are faltering across the country- and maybe in other areas, too. But I guess it can all point and laugh at the creation museum, right?

Personally, I'd like to see it. lol

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


How was my post viscous when I was actually DEFENDING rational Christians who don't buy into this rubbish? How did it express a deep hatred for all things religion? Funny how people always make that assumption when you call a cat a cat and a dog a dog. I was only referring to the fundamentalists that support this ludicrous idea, which is a small minority amongst Christians and is steadily declining. The people made their museum based on complete lies, and since many of the fundies home school their children out of fear of science conflicting with their literal biblical view, they never realize how absurd that idea is. I don't like it when people try to sell lies to the people for profit. No Christian willingly does that, it goes against everything Jesus taught. Deceptive promotion only makes creationists look bad. No loving benevolent god would encourage people to spread lies to promote him. The majority of creationists don't even support this view, so don't accuse me of insulting all religions or whatever else. I'm speaking of facts here, I'm not attacking their beliefs. The problem is their literal interpretation of ancient texts and the leaders in their community that preach negative things about science along with all the deceptive people like Kent Hovind out there that purposely lie to sell videos and books to gullible people. I'm not saying anything you don't already know.

reply to post by Prezbo369


Proper headline should be something like - "Ill-conceived money-making scheme fails to make money".

This is what happens when any commercial enterprise is not deemed worthy of interest by the people. So many seem to have a clueless faith in "build it and they will come". It's rubbish, no audience means no business.

Not that I really care much about kids there being brainwashed, but I'm sure educators in the region will be glad to see this go, probably more so they don't have to try twice as hard to undo the BS and educate these kids properly.

Originally posted by Barcs

How was my post viscous when I was actually DEFENDING rational Christians who don't buy into this rubbish? How did it express a deep hatred for all things religion? Funny how people always make that assumption when you call a cat a cat and a dog a dog. I was only referring to the fundamentalists that support this ludicrous idea, which is a small minority amongst Christians and is steadily declining.

Well......

*Previous Post*
These scammers deserve to be bankrupt. They know full well they are just exploiting religious fundies who are gullible and will believe anything that suggests their 100% literal view of the bible.

^^^ That could be part of what I keyed on to see it as just a hair toward the religious bash side of the marker. I mean, I talk often about Jihadi and Islamic extremists...but for a very long time now, I've also been very careful that "Radical" or "Extremist" is part of it. Why? If I don't clarify...mistakes like this happen ..and people make a very natural connection that your definition and their definition of fundamentalist are fundamentally different.

The people made their museum based on complete lies, and since many of the fundies home school their children out of fear of science conflicting with their literal biblical view, they never realize how absurd that idea is. I don't like it when people try to sell lies to the people for profit. No Christian willingly does that, it goes against everything Jesus taught.

Well, I don't like liars and hate those who hide within religion to peddle it as well. People claiming scumbag killers get 72 virgins ..for instance.. are just as despicable as Christian sects who claim their way is the ONLY way and anyone else is going to hell. Even fellow Christians. Funny thing tho..... People have the right to worship a kumquat in this nation, if that floats their boat. They can even make a museum if they wish. "Museum of the Mighty Kumquat from Seed to Savior". Religious freedom and all.... Unless I belong to their Faith and know their beliefs...I have no right to call their BELIEF SYSTEM ONE OF LIES and deception, do I?

Deceptive promotion only makes creationists look bad. No loving benevolent god would encourage people to spread lies to promote him. The majority of creationists don't even support this view, so don't accuse me of insulting all religions or whatever else.

Unless you own a time machine ..... The claim they are lying is as invalid as saying science is lying with a 4 billion year old age of Earth or the Bible itself is lying with 3,000 years or 6,000 years from Creation (I've heard Believers say both with no apparent sense of problem to it)

I'm speaking of facts here, I'm not attacking their beliefs.

Of course you are attacking their beliefs.

* Previous Post*
If people are stupid enough to pay money for this, then they are to blame. The more I look at creationist arguments, the more I realize how purposely false they are. Anybody who knows anything about science should be appalled by that, including creationists. If you want to believe in the bible and god, sure go for it, just don't go around telling people that established science is wrong and promote all kinds of demonstrably false arguments.

What else would you call that? Either you think they have no belief, in which case they'd be guilty of crimes of fraud and deceptive practices ....at least, or you think their beliefs are "purposely false" and "demonstrably false". Either way, it's taking these folks and their little museum and making them sound like the heart of all problems with conflicted religious Faith in the nation and society today.

