Public Atheist Monument Across from 10 Commandments

Dueling monuments will soon be a sight to see in a small courtyard in front of a courthouse in Bradford County in Starke, Florida. Across from a six ton, ten year old display of the 10 Commandments, an atheist group will be erecting a smaller, but significant, 1,500 pound granite monument of their own.

American Atheists sued Bradford County last July, saying the Christian monument in front of the county courthouse was a public endorsement of religion. In response, the county asked Community Men's Fellowship, the organization that sponsored the display, to take it down. But the fellowship replied by saying it had "prayerfully considered" the request and would not comply. The county and American Atheists went to a court-ordered mediation in March and settled upon the atheists getting their own monument.

www.huffingtonpost.com...=2518512



The bench like monument will feature quotes from secularists the likes of Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson and it will include a quote from the Treaty of Tripoli, a 1796 peace agreement between the U.S. and North African Muslims:

"The government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion" – 1796 Treaty of Tripoli

The United States of America was not founded on the Christian religion!

The structure will also have the following quotes inscribed on it.

"An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty banished, war eliminated." – American Atheists founder Madalyn Murray O'Hair

"When religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its professors are obliged to call for help of the civil power, 'tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." – Benjamin Franklin

"It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service [writing the Constitution] had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the inspiration of Heaven." – John Adams

American Atheists and ACLU are stirring up controversies over the display of the 10 Commandments in courthouses elsewhere, and in public schools in Oklahoma and Pennsylvania too.

The display will also feature Biblical quotes that supporters say correspond to the Ten Commandments, such as Deuteronomy 13:10, which says to "stone him with stones" so "that he die" in reference to people who worship other gods. (The first commandment reads, "You shall have no other gods before me.")

Personally, I think that this is very creative and a fair compromise, as it concerns public property and free speech. I would rather see dueling signs, monuments and exhibits, than see religious displays constantly under legal attack, creating even more conflict between the religious community and the secularists.

I don't support, however, the 10 Commandments or any other piece of religious indoctrination in public schools or inside public courthouses. I do support legal action to have those displays removed altogether, as they represent a governmental endorsement of religion. There is no room for a government endorsed religion in our schools, our courthouses or our legislative halls.

Right on and congratulations on your win American Atheists!

A person with scripture in their signature making a pro-atheist thread.. my head it spins.


Edit: (unless you're mocking in your sig)

I approve of this monument.

2nd line.

I don't really see too big a benefit to this one but hey why not,
as to the ten commandments well they shouldn't be posted
as representative of a country that has such a diverse religious
population, Christianity and Islam are such egotistical religions.....

Originally posted by amazing
I approve of this monument.

2nd line.

Likewise,

it shouldn't cause any more controversy than any other religious monument

Agree with amazing and others who think this is a fair way to go about getting parity.

There is no place for religion in law, schools or government, for if there is, there can be no government of and by the people and only the people, no balanced hand of a judge resting only on books of law and not on books of belief and no equality in the classroom, where achievements in academia are not obscured by the veils of superstitions.

I'd prefer to see neither 'monument' and a greater amount of good old-fashioned honesty among people..the honesty to realise we just don't know.

Agnostics are those people...it's not a belief system, it's simply a humble, honest admission to ourselves and others that we don't have enough evidence and proof to know one way or the other...yet.

10 commandments are relative to the Hebrew religion, Christianity only has two

reply to post by windword


This seems ridiculous—Sue people for putting up religious monuments but then put up your own religious monument.

The American Atheists are a religious organization seeking to put up a religious monument in honor of their "church" in a public place. They too should be sued. This group promotes and provides information on "atheism", as if their position on God was any different from any other position on God. Pure double-standards and religiosity is what I see here.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by windword

 

This seems ridiculous—Sue people for putting up religious monuments but then put up your own religious monument.

The American Atheists are a religious organization seeking to put up a religious monument in honor of their "church" in a public place. They too should be sued. This group promotes and provides information on "atheism", as if their position on God was any different from any other position on God. Pure double-standards and religiosity is what I see here.

People act like sheep and are always looking for a shepherd, unfortunately. And even if all religions slowly grew out of favour and Atheism took it's place, sadly, atheism would probably turn into something much like what we see out of the major religious organizations that dominate the globe.

Your opinion however, I have to disagree. If an Atheist organization sued for a religious monument being placed in any state building, they are legitimate ground because the US was founded to have separation from Church and State.

You also accuse atheism now of mirroring religious organizations, but I don't see it. Definitely possible but nowhere near the level religion has attained.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by windword

 

This seems ridiculous—Sue people for putting up religious monuments but then put up your own religious monument.

From what I see, its a counter to the big religious book on the public property.
The overwhelming statement on any deity on what is displayed is...nothing..its more a statement on wasting money on belief instead of action, on state sponsored religion, etc.

Religion -requires- a deity

1.The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, esp. a personal God or gods.

there is no deity in atheism, therefore it is not a religion regardless of how much you would like to twist the word.
It is simply a observation and a stance based on that observation. Nothing superhuman or paranormal in its suggestions, no structured system of things to believe in. Atheism is to religion what unicorns are to automobiles. Completely unrelated. Automobiles are not trying to be unicorns, and atheism is not trying to be a religion.

Originally posted by LesMisanthrope
reply to post by windword

 

This seems ridiculous—Sue people for putting up religious monuments but then put up your own religious monument.

