"Found to be unverifiable and, indeed, likely untrue." Is this the new grounds for Hoaxing threads

This is a question for MODs and Super MODs...

This world is changing fast, and not so much for the good. ATS is one of the only places where some really weird characters can share their story, they life and experiences. From Sleeper to Initiate people have come to THIS CONSPIRACY SITE, that just so happens to have their own secret society forum, to tell their story to a world that is for some reason coming to some kind point where it's time to plow the whistle.

Every single one of these People have always faced rampent and unjustifiable opposition but the same group of members and even some MODs in the past. People telling their story have faced this opposition valiantly and in a far more courteous and respectful manner than their opponents. I always saw this as an unavoidable side-effect of trying to get information out to a bunch of people who might just be better off left to the wolves, but unfortunately I am one left to the wolves as well so i really enjoy reading these window of opportunity and information regarding esoteric threads.

But now ATS is not only letting board members trash people's threads but now ATS is acting like my mommy by, and I quote "The thread will remain closed to avoid any further attempts to dupe the ATS community." under what grounds do you ask? well lets see with another quote..."Staff has reviewed this thread and determined that it should be moved to the Hoax Forum. This designation is not as a result of the the thread topic itself and makes no distinction as to the validity of the spiritual or esoteric elements discussed, only that personal representations were made that ATS found to be unverifiable and, indeed, likely untrue."

I mean COME ON NOW!!!!!

Link to thread

That my friends is what I call BOGUS!

I mean if ATS is going to act like my mother and try to protect me from the boogie man at the very least LIE TO ME and don't just tell me something is a HOAX because you have no proof that it is but your calling it a HOAX anyway.

That is Just IMHO disgraceful and unprofessional conduct. Not only do you let this person get chewed up and let his integrity get attacked while only MODing in when he tries to politely defend himself but you Shut down his thread and then call him a HOAX just because you "THINK" what he is saying is "UNLIKELY TRUE" and you want to protect your children from getting duped. I am a 30 year old grown up, please mommy let me go, cut the umbilical cord and let me make up my own mind if you don't have any proof to the contrary...PLEASE!

Or at the very least if ATS is not going to let people share helpful and kind advice and information about the esoteric word, at the very least call the removal of these threads fr what it is......being scared of the world that is coming, a world where a CONSPIRACY SITE like ATS must tell people who possibly hold and can tell the TRUTH about a subject that they are not welcome here.....

I think that sad day has all ready come to ATS but please get the wording right.

So my question to ATS, MODs and Super MODs and my fellow truth seeking members on ATS is.....

Are these the new grounds for HOAXing a thread? Is anyone who makes a thread about any subject at risk for being called a HOAX just because ATS business thinks it needs to be even is there is absolutely no proof to it being a HOAX?

If so, is this what the motto Deny Ignorance means? To deny our own ignorance?

I only ask these question because I am worried about ATS and what to hear the thoughts of everyone involved.

The Rat.

it would be so funny if the Mods put this in the HOAX forum

I actually posted a ,"oh come,how is this thread still alive" ,post on there ,and it was removed for being off topic.
If it takes some people 42 pages worth of posting to figure out its a hoax ,well ...its a learning curve issues I guess .

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin



Yeah what a laugh...

I'm actually counting down, while holding my breath.

But do you OSOTC, have an opinion besides that about these questions?

Do you view the issues i have brought to attention as anything other than a joke?

What do you think about Hoaxing threads just because they want to?

The Rat.

Originally posted by PtolemyII
I actually posted a ,"oh come,how is this thread still alive" ,post on there ,and it was removed for being off topic.
If it takes some people 42 pages worth of posting to figure out its a hoax ,well ...its a learning curve issues I guess .

OK so you think that talking about esoteric information should be immediately called a Hoax?

Is that what your saying.....interesting if so.

The Rat.

reply to post by TucoTheRat


I dont think enough threads get HOAXed on ATS i didnt have any input on that thread so i cant really comment on it

but created a rant like this is not going to make any difference all your going to do is have this either trashed or moved to the Rant forum

reply to post by TucoTheRat


So you are ok with someone lying to you about who they are & how they came to the information they are sharing?

