Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind revelations of NSA surveillance

Originally posted by IAmbivalenceI
nor can I believe that a high school drop out has a top security clearance.

I've been seeing this line parroted in the media over and over, and now by you. Well let me tell you something mister... I don't have a college degree nor was I fortunate enough to receive a full elementary education, yet I've discovered mathematical concepts that were hitherto unknown or forgotten. I also taught myself programming, 3d modeling, have done CAD and game design. I'm also earning more than the average person my age.

So you can take that "highschool dropout" comment and shove it in a black hole.

Cool story bro, but you're out of touch with humanity. Snowden is a hero to the people who's constitutional rights are being infringed upon by clandestine elements within our government. Upholding secrecy to some alphabet agency ain't squat compared to upholding the constitution.

reply to post by circlemaker

I agree, ther's no reason a high school drop out can't be a computer whiz.

In other news, Hong Kong did hold a rally today -

Several hundred demonstrators took to Hong Kong's streets in the rain Saturday voicing support for Snowden a week after the 29-year-old computer technician, who is believed to be hiding out somewhere in the city, revealed himself as the source of leaked documents.

Organizers claimed an overall turnout of 900 protesters; police said the demonstration had a peak turnout of 300 -- a relatively small showing compared to major protests in Hong Kong, which have attracted hundreds of thousands of people. Grundy said plans for the protest only began on Monday, and that he would be pleased if 1,000 people turned out in the end.

Not a huge turnout, but better than nothing being it was only conceived on Monday and was raining. I didn't hear anything about it on the MSM - surprised?

www.cnn.com...

Breaking NEWS

Revealed: how the UK spied on its G20 allies at London summits

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by ShesSoDizzy


I grew up in a weird family where the rule was comprehending that we could potentially be under surveillance at any time (weird, I know). I still have a corded landline because of that rearing, lol. Basically, the default position in the family was (is), if something needed to be said that was truly critical, it was best said quietly out in the yard. Weird, I know but the basic premise behind it was, if you can't trust technology in uttering your secrets, then don't. Whereas we developed that attitude decades ago, I think it's a pretty natural response. It's just really sad because it allows for people to think that others don't care based on internet interactions. I personally don't think that there is much risk of saying that one doesn't like the surveillance because it's plainly obvious, based on the articles released post-revelation, that they knew that a lot of people were not going to like it. Saying nothing on the matter does more harm than good in my book and that's coming from somebody who grew up in a paranoid family.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
I still have a corded landline because of that rearing,

It would take me all of about 30 seconds to intercept your corded landline assuming I had physical access to the outside of your house. It would take me a few minutes to tap your corded landline from different locations if I worked for the phone company and that has nothing to do with PRISM.

The bit about going out into the yard is still the best way to really avoid detection. If you want to go off the grid then go off the grid 100% and remove any possibilities of technology being exploited.

reply to post by opethPA


Yeah, I know. The fact that I still have one is just a funny tribute to the way I was raised. Technically, even going into one's yard isn't necessarily going to completely remove the possibility of surveillance since DARPA invented minidrones that look like hummingbirds, lol. I just think that most of us wouldn't warrant hummingbird surveillance. Really, if someone really wanted to avoid it, probably a cabin in the Yukon would be in order.

I just had a thought whilst drinking a wine in the shower last night after watching a show called "mock the press" where one of the "celebrity" guests was saying that old line "I don't care if they can see everything I'm doing I have nothing to hide." which seems to be the mentality that everyone is leaning towards. What if they also use this program to stop the spreading of ideas on the internet, it seems like they already control the press somehow by manipulating the masses and perhaps this is another way they are doing it. I remember feeling when the whole Fukushima thing happened I was posting a few things about it on facebook but they weren't showing up on peoples news feeds and no one here in australia was reporting on it after 3 days. I dunno just subtle things in the mainstream media and on the internet to try and dull and underemphasise issues that we should really be caring about. Or maybe the majority of people don't care and they just want to block it out.

Originally posted by zippy101
I just had a thought whilst drinking a wine in the shower last night...