The American Atheists are a religious organization seeking to put up a religious monument in honor of their "church" in a public place. They too should be sued. This group promotes and provides information on "atheism", as if their position on God was any different from any other position on God. Pure double-standards and religiosity is what I see here.

Well, yeah and no. There was no need for the religious monument to be put up. So, at the very least the atheist monument strikes some sort of a balance. Funny how a homeless man in desperate need would be arrested for sleeping on that public property, but a group of religious get away with placing a permanent statue there; a statue that serves no purpose and does not represent the government. I dunno. I need to think about this some more.

Why shouldn't atheists have their own monument, atheism is just as much a religion as any other. These fundamentalist atheists often put in more effort in their believing in a negative as believers believing in a God. Laughable really. It will be a monument to foolishness. God will have the last laugh.

reply to post by sinthia


Atheism is not a religion. It is a lack of belief in a deity. There is no belief or religion involved in atheist. An individual person chooses to identify as an atheist. There is no conversion or anything of that nature.

Hey I got no problem with athiesm. I'd agree with most of that front of that monument, but let's get real, you can't build a hospital for the same price as a church...unless you want a hospital the size of a 2 bedroom apartments haha... No but I see what they mean, and I am very much against the luxurious churches with pastors who drive cadillacs, wear custom suits, gold and diamond jewelry, etc... I'm like Schindler, I would take off that gold ring, throw it on the ground, screaming "I could've saved one more!

reply to post by LesMisanthrope


Hi LesMis,

The American Atheists are a religious organization seeking to put up a religious monument in honor of their "church" in a public place. They too should be sued. This group promotes and provides information on "atheism", as if their position on God was any different from any other position on God. Pure double-standards and religiosity is what I see here.

I respectfully disagree. The 10 Commandments is a Biblical writ of law, that it is claimed to have been given by God Almighty himself. The atheist's monument, on the other hand, will have inscribed the writings of real people who were educated and respected, and had influence in the formation of out little republic.

There is no such thing as "information on atheism". You may find, however, atheist who loudly present arguments against religious claims.

Originally posted by borntowatch
10 commandments are relative to the Hebrew religion, Christianity only has two

This particular 10 Commandment monument was erected by a Christian fellowship, and all the arguments on the religious right, arguing for the display of the 10 Commandments in public schools, legislative halls and courthouses, are, in fact Christians, as far as I know. I haven't heard of any Jewish group pushing for their display.

I disagree with you that Christians aren't bound by the 10 Commandments. Not only did Jesus teach the 10 Commandments, he made them harder! Jesus introduced the concept of thought crimes. Remember? If you even think about "coveting" your neighbors wife, you HAVE committed adultery. If you are kind to your brother, smiling while harboring hate for him in your heart, you're sinning.

I'm am atheist, and I don't profess to speak for anyone other than myself.

I don't want an "atheist" monument erected, mostly because no other atheist can claim kinship with me simply because we are both atheists. This is not a tie that binds us together, we are not a fellowship, not a religion. Religion unites people under common belief. Atheism rejects religious belief.

I don't spout on and on about Flying Spaghetti Monsters, because it has nothing to do with being an atheist, and everything to do with being a friggin' jerk. Great, you're an atheist, so am I, and unless you are speaking out about how religion is personally or culturally affecting you, I really don't want to hear about it.

I think this 'atheist' monument, and the wording chosen to represent atheists is insulting to me as an atheist, and I don't want people thinking that this is who I am based on the words of a stone monument.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

I think this 'atheist' monument, and the wording chosen to represent atheists is insulting to me as an atheist, and I don't want people thinking that this is who I am based on the words of a stone monument.

HI there,

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what wording has you offended? Why do you find other atheists speaking out against religious indoctrination insulting?

Would you speak out against the teaching of creationism in public school? How about religious doctrine being enforced by legislation? When would you speak out against the encroachment of religious dogma impinging on secular society?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

 

I think this 'atheist' monument, and the wording chosen to represent atheists is insulting to me as an atheist, and I don't want people thinking that this is who I am based on the words of a stone monument.

HI there,

I'm curious, if you don't mind me asking, what wording has you offended? Why do you find other atheists speaking out against religious indoctrination insulting?

Would you speak out against the teaching of creationism in public school? How about religious doctrine being enforced by legislation? When would you speak out against the encroachment of religious dogma impinging on secular society?

"An Atheist believes..."

This American Atheist group has absolutely no authority to speak for me as an atheist. They didn't say, "The American Atheist group believes...", they spoke for me.

I don't consider Atheists speaking out against religious indoctrination insulting, I find it insulting when they include me in their fight by claiming that this is what atheists believe.

It doesn't matter what my political affiliations are. That's the point. I don't speak for atheists, and atheists don't speak for me. My lack of faith does not require me to speak out against religious dogmatic indoctrination simply because I am an atheist, just as the religious have no requirement to speak out in favor of teaching creationism in school, though in the case of religious affiliations, the faithful begin to splinter when they disagree.

Atheism has no tenets. We have no group beliefs to hold us together, and thus cannot splinter apart. I don't want to be part of a religion, and they have no right to declare what 'an atheist' believes.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


Thanks for your reply. I can totally see your point. However, that was a quote from American Atheists founder Madalyn Murray O'Hair, and not really meant to be a blanket statement, in my opinion, although it does appear to be, and does beg all atheists to agree with it's sentiment.