British Newspapers Line Up to Praise Muslim "Holocaust" Denial.

An article has been posted by Cheradenine Zakalwe at the we Mod Edit - Link to hate speech website removed The article itself titled "British Newspapers Line Up to Praise Muslim "Holocaust" Denial." raises some interesting opinions and points.

A large part of what's wrong with Islam is its refusal to acknowledge fault.

There are many Muslims coming out saying "This isn't Islam", when the unfortunate fact is, the attackers believed they were doing something out of religious piety and duty.
The spin machine is in motion to attempt to assuage us all that they were not doing anything in the name of allah or Islam. However the attacker said this,

There are many, many ayah throughout the Koran that says we must fight them as they fight us, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth. I apologize that women had to witness this today but in our land women have to see the same. You people will never be safe. Remove your government, they don’t care about you.

Muslims have been promised world dominion by their prophet, The Koran explicitly states that the world must be under Islam, and that Muslims are to keep pushing the agenda of world domination any way they can, if this means violence, then use it with blessings.
The very fact that young men are told there are 72 virgins waiting for them in heaven if they die a martyrs death is itself indicative that Islam is happy to use coercion in furthering the agenda in the most violent of ways.

And since they had been told their religion, their system, their prophet was perfect, no acknowledgement of fault was possible.

What's bizarre is that this refusal to accept blame or acknowledge fault, this rejection of the possibility of moral growth, is praised to the high heavens by non-Muslims.

We see condemnations from the muslim community that "This isn't the islam that i know", however this IS the islam that the killers were radicalised with.

It isn't helping that these messages are trying to distance Islam from the attacks yesterday.

Accept that this IS the islam that was responsible for the attacks, and please attempt to modernise or understand that NO religion is perfect, and it does not help ANYONE by distancing yourself from it's imperfections because you think YOUR own version of Islam is perfect.

The Muslims in luton right now celebrating the attacks are Muslims, they worship Islam, the same Islam as the rest of the Muslims.

Please read the article.

reply to post by The X



Did the attackers not state quite clearly on camera why they did this because they were simply tired of seeing muslims being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, where western coalition forces are currently occupying those nations?

They did not seem to give any sort of existential theological argument for what they did, they were pretty clear why they did it. Did not really seem to have a great deal to do with Islam, but you know, I guess we can look to see how much we can make it about Islam. Because thats the "in thing" right now isnt it?

ISLAM VS THE WEST

Dun dun dun!!

I didn't see any evidence of British newspapers praising Muslim "Holocaust" denial.

reply to post by Sankari


I agree the op is stretching on this one.

By the way, why Henrietta for an avatar? Gun slinger girl is the only comic to ever make me cry. So evil, so evil.

There's loads of crazy violent stuff in the Bible, and plenty of nutjob Christians doing horrible things in the name of Christ. And you might have noticed that only one 'nation under God' is currently occupying bits of the middle east.

Islam's got some unique problems, but the vast majority of its adherents are peaceful. And accusing the British papers of being soft on muslims and then conflating that with holocaust denial is more than a stretch. It's a complete joke.

The United Kingdom will always proudly uphold the notion that people have both Freedom OF Religion and Freedom FROM Religion. There will always be extremists in any group/organisation, the trick is treat people as individuals and not get caught up in the divide and conquer strategy used by government's against its people.

Extremism definitely needs to be dealt with but these 2 murderers do not represent the rest of the muslim population.

Originally posted by Tuttle
reply to post by The X

 

Did the attackers not state quite clearly on camera why they did this because they were simply tired of seeing muslims being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, where western coalition forces are currently occupying those nations?

They did not seem to give any sort of existential theological argument for what they did, they were pretty clear why they did it. Did not really seem to have a great deal to do with Islam, but you know, I guess we can look to see how much we can make it about Islam. Because thats the "in thing" right now isnt it?

ISLAM VS THE WEST

Dun dun dun!!

edit on 23-5-2013 by Tuttle because: (no reason given)

Ah cool, so long as they are only butchering people for political reasons....

Originally posted by Mister_Bit

Originally posted by Tuttle
reply to post by The X

 

Did the attackers not state quite clearly on camera why they did this because they were simply tired of seeing muslims being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, where western coalition forces are currently occupying those nations?