Wine in the shower? How do you stop it from getting diluted? Do you use a shower cap, or what?

Just curious.

Anyway another thought crossed my mind. If I were about to whistle blow on some government corruption, I wouldn't want them to know in advance. Otherwise, what's the betting that I'd be suicided the night before I was going to release the news?

NSA inspector general report on email and internet data collection under Stellar Wind – full document

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by xavi1000



Thanks for that link, xavi1000. Been reading it and it's very interesting with page 30+ being probably the most enlightening. The section on the involvement with private sector companies was very interesting in who was signing the request letters. In 2004, things were amended and, for the first time, the authorization of the requests were approved by the Counsel to Bush. I'm presuming this would've been the Office of Legal Counsel with Jack Goldsmith at the helm at the time?

More on Goldsmith: en.wikipedia.org...

In 2006, these request letters were being signed by the Attorney General Alberto Gonzales. Gonzales had been previously appointed to the position of Secretary of the State in Texas by Bush when he was governor. His name should ring a bell because he's also the one that basically said that torture was legal, too. Gonazales eventually got ousted in 2007. Relating it back to the Stellar Wind document, 2007 is also when that program was slated to end but it is also when PRISM began. Considering that the request letters seemed to be renewed on an annual basis and the immediately previous ones being signed by the Attorney General, it's likely that that would have been a possible expectation. Interestingly enough, the first individual that was to take the position of AG post-Gonzales was Paul Clement. He was appointed as acting AG in August of 2007 and took office at 12:01 am on 9/17/2007 and resigned 24 hours later, I recollect being seriously puzzled by that back in 2007 because it was so weird. Clement actually argued a whole lot of cases in defense of Bush's policies in the "War on Terror" previously. He was replaced by Keisler and then, eventually Michael Mukasey from this memo (pg. 13): www.guardian.co.uk...

If you note the signatures at the bottom of the memo, you'll see that Gates signed it on 10/19/07. Mukasey's name, however, was not the name originally typed on the memo (note the type font difference and issues with ink sinking--"white out" effects) and the date is 1?/3/08. Not 2007 when PRISM was launched. I just found that whole sequence of events curious and would love to know whose name was originally there.

Originally posted by xavi1000
NSA inspector general report on email and internet data collection under Stellar Wind – full document

www.guardian.co.uk...

And the former NSA code breaker turned whistleblower who wrote the program is interviewed in the video below. He wrote it and it was used initially to target foreigners. After 9/11 Bush ordered its use on ALL American citizens and he quit because he believed is job was to protect the constitution ahead of the administration. He puts it in context in the video. I highly suggest you watch it to get a better understanding.

New second video interview with Snowden

www.guardian.co.uk...

reply to post by xavi1000


Thanks Xav, Watching it is very sad, as he does come across as a very decent person, he is a little like a David against Goliath without a trusty slingshot to back him up.

American citizenry is not supporting him enough.

Edit to ADD: I'd say he has reached a safe harbour as they released this now. Keeping an eye on news

reply to post by zazzafrazz

Some sites earlier were reporting he made it to Venezuela, but I haven't seen any confirmation. Hope he's safe.

I hope Snowden’s revelations will spark a movement to rescue our democracy, but he could not be part of that movement had he stayed here. There is zero chance that he would be allowed out on bail if he returned now and close to no chance that, had he not left the country, he would have been granted bail. Instead, he would be in a prison cell like Bradley Manning, incommunicado.

He would almost certainly be confined in total isolation, even longer than the more than eight months Manning suffered during his three years of imprisonment before his trial began recently. The United Nations Special Rapporteur for Torture described Manning’s conditions as “cruel, inhuman and degrading.” (That realistic prospect, by itself, is grounds for most countries granting Snowden asylum, if they could withstand bullying and bribery from the United States.)

Snowden believes that he has done nothing wrong. I agree wholeheartedly. More than 40 years after my unauthorized disclosure of the Pentagon Papers, such leaks remain the lifeblood of a free press and our republic. One lesson of the Pentagon Papers and Snowden’s leaks is simple: secrecy corrupts, just as power corrupts.