If that happened in any other category on ATS members would be screaming disinformation & psyop. Why does the esoteric crowd get a pass?

reply to post by TucoTheRat


Not at all,but anyone who has spent time on forums such as this one ,can usually spot one after the first ten or so pages of posts .
I think my removed comment was at about page 35 or so .....as I found it hard to believe anyone was still buying into the ops statements .
Call me cynical ....I wear it proudly

The terms and conditions are clear regarding hoaxing our community. when we spot it, we move the thread accordingly. I'm not sure why this is unclear but, perhaps, a quick read thru the hoax forum will help you understand some of the reasons why we don't allow our members to be conned by hoaxers.

Originally posted by OtherSideOfTheCoin
reply to post by TucoTheRat

 

I dont think enough threads get HOAXed on ATS i didnt have any input on that thread so i cant really comment on it

but created a rant like this is not going to make any difference all your going to do is have this either trashed or moved to the Rant forum

Jesus Christopher Walken! Really?

I think even if people are liars, they deserve the same respect we rant about on ATS when it comes to innocent until proven guilty.

The guys thread was doing absolutely no harm to anyone and many members with the exception of the same old group of guys and gals were enjoying t and asking some great questions.

The guy said he was of the right hand path brotherhood a hidden esoteric order, talking about life, love and light. I mean are there not other things to Hoax that may carry a bit more proof toward being actually a HOAX bin and a ban?

I just don't understand what ATS is anymore? What can a person post about these days? Clips from mainstream news? Can we post about anything with out linking MSNBC, FOX, RP and the such anymore?

Are we to be robots, judgmental Robots, now?

How do you source being a right hand path? Why would you need too?

For many words speak louder than a link to some news site, for others not so, but why the banning and the Hoaxing? Over nothing...why?

That s the question here. the question I am making.

The Rat.

Originally posted by TucoTheRat
OK so you think that talking about esoteric information should be immediately called a Hoax?

Well, that's not even what was stated:

This designation is not as a result of the the thread topic itself and makes no distinction as to the validity of the spiritual or esoteric elements discussed,

Originally posted by Crakeur
The terms and conditions are clear regarding hoaxing our community. when we spot it, we move the thread accordingly. I'm not sure why this is unclear but, perhaps, a quick read thru the hoax forum will help you understand some of the reasons why we don't allow our members to be conned by hoaxers.

I have read the Hoax stuff, I have read it.

But no where was a reason given as to why this persons thread was hoaxed, no where.

Can you, please, show me where anyone of your MODs or Super MODs spotted anything that would warrant that thread to go to the Hoax and Ban?

This designation is not as a result of the the thread topic itself and makes no distinction as to the validity of the spiritual or esoteric elements discussed

I mean am I stupid? you tell me Crakeur, am i to stupid to see why this was banned according to your rules?

only that personal representations were made that ATS found to be unverifiable and, indeed, likely untrue.

What does that mean other than you can't tell if he is a Hoaxer so your going to call him one anyway!!!

Tell me Crakeur am I to stupid to see this spot ATS has spotted. Where is the spot you spotted, where?

WHERE IS IT?

The Rat.

Originally posted by kosmicjack

Originally posted by TucoTheRat
OK so you think that talking about esoteric information should be immediately called a Hoax?

Well, that's not even what was stated:

Ok then what was stated?

Because obviously my opinion is faulty according to you, so please Kosmicjack what did that poster state?

Educate me.

The Rat.

Here's the issue. The poster of that thread made some claims that can't be verified and no evidence was given to back them up. Hence the hoax labeling.

Do you know where highly speculative and unverifiable stories go? The grey area. My understanding is if you don't place your story in that section it will be labeled a hoax unless you have some evidence to back up whatever claims you are making.

As you can see by visiting the grey area there are plenty of threads in there that are not closed.

So, as I see it, the letter and spirit of the T&C's, which haven't changed much in the years I've been here, were followed by the mods. So there really is no reason to gripe. The guy could probably make a new thread in the grey area or petition to get it moved there.


ETA: Nevermind, the guy has been banned. I can see why, from the last few pages of that thread. What a derailed, delusional pile that became. Now I'm really confused why you want that reopened lol.

I just tonight saw the hoax designation.