They did not seem to give any sort of existential theological argument for what they did, they were pretty clear why they did it. Did not really seem to have a great deal to do with Islam, but you know, I guess we can look to see how much we can make it about Islam. Because thats the "in thing" right now isnt it?

ISLAM VS THE WEST

Dun dun dun!!

edit on 23-5-2013 by Tuttle because: (no reason given)

Ah cool, so long as they are only butchering people for political reasons....

Were those individuals not shot and arrested? Will they not face justice?

If western countries keep interfering in Muslim regions and continue making their lives miserable,it will be inevitable to get a back lash sooner than later....You cant blame the bee for stinging you while you are poking the beehive ....Violence is not justified by any means but there are certain rules in the nature that if we do not follow properly then we should be expecting the consequences.

Originally posted by Tuttle
reply to post by The X

 

Did the attackers not state quite clearly on camera why they did this because they were simply tired of seeing muslims being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, where western coalition forces are currently occupying those nations?

They did not seem to give any sort of existential theological argument for what they did, they were pretty clear why they did it. Did not really seem to have a great deal to do with Islam, but you know, I guess we can look to see how much we can make it about Islam. Because thats the "in thing" right now isnt it?

Eh? A Muslim is a follower of Islam. Geddit? Plus maybe you didn't read about what they were shouting as they went about their work? So yes of course they were motivated by religion - a radical form of Islam but Islam none the less. In this respect the OP was right.
And all the predictable bleating on about how there are extremes in every religion doesn't make it less true or less of a concern.

Originally posted by Tuttle

Did the attackers not state quite clearly on camera why they did this because they were simply tired of seeing muslims being killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, where western coalition forces are currently occupying those nations?

Well done, i quite agree, no they didn't.

They did not seem to give any sort of existential theological argument for what they did, they were pretty clear why they did it.

Yes they did, or have you not bothered to find the full interview the killer gave?, The full interview starts with this.

There are many, many ayah throughout the Koran that says we must fight them as they fight us, an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.

Did not really seem to have a great deal to do with Islam

That is an outright lie.but you know, I guess we can look to see how much we can not make it about Islam.

Because thats the "in thing" right now isnt it?

ISLAM VS THE WEST

Dun dun dun!!

Muslim preacher urges followers to claim 'Jihad Seeker's Allowance' A Muslim preacher is secretly filmed urging followers to take benefits from the state to fund a holy war.

“What ultimately do we want to happen to them?” asked Choudary. “Maybe I’m the only one who wants the shaitan to be killed. The shaitan should be finished. There should be no shaitan.

Well mr choudray it seems devotees to islam are also killing the shaitan, so no you are not the only one.

Telegraph article quotes lifted from, Jihadi seekers allowance

Everytime we allow the real reasons for these attacks to go uncontested, shows weakness wanting to deal with the root of the problem.

Radical islam IS a problem in britain today.

Originally posted by shapur
If western countries keep interfering in Muslim regions and continue making their lives miserable,it will be inevitable to get a back lash sooner than later....You cant blame the bee for stinging you while you are poking the beehive ....Violence is not justified by any means but there are certain rules in the nature that if we do not follow properly then we should be expecting the consequences.

If you are a wasp and you find yourself in a hornets nest, don't sting the queen.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
The United Kingdom will always proudly uphold the notion that people have both Freedom OF Religion and Freedom FROM Religion. There will always be extremists in any group/organisation, the trick is treat people as individuals and not get caught up in the divide and conquer strategy used by government's against its people.

Extremism definitely needs to be dealt with but these 2 murderers do not represent the rest of the muslim population.

Of course they don't represent every single muslim, but, if you look at these killings from a theological point of view, they fulfilled the koran and by extension the beliefs of all muslims who regard the book as the word of mohammad.

The whole point of the koran is it codifies entire populations world wide into a single submissive entity under the book and sharia law.

Having muslims say "That is not my Islam" is a blatant lie, IT IS their Islam, Just because somebody has carried out one of the more extreme instructions from the koran, does not stop it being their Islam.