Snowden made the right call when he fled the U.S.

ETA - I am not totally against secrecy (clearly and obviously....). But I wholeheartedly disagree with allowing the trampling of the Constitution, in secret or in the open. We have the right to be secure in persons, papers, and effects and NO GOVERNMENT has the right to trample those liberties without a warrant specifying what is to be searched and what is to be allegedly found.

Originally posted by ProfessorT
Edward Snowden is NOT an American hero. I sincerely hope the security services start extradition proceedings and take him back to the US where he can be placed in front of a judge to answer for his actions. The leak of the information to The Guardian was reckless and Mr Snowden should never have breached national security. PRISM is in place for the right reasons - to protect people.

I'm not an American (I'm from India, hello), but I agree with your views.

You recall hearing about "Internet 2.0"? The moment government goes blind to what fascists are doing in the internet, that's trouble, folks, that's big, big trouble, because the government is, in a sense, people organizing to defend against fascism...

That is the main reason why Snowden finds it so hard to get asylum from any country. The governments of the world are not a bunch of fools, they are the ones who stand up against corporations like Monsanto

Originally posted by noonebutme

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by noonebutme

 

Spare me your personal insults and accusations, because when it comes from the mentally challenged, it is doubly worse.

I Just joined the forum today hello. I found a neat youtube video I like posting videos.

edit on 12-8-2013 by sastl4 because: (CoverOP?)Humourous intent

An NSA Coworker Remembers The Real Edward Snowden: ‘A Genius Among Geniuses’

Before coming to NSA Hawaii, Snowden had impressed NSA officials by developing a backup system that the NSA had widely implemented in its codebreaking operations.
He also frequently reported security vulnerabilities in NSA software. Many of the bugs were never patched.
Snowden had been brought to Hawaii as a cybersecurity expert working for Dell’s services division but due to a problem with the contract was reassigned to become an administrator for the Microsoft intranet management system known as Sharepoint. Impressed with his technical abilities, Snowden’s managers decided that he was the most qualified candidate to build a new web front-end for one of its projects, despite his contractor status. As his coworker tells it, he was given full administrator privileges, with virtually unlimited access to NSA data. “Big mistake in hindsight,” says Snowden’s former colleague. “But if you had a guy who could do things nobody else could, and the only problem was that his badge was green instead of blue, what would you do?”
As further evidence that Snowden didn’t hijack his colleagues’ accounts for his leak, the NSA staffer points to an occasion when Snowden was given a manager’s password so that he could cover for him while he was on vacation. Even then, investigators found no evidence Snowden had misused that staffer’s privileges, and the source says nothing he could have uniquely accessed from the account has shown up in news reports.
Snowden’s superiors were so impressed with his skills that he was at one point offered a position on the elite team of NSA hackers known as Tailored Access Operations. He unexpectedly turned it down and instead joined Booz Allen to work at NSA’s Threat Operation Center.
Another hint of his whistleblower conscience, aside from the telltale hoodie: Snowden kept a copy of the constitution on his desk to cite when arguing against NSA activities he thought might violate it.
The source tells me Snowden also once nearly lost his job standing up for a coworker who was being disciplined by a superior.
Snowden often left small, gifts anonymously at colleagues’ desks.
He frequently walked NSA’s halls carrying a Rubik’s cube–the same object he held to identify himself on a Hong Kong street to the journalists who first met with him to publish his leaks.
Snowden’s former colleague says that he or she has slowly come to understand Snowden’s decision to leak the NSA’s files. “I was shocked and betrayed when I first learned the news, but as more time passes I’m inclined to believe he really is trying to do the right thing and it’s not out of character for him. I don’t agree with his methods, but I understand why he did it,” he or she says. “I won’t call him a hero, but he’s sure as hell no traitor.”

Here is an interesting conversation on Zen Gardner site regarding Snowdon and Greenwald.

www.zengardner.com...

And some interesting information here.

www.democraticunderground.com...

I tend to think the people are being played again!