Built to Break, a world constructed on unregulated capitalism.

What the title means is: In today's world, we use so many items in our daily lives, either ours or the place of which we work, or even at the store you use a cart or self check out machines.

Point being, we use things everyday. But how long do any of these items really last?

Why is it, that we have gone from a Ford car that if broken down, you could fix it with the old washing machine or gasp another broken vehicle held the part to fix it, to this world where you cannot even take out your own radio in your car without a special tool, where even the Allen wrench is being shelved to make way for specialized tools that only the manufacture has a patent too. Where most things contain plastic and not the rubbermaid durable kind, the cheap temperature sensitive kind that breaks constantly from easy accidents.

We've moved into this world where even recycled items aren't able to be re-recycled, without a special secret to the process. No wonder innovation became stagnant, we don't even allow people to tinker like they used to be able too, it's written on most items, we are asking and sometimes forcing our people to not be Mr & Mrs Fixit, to if it's broke buy a new one, throw the old away.

You can make more screwing your consumer over selling it one time to them, and having it break from cheap parts, blame it on the
" factory " ( but you told them to use the parts ), they aren't under any form of anything from USA consumer protection orgs and they just made 25.99 times 500,000 on a bad week. This is why our country is failing yet our stock market is rising.

Well, tides are turning and the new gold rush will start and has in many cases already. But the 1st to figure out a economic and consumer solution to our wasteful lifestyles will clean out more than the internet and PC boom together. Considering most of our land littered with more trash than we even care to pay attention too.

How do you feel about our companies allowed to make a buck off your frustration over a cheap part, a wasteful idea, or specialized manufacturing that limits consumer's future repair.

What are your ideas for fixing the future?

It would be called technology.

If you would prefer to drive the horse and buggy that you can fix by finding sticks on the side of the road I'm sure the Amish would welcome you with open arms.

The rest of us however like to progress.

reply to post by Hopechest


This wasn't to be taken as a Anti-technology post.

I understand we can do things much better, and work with problems to create solutions. Not create problems to create solutions. Current companies see profit in selling cheapest made products and there is a huge cost to the consumer, the workers who make the product and the environment.

I'm asking for ideas about using new forms of technology to solve these shoty issues companies introduce as a means to make money. Maybe make it more profitable somehow for them to sell you a well made longer lasting product than it is to make a infinite number of crap items.

Part of consumerism or capitalism. Stimulate continuous buying to create jobs in China.

reply to post by Tranceopticalinclined


There are good products out there and there are bad products out there.

If you buy a wrench from Wal-mart odds are the head will snap off in 6 months. If you buy a Craftsman wrench it will be with you forever.

You get what you pay for.

To say that all products are now being made just so you have to replace them is a silly statement. There are plenty of good products but they cost more and many people choose to use the cheaper versions which do and will require replacement or maintenance.

Originally posted by Hopechest
It would be called technology.

If you would prefer to drive the horse and buggy that you can fix by finding sticks on the side of the road I'm sure the Amish would welcome you with open arms.

The rest of us however like to progress.

No it's not called technology it's called planned obsolescence. It is used stimulate and perpetuate consumption. Designing something so it will break within a certain time-frame so the customer will buy another isn't progress it's greed.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Hopechest
It would be called technology.

If you would prefer to drive the horse and buggy that you can fix by finding sticks on the side of the road I'm sure the Amish would welcome you with open arms.

The rest of us however like to progress.

No it's not called technology it's called planned obsolescence. It is used stimulate and perpetuate consumption. Designing something so it will break within a certain time-frame so the customer will buy another isn't progress it's greed.

There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.

reply to post by Hopechest


Most wrenches are solid state items, casting would be the main issue I'd worry about, stanely makes a good wrench too.

Most items we buy are not made from solid state construction, nor are they as durable as even the cheapest made wrench you can find. Seems this Thread is being derailed for some reason, and cannot have an honest conversation as to why more cheaply made items are being allowed to be sold, yes people need to be able to sell their wares, but wares worth selling would be a main focus I'd hope.

Funny you say wrench, since I can mention something about tools and time.
For a while when I was younger, you'd buy a toolset and it would come in a metal sturdy box, now you buy a toolset most of the metal boxes are considered " High End " while the regular joe's toolset comes inside a plastic snapshut. Why the change, to cut on costs, but the price didn't drop, the quality did.

Time Changed Items, we seem to be full of items that require either a timed fix for a break it's designed to do, or it has an actual shelve life like food.

Originally posted by Tranceopticalinclined
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Most wrenches are solid state items, casting would be the main issue I'd worry about, stanely makes a good wrench too.

Most items we buy are not made from solid state construction, nor are they as durable as even the cheapest made wrench you can find. Seems this Thread is being derailed for some reason, and cannot have an honest conversation as to why more cheaply made items are being allowed to be sold, yes people need to be able to sell their wares, but wares worth selling would be a main focus I'd hope.