I quickly lost interest in that thread. I am not surprised to see it labeled as a hoax. I read a few of the last posts and obviously the participants got out of hand.

Originally posted by optimus primal
Here's the issue. The poster of that thread made some claims that can't be verified and no evidence was given to back them up. Hence the hoax labeling.

Do you know where highly speculative and unverifiable stories go? The grey area. My understanding is if you don't place your story in that section it will be labeled a hoax unless you have some evidence to back up whatever claims you are making.

As you can see by visiting the grey area there are plenty of threads in there that are not closed.

So, as I see it, the letter and spirit of the T&C's, which haven't changed much in the years I've been here, were followed by the mods. So there really is no reason to gripe. The guy could probably make a new thread in the grey area or petition to get it moved there.

Why not move the thread to the grey area right off the bat?

I've been on ATS for a long time friend, I have lurked and seen the progression of ATS go from a conspiracy site where you can post your mind and experiences to......"ok this needs to go in the grey area" to out right banning and hoaxing. And as the months go by less people are speaking their mind and just regurgitating news sources.

There are there conspiracies in the world beyond 9/11 and what ever the news comes up with but now anyone who brings up some information better know where to post it or get hoaxed and banned instead of politely being moved to the correct forum.

Is this what ATS is now?

Give me some answers to the questions i asked. Can this site at least do that?

The Rat.

Originally posted by Crakeur
The terms and conditions are clear regarding hoaxing our community. when we spot it, we move the thread accordingly. I'm not sure why this is unclear but, perhaps, a quick read thru the hoax forum will help you understand some of the reasons why we don't allow our members to be conned by hoaxers.

You feel that without your guidance they would be lost? Members are not able to decide on their own?

If something incorrect is posted on purpose with the intent to deceive, and it has been proven incorrect, placement in the HOAX forum is jusified.

If you can't prove that, you have no right to call it a HOAX.

HOAX Dedicated forum for ATS threads that have been PROVEN to be hoaxes, frauds, misrepresentations, part of deceptive schemes, or grossly errant theories/speculations on a variety of topics. Topics in this forum will range from those that have proven to be an actual hoax to those where a significant majority of ATS members believe the subject matter to be based on fraudulent material.

Staff has reviewed this thread and determined that it should be moved to the Hoax Forum. This designation is not as a result of the the thread topic itself and makes no distinction as to the validity of the spiritual or esoteric elements discussed, only that personal representations were made that ATS found to be UNVERIFIABLE and indeed, LIKELY UNTRUE The thread will remain closed to avoid any further attempts to dupe the ATS community.

So the criteria went from PROVEN TO BE HOAXES, to UNVERIFIABLE and LIKELY UNTRUE.

I missed this part,

topics in this forum will range from those that have proven to be an actual hoax to those where a significant majority of ATS members believe the subject matter to be based on fraudulent material.

Mob rule?

reply to post by TucoTheRat


It's pretty clear why the guy was banned, though we're not supposed to really discuss that.

He made claims about who he is, and why everyone should believe him. Despite repeated requests for proof of such he ignored them. That's a hoax. plain and simple. I'm not a mod, so I'm not really going to debate you on the subject as I was uninvolved in the process the mods use to close a thread and ban a member. However, I will say it was pretty clear to me, a mere member why what happened, happened.

I suppose there is a middle ground. A lot of the "free energy" stories might turn out to have some kind of substance to them (although you'd never guess due to the success rate). So it might be strictly inaccurate to label them as hoaxes.

Maybe there is a way to designate them as "unverifiable and likely untrue, but if you still choose to believe it... caveat emptor!"

Originally posted by PtolemyII
I actually posted a ,"oh come,how is this thread still alive" ,post on there ,and it was removed for being off topic.
If it takes some people 42 pages worth of posting to figure out its a hoax ,well ...its a learning curve issues I guess .

There was no proof of hoax. it was on a subject that is not hoaxable. It is sharing his metaphysics, and for some of it I agreed, but not with the huge mystery school rule book.

Its like hoaxing an opinion.

And the funny thing is, the amount who jumped on him, for speaking up out of the box.

Though I didn't like some of his elitist comments and posted, nonetheless, it was his perogative to have different opinions.

How did they hoax an outlook on reality?