Live and Let Live works too..... Really.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I understand you hold a deep, hard and boundless passion of disgust if not hate for all things religious.

If you understand that, you didn't learn it from the post quoted. It is clear that what Barcs hates is creationism. Creationism is not religion. It is a political movement and, yes, a thoroughly hateful one.

You say you believe in a mix of creation and evolution. Do you mean that you believe the first replicator(s) were created and evolution proceeded unassisted from that point onward? That's highly believable, but it reduces the role of the Creator to that of a very advanced organic chemist carrying out an (apparently successful) experiment. Or do you believe that the process of evolution still occasionally gets a bit of a jog from the Almighty, from time to time? There's no way to disprove this, but we see no evidence of such intervention, and there is absolutely no scientific necessity to argue that it exists; evolution works fine without it.

What I'm trying to show here is that if you believe in a mix of evolution and creation then you're seeing the whole question as one of belief. That puts you on the creationist side of the fence whether you sympathise with their programme or not. Evolution is not a faith; no-one has to believe in it. Evolution is a fact, and natural selection is a scientific explanation for it, based on certain evidence. You either accept or reject the explanation, based on the quality of the evidence and arguments, and there's an end to it.

There is no scientific evidence or rational argument that supports a mix of creation and evolution. If that is what you believe, there can be only one reason why: you want to keep believing in God. It's your right to believe whatever you like, of course, but I think you need to be clear about your reasons.

It's damn sure not religion pumping the hate on this one.

I suppose the perception depends on one's viewpoint. I can produce documentary evidence to show that religious conservatives were attacking the concept of evolution well before Darwin published The Origin of Species. But who started it doesn't really matter; what matters is that creationism as a political movement is losing ground in America, while scientific rationalism is gaining it.

For that, I think we can all breathe a little prayer of thanks.

Originally posted by Prezbo369
in an effort to draw in folks tired of the old Dino-rider displays. Due to the fact there's been no new scientific discoveries in the Intelligent Design world, they don't really have much to go on........

Don't conflate Intelligent Design with Creationism. The jury's still out on ID while the data is just starting to flow in from various disciplines and yes there's lots of new scientific discovery in the area of ID, from DNA to the mass of the Higgs Boson.

reply to post by Astyanax


Okay, lets be simple and realistic about this. Creationism cannot be proven in the sense the Religions take it to be. However, nor can Evolution be proven that way. Oh, Evolution is real alright and perhaps there are a bunch of Christians around who really don't think lifeforms are capable or do change to environmental changes and adapt as necessary over time. I haven't personally met any that don't recognize the science of evolution was a function of life, but I don't know the beliefs of all Christians either. There's over a billion of' 'em with scores of sects..

Now, Evolution as an explanation of creation itself and where life itself comes from? That would be a WHOLE different thing in how it's presented and reacted to. It's also something that happened billions of years ago as far as our best 'scientific wild guesses' go on current methods. Our whole species could have been popped from an Alien test tube by a race so advanced, their existence and God are indistinguishable for all our perception matters. Who knows?

I don't... and no one but the fictional Q in Star Trek or someone with a time machine can know who or what was the mechanism way back....and that's what the main fight seems about. Faith vs. None. That comes in all flavors too. All sorts.

The first few posts in this thread illustrate perfectly the sheer hatred some people have for others who don't believe the same as they do. Absolutely abhorrent behavior by some of ATS'ers.

P.S.
I'm not a "creationist" like in the OP.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Okay, lets be simple and realistic about this.

Yes, let's. A good place to start would be for you to explain whether you believe God created the first replicators and then left it to life to continue to evolve automatically, or whether you believe He not only created the first living things but has been actively helping evolution along, either occasionally or continuously, ever since.

Once you have answered that question, a lot of the confusion evident in your reply to me can be cleared away.

reply to post by Astyanax


Ridicule is a debating tactic now? I hope people stop asking where the very clear sense of dislike bordering on hate comes from regarding religion. We can't even have a reasonable debate about it without getting to throwing barbs like that.

You asked though... So, no, I don't think Our Creator used fantasy creations from a Hollywood produced television series to seed life on this planet, out of the billions of planets around us. That would be absurd to even bring up, huh?

My personal belief is that it's been a combination of intelligent design coupled with life's adaptation to itself, each other and the changing world over these billions of years. No one can know though and absolutely not well enough to make it a point to ridicule each other over though.

Wrabbit,

Are you suggesting that if this museum were in Arkansas that University students would flock to the exhibit?
That is insulting.


As far as the "museum" goes, I wonder if they prayed to God to help them keep it open...if so, it appears he ain't listening.