Funny you say wrench, since I can mention something about tools and time.
For a while when I was younger, you'd buy a toolset and it would come in a metal sturdy box, now you buy a toolset most of the metal boxes are considered " High End " while the regular joe's toolset comes inside a plastic snapshut. Why the change, to cut on costs, but the price didn't drop, the quality did.

Cheaper items are sold to appeal to the market that can't afford the higher quality items. Yes they break but its because...well...they are made cheaply.

Pointing out logic is not derailing your thread.

1. Identify the problem. Lobbying
Corporations are not the problem, Our gov't depending on the lobbying industries (Corp,private,and non corp) money , our gov't having revolving doors with the same people they are suppose to regulate, our Gov't allowing oligopoly to exist.

2. Wake up: Republicans and Democrats ARE BOTH TO BLAME.
Both party have been in full control and had opportunities to fix thing and they never have. The same issues that exist today have existed for numerous decades or they go through cycles. I have yet seen any accountability from either party nor any firm moral compass from either one.

3. Democrat and Republicans need to unite.
Both party need to put their political ideals aside and unite to confront the real problem. Our gov't works for the highest bidder and not the American people. The American people have to pay their taxes and gov't doesn't worry about them. The gov't has to worry about the lobbyist cutting their life line out , therefore they cater to them and not us the people.

Democrats and Republicans need to demand
a. term limits in congress

b. increase separation between lobbying and state . Lobbying is just a legal white collar version of bribery.
Both party members should not allow any other topics to be discussed and they should make those things priority one. The other stuff you cant even begin to tackle when bribery is taking place. You need to remove the monetary influences in DC in order to see the truth. Without the truth you will not be able to fix the real problems and you will be going around in circles with distractions.


c. Accountability. As a high ranking public official you should be held accountable when someone down the chain is involved in a large scandal. They should be kicked out of all public offices and we should not accept that they were not aware of the situation. If they were not aware of what is going on from the bottom up perhaps they shouldn't be in that position anyway.


Until you get the political cheerleading democrats and republicans from blaming the other you wont fix anything and we will continue to live in global utopian corporate run world.

reply to post by Hopechest


Making cheaper/weaker alternatives is just wasting material... It is not sustainable. Every product should be designed to last as long as possible.

I do not know of any tech company who designes their products to last as long as possible. Most of the tech, especially computers, cell phones, are designed to last as long as the warranty ends. After that the likelyhood of some part breaking down increases a lot. If it breaks, you go buy a new one. One cycle ends, new begins.

Same is with most clothes, especially fashion, which is designed to last for a season.

Cheaper materials, which break down fast should not be used by any company.

reply to post by interupt42


The founding fathers wrote, specifically Madison, that preventing people from having access to Congress would be worse than whatever problems they cause by lobbying.

Do you really want a bunch of people making laws for us with zero input from the people?

I don't.

A great example of this is recently, I had to take an old microwave out of service in my building. Not because it was broken mind you, but because it had become rusted out and crusty on the inside to the point that nobody wanted to use it anymore. When I took it back to the shop, I noticed that it had been built about 20 years ago (back in the '80's) and was still working fine.

A year earlier, I had to buy a microwave from WalMart. It died a few weeks before I had to replace the microwave at work and I had to shell out big bucks again to replace it.

Pissed me the Hell off that the new stuff in the stores is such junk while the ancient stuff at my work was built to last.

Tech is another good example, I consider myself a techie, and I use the Older hardware since it's normally the most reliable, same goes for software too, sadly. But opensource normally has a solution for most consumer products, just a lot easier to use since they didn't try and create some hugely complicated ordeal, and tried to mimic the popular product by simplest means. But even windows 8 and above is going to be so nerve racking to use I am considering just abandoning completely their use past funny enough Vista, which despite much boos and hisses has been a very stable and even recoverable from a few hackatacks, it's truly easier to fix than what will be coming out in our near future.

Soon software will be the only thing standing in your way of fixing a problem, and of course who is going to have that special few lines of code? hope you are inside your warranty.

I want to build a better sustainable future for my kids and theirs, a place that has alternative ideas for the idiotic ones with an actual platform to achieve and maybe even through leading set a standard in production and marketing, of selling products that withstand time, wastes as little as possible and is multifunctional if not as simplistic.

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by interupt42

 

The founding fathers wrote, specifically Madison, that preventing people from having access to Congress would be worse than whatever problems they cause by lobbying.

Do you really want a bunch of people making laws for us with zero input from the people?

I don't.

Maybe I need to clarify. Lobbying today is in regards to the highest bidder. I can also see and understand why AT ONE TIME lobbying was a good thing the way it was setup.

However, back when Madison was running the show their technology was non existent and unable to tackle the problem. Today we have the technology that we can look into utilizing that can do away or modify the current lobbying process. However, re analysing lobbying procedures with current technology isn't even a topic of discussion even though it has the biggest impact to our economy and our laws.

I would like to have a think tank formed to really look into this.

1. Instead of using money (billions) to raise awareness to your cause , why can't we have a gov't website where people can vote on their causes?

Access can be provided by phone,public places like schools , library etc for those that don't have internet or computers.

Why do we have to give billions to our gov't to hear us out in todays technological world?