If there is a progressive muslim movement that is willing to separate from the intolerant and backwards aspect of the religion, and become progressive in its outlook, i am sure britain and the british people would support them strongly.

reply to post by The X

There are many Muslims coming out saying "This isn't Islam", when the unfortunate fact is, the attackers believed they were doing something out of religious piety and duty.

Yes, they are saying that.
And the unfortunate fact is that the attackers ARE representing Islam.....

I've been railing about this for quite some time now. If it's not "Islam" then Muslims need to publicly, and GLOBALLY, renounce them as such, just like the Westboro Baptist "Church" has been renounced by "Christians".
S/F

It's almost like vague religious texts from centuries ago are open to interpretation.

reply to post by KingIcarus

It's almost like vague religious texts from centuries ago are open to interpretation.

!!!
How very droll.
Yeah, the 'interpretation' thing is a huge thorn in the paw....and casts doubt on all of them.

Originally posted by JuniorDisco
There's loads of crazy violent stuff in the Bible, and plenty of nutjob Christians doing horrible things in the name of Christ. And you might have noticed that only one 'nation under God' is currently occupying bits of the middle east.

Islam's got some unique problems, but the vast majority of its adherents are peaceful. And accusing the British papers of being soft on muslims and then conflating that with holocaust denial is more than a stretch. It's a complete joke.

You don't get it, the terminology for the denial by a whole religious demograph for the crimes in which they are complicit doesn't exist "Holocaust denial" is the closest terminology the person who wrote the article could use to approach (A) The scale of denial, and, (B) The severity of their dis-association from the reality of the radicalisation, and, the truth in action of that same radicalisation, with the concurrent responsibilities and outcomes.
In much the same way that a complete denial of the holocaust negates the suffering of those who were victims of the nazi regime, no matter the number.

And where do you get your understanding that most of the muslims are peaceful?.
At best anyone who is in denial of the acts are at best complicit, and those who won't condemn them, are also complicit.
And before you say "Herp derp they can't win", yes they can, begin to modernise and become a progressive aspect of Islam.

And please show me with links the most retarded aspects of christianity in action, as far as i can see things like.

Genesis 19:8

“Look, I have two daughters, virgins both of them. Let me bring them out to you and you could do what you like with them. But do nothing to these men because they have come under the shelter of my roof.”

or,

Kings 2:23

Then he went up from there to Bethel; and as he was going up the road, some youths came from the city and mocked him, and said to him, “Go up, you bald head! Go up, you bald head!” So he turned around and looked at them, and pronounced a curse on them in the name of the Lord. And two female bears came out of the woods and mauled forty-two of the youths.

or,

Leviticus 24:16

Whoever utters the name of the Lord must be put to death. The whole community must stone him, whether alien or native. If he utters the name, he must be put to death.

or this,

St Paul's advice in 1 Timothy 2:12, in which the saint says: "I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, she must be silent."

however, Taliban massacre five women teachers travelling to primary school in protest at female education in Pakistan

Exodus 22:18: "Do not allow a sorceress to live."

Have become nothing more than talking points for christian scholars as the christian faith has modernised, unfortunately however, From WikiIslam, the online resource on Islam Islamic Witch Hunts (United Kingdom)

you see although "Christianity" has some very stupid edicts, the progressives have made the rest see sense, and the worst parts of the bible have literally been left in the dust.

why can't Islam own up to the fact that it is NOT the perfect religion of peace, also, that they deceive themselves, and become P R O G R E S S I V E and modernised.

is that too much to ask a bunch of medieval bandits in a country of the 21st century?.

reply to post by The X


Sorry, maybe I didnt explain myself better earlier. My point is they stated quite clearly they did this because western coalition forces are murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan.

In my opinion, if one were to say the deed they committed was soley on account of the religion they follow, then one has to bear in mind, if western coalition forces were not murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan this supposedly committed follower of Islam would carry out another seemingly irrational act of utra violence on an another in totaly difference circumstances.

But if one thinks that is quite unlikely for anyone to commit an act of extreme sporadic violence simply because of the religion they adhere, then one must look for more logical reasons as to why such an act was perpetrated. And when you happen to be looking for such reasons, you are handed primary source material of the accused telling you the reason why he did this was entirely because of western coalition forces are murdering people in Iraq and Afghanistan one must surely then take that as the reason to why the deed was carried out. And you should not at any point attribute the reasons for why this happened to anything other than what you have just learned simply because you may want it to be true.

Just sayin anyway, take it easy man.

you see although "Christianity" has some very stupid edicts, the progressives have made the rest see sense, and the worst parts of the bible have literally been left in the dust. why can't Islam own up to the fact that it is NOT the perfect religion of peace, also, that they deceive themselves, and become P R O G R E S S I V E and modernised.

Islam is still very young compared to the cult of christ, Islam still has centuries of evolving to do to be at the stage where Christianity is now, and during its lifetime it has never had to adjust to a society such as how Christianity adjusted to ours in the West.

But like any religion, some countries take it seriously, others dont, Omans pretty laid back, smoke, drink pretty much any place you like, good bars, pool halls, cool place to be. So you always kinda gotta watch when you apply a blanket term like Islam as the sole cause of something. Perhaps take into account the extreme societal pressures placed upon a people, is it simply a religion that made them do it?, hmmmm personaly I always believe there is more to it than that.

reply to post by Tuttle

[snipped]

My problem with "They did it as a response to miltary action in iraq and afghanistan" is this.

Whilst they were beheading him they were shouting "alluha akbar", that in itself brings a religious dimension to it.
An eye for an eye, they found justification for their actions in the koran, these people were religious zealots.

Also if they wanted to just kill a soldier as a reprisal for attacks in the middle east, why didn't they just kill him and walk away, beheading has become a hallmark of ISLAMIC fundamentalism, It is interesting that this aspect the government are trying to spin saying he wasn't beheaded, why?, because they know this places the act beyond a mere murder and makes it something else.

If they just wanted to make a statement about soldiers committing acts of violence, why not choose a soldier who was black like himself, or, a muslim or seihk.

Would he have committed this murder if he had not converted to Islam?.

He was not an "Arab" he was a nigerian, his only connection with "My People" is the religion.


There are two types of "Jihad" firstly the meaning to fight the battle of belief within ones self, to create within your soul a complete and unhindered love for god and the islamic faith.

Secondly "Jihad of the sword", this is why beheadings are the hallmark of Islamic fundamentalist jihad, they have become synonymous with the acts of militarised Islamic religious ideologues, using the action to specify they have done this as an act of military jihad.

The political and religious aspects of this attack are inseperable, it is mendacious to imply that Islam is not responsible for the killings, It was Islam that radicalised a christian born nigerian convert in seven years into committing this egregious act of violence.

And the point you made about people being different in different countries, well yes they are, however.
[snipped]

Mod - Edit - link to hate speech website removed

Mod note - ATS does not tolerate hate speech in any way, shape or form

Originally posted by The X

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
The United Kingdom will always proudly uphold the notion that people have both Freedom OF Religion and Freedom FROM Religion. There will always be extremists in any group/organisation, the trick is treat people as individuals and not get caught up in the divide and conquer strategy used by government's against its people.

Extremism definitely needs to be dealt with but these 2 murderers do not represent the rest of the muslim population.

Of course they don't represent every single muslim, but, if you look at these killings from a theological point of view, they fulfilled the koran and by extension the beliefs of all muslims who regard the book as the word of mohammad.

The whole point of the koran is it codifies entire populations world wide into a single submissive entity under the book and sharia law.

Having muslims say "That is not my Islam" is a blatant lie, IT IS their Islam, Just because somebody has carried out one of the more extreme instructions from the koran, does not stop it being their Islam.

If there is a progressive muslim movement that is willing to separate from the intolerant and backwards aspect of the religion, and become progressive in its outlook, i am sure britain and the british people would support them strongly.

Christians are doing the same things in other parts of the world, look at the Ugandan "kill the gays" bill, heavily influenced by fundamental christian beliefs. Religions are designed to manipulate and control large amounts of people, not every christian wants to burn women at the stake for "being a witch" not every muslim wants to murder someone for being a non-believer, people need to wake up and stop being so hateful.