This would reduce the risk of bribery our officials , give little people a voice as loud as the big ones. I think Madison would have liked that.

Perhaps with a system like this we could pass a solid bill to ensure that congress is held responsible for insider trading instead of passing the the National Defense Authorization Act and the music industries bills that allow you to get your child arrested for downloading a song.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by Hopechest
It would be called technology.

If you would prefer to drive the horse and buggy that you can fix by finding sticks on the side of the road I'm sure the Amish would welcome you with open arms.

The rest of us however like to progress.

No it's not called technology it's called planned obsolescence. It is used stimulate and perpetuate consumption. Designing something so it will break within a certain time-frame so the customer will buy another isn't progress it's greed.

There is no product on the market that you cannot buy a good version of that will last.

Show me one and I will politely bow to your wisdom.

I'll give you a few. Incandescent Light Bulbs, nylon stockings and printers. The light bulbs used to have a life span of 2500 hours that has been knocked down to just 1000 hours these are the type bulbs that are used in homes. Stockings used to be strong enough you could tow a car with them good luck trying that now. And printers have a chip in them that will break after a predetermined number of pages has been printed.

I just had a thought, stand back..... Ok it didn't explode, here it is.

With 3d printing, soon plastic won't be all that can be printed, so how much you wanna bet many product companies are scared right now due to everyone who can buy a printer / use a community one can soon print whatever they need.

Am sure composite printers as soon behind them, so laptops and pcs to be printed as well.. Food after that, welcome to the world of tomorrow ( in waviest voice possible )

Originally posted by interupt42

Originally posted by Hopechest
reply to post by interupt42

 

The founding fathers wrote, specifically Madison, that preventing people from having access to Congress would be worse than whatever problems they cause by lobbying.

Do you really want a bunch of people making laws for us with zero input from the people?

I don't.

Maybe I need to clarify. Lobbying today is in regards to the highest bidder. I can also see and understand why AT ONE TIME lobbying was a good thing the way it was setup.

However, back when Madison was running the show their technology was non existent and unable to tackle the problem. Today we have the technology that we can look into utilizing that can do away or modify the current lobbying process. However, re analysing lobbying procedures with current technology isn't even a topic of discussion even though it has the biggest impact to our economy and our laws.

I would like to have a think tank formed to really look into this.

1. Instead of using money (billions) to raise awareness to your cause , why can't we have a gov't website where people can vote on their causes?

Access can be provided by phone,public places like schools , library etc for those that don't have internet or computers.

Why do we have to give billions to our gov't to hear us out in todays technological world?

You apparently do not understand the lobbying process.

Nobody lobbies with billions of dollars...many people think that there are lobbiests standing outside and as soon as the congressmen walk out they hand them bags full of money for votes.

It doesn't work like that at all. There has never been a congressman that went into office poor and left rich. NEVER

What lobbiests do is offer things to particular people such as promising to expand their business into a certain state if this or that congressperson votes for legislation favorable to them. They may offer job opportunities to the person once they leave office or consulting gigs, they may promise to help in their re-election campaign with either funds or staff....but they never offer bribes.

And there are actually only a select few people that are targeted by lobbiests such as the heads of committees or the leaders of the Senate or the House, the rest probably never even come in contact with lobbiests.

reply to post by buster2010

No it's not called technology it's called planned obsolescence. It is used stimulate and perpetuate consumption. Designing something so it will break within a certain time-frame so the customer will buy another isn't progress it's greed.

Planned obsolescence, absolutely !

There used to be a time when you could buy a large appliance and that sucker would be good for 30+ years, with only having to change out a $0.60 fuse once in a while.

Now, you're lucky if you get 5-10 years out of an appliance.

Remember those people called "tv repairmen" ? They've disappeared with the dinosaurs. TV's used to be repairable, if and when they broke down... Now ? Forget it, they get tossed into the landfill as "unrepairable".

I have a $3000 fridge, a $2000 stove, a $1100 dishwasher, a $1000 over-the-range microwave, and a $4000 washer and dryer set... Supposed "top of the line" appliances that we paid a pretty penny for in order to "get what we paid for". Well, three of those appliances have needed to be repaired within the first 3 years of purchasing them. Each repair was due to faulty parts and wiring. Luckily I have a husband who's an electrical Einstein, or we would have been looking at paying hundreds of dollars to fix the damn things.

I should have stuck with my old appliances that I had for damn near most of my entire adult life without any problems.

The old fridge that I've had for the past 20+ years is being used in our garage as a beer fridge for the boys when they pop over to visit hubby to hang out in the "man cave".

Reduce, reuse, recycle ?
Don't make me laugh.

Nothing is recyclable nowadays.

reply to post by Hopechest


LOL, And they hold hands and pray to do the best and morally correct thing for the American people , their constituents and their organizations. What and how its suppose to work is different from reality once you add money to the equation.

They don't directly hand them over money but they know how to get around the laws because they create the laws.

jack abramoff and common sense might have a little more information in to the reality of the way the lobbying industry works
www.youtube.com...: