Be the victim, not the perpetrator

Not so much the conspiracy but
I have just learned a valuable lesson, as a Christian it is better the be a victim than a perpetrator.
Jesus died a victim, He lost everything He was entitled to.
Christianity seems to teach accept victimisation , shouldnt we....happily.
Its deeper than that, far deeper but shouldnt the Christian accept death and all the crap that goes with the humility of Christ.
Pain is a joy when we know Jesus died for us.
Its not a war but a surrender.
Does the church lie to Christians when they say we claim the victory, Jesus was no victor, He got smashed.
Shouldnt Christians accept we will get smashed as well

reply to post by borntowatch


Accepting victimisation and turning the other cheek is absolutely dangerous. It breeds apathy, and it lets the evil people run rampant, which is EXACTLY what has happened. This lie is one of the biggest weapons the church has used to enable it to act with impunity.

Yes, forgiveness is admirable, but at the same time, if people are causing real damage then they need to be stopped so other people do not go through what you have done.

reply to post by borntowatch


As an atheist, all my analysis and investigations actually agree with you, even though I came to it from an different angle completely.

If you look like an aggressor, you'll lose at the end. If you just stay passive, and let your opponent express his rage, your opponent will lose at the end because he'll look like the bad guy. Simple logic.

S&F.

Originally posted by Firefly_
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Accepting victimisation and turning the other cheek is absolutely dangerous. It breeds apathy, and it lets the evil people run rampant, which is EXACTLY what has happened. This lie is one of the biggest weapons the church has used to enable it to act with impunity.

Yes, forgiveness is admirable, but at the same time, if people are causing real damage then they need to be stopped so other people do not go through what you have done.

So you would gladly become those you detest???
From a Christian perspective isnt the promise in the future, not here??? Do we believe that???

Originally posted by Firefly_
Yes, forgiveness is admirable, but at the same time, if people are causing real damage then they need to be stopped so other people do not go through what you have done.

And who are these people who need to be stopped? How can you be sure you won't actually be stopping the one who are trying to stop what you went through? The problem with that system is investigation breakdown, and you start living in a might make right world, with still yet another top system, one which will be much harder to bring down due to the nature of its victory. With this course of action, you'll be having the same problem than with antibiotic resistance from bacterias.

reply to post by borntowatch


No, not gladly. I have done at times, and its not nice, but sometimes you need to strike back.

You can accept all the crap done to you but do you not have a responsibility to your fellow man? If you come across someone being attacked, would you just let them get attacked or do something about it?

If people stood up against the evils that plague us all now, rather than just accept it, this world would be a much different, and most likely better, place. Sure there would be a fight, but as the saying goes (paraphrased) "for evil to prosper the good have to do nothing". Do you not get it?

Originally posted by Firefly_
If people stood up against the evils that plague us all now, rather than just accept it, this world would be a much different, and most likely better, place.

Unlikely. If such fight should happen today, it will most likely be lead by power hungry people. Just like it happened in all other revolutions during history.

You would basically be trading a lesser evil for a greater evil. These leaders will keep reminding you that they supported you in your fight, thus you must do what they tell you to do (the "favours" principle) and you'll have even less freedom than before. Bad Idea.

I'm not playing victim at all.
pardon me but eff that.
I tend to lean towards this quote when dealing with the anti christians (even though I know its a dubbed verse from the Bible)

Jules' speech from Ezekiel 25:17: (Pulp Fiction)
'The path of the righteous man is beset on all sides with the iniquities of the selfish and the tyranny of evil men. Blessed is he who in the name of charity and good will shepherds the weak through the valley of darkness, for he is truly his brother's keeper and the finder of lost children. And I will strike down upon those with great vengeance and with furious anger those who attempt to poison and destroy my brothers. And you will know that my name is the Lord when I lay my vengeance upon thee.'

It's one thing to control oneself, take the high road, and not get angry, but victimization is always bad.

Originally posted by amazing
It's one thing to control oneself, take the high road, and not get angry, but victimization is always bad.

So is to be the perpetrator.

reply to post by swan001


You are saying it like there are only 2 options. You can do something about evils without being a perpetrator. Do not fall for the lie that all violence is evil. Defence and offence are different. Only unnecessary violence is evil. Sometimes it is necessary, and if it is used responsibly and means getting rid of evil, then that is good, right?

If you do not get rid of it when you have the chance, and just let it walk all over you then onto the next person, then you become partially responsible for what it does from then on.

reply to post by borntowatch


Religion was made up by kings, for kings to use on the populace.
You see, when the king has a peasant murdered because he is a sociopath, there is the "it is the will of god"...
Then there is the "forgive and forget" bullcrap...
I prefer vigilance, vengeance and an iron tight grip on my memory.

reply to post by borntowatch


I think you forgot something. There are not just victims and perpetrators. Here's an analogy. God=shepherd, victim=sheep, and perpetrator=wolf. Now even though there are hundreds of sheep and only one wolf, the sheep do not fight back when the wolf kills a sheep. But God (shepherd) also created sheep-dogs. The shepherd places a sheep-dog among the sheep to protect them. And just the presence of the Sheep-dog is enough to stop the wolf from attacking the sheep.

My point is you may be the wolf or the sheep, but you also have a choice to be the sheep-dog and stop violence and not be either the victim or the perpetrator. For the sake of argument God created all three for a reason, free will=choice.

reply to post by Carreau


Metaphors get sketchy when looking at biblical stories. Jesus = shepherd, also, Jesus = sacrificial unblemished lamb, lamb = Passover/Easter dinner.

Sheep are always the victim.

reply to post by windword


I'm not sure why you replied to me with that post. I clearly stated in mine that sheep=victim. What is your point?

reply to post by borntowatch

Jesus died for us.

Or did he die for throwing the moneychangers out of the temple .... ??

History shows fairly conclusively that anyone who challenges the moneychangers dies, up to and including today. That's why they rule the world.

Originally posted by g146541
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Religion was made up by kings, for kings to use on the populace.
You see, when the king has a peasant murdered because he is a sociopath, there is the "it is the will of god"...
Then there is the "forgive and forget" bullcrap...
I prefer vigilance, vengeance and an iron tight grip on my memory.

Jesus was a King and he showed all the kings of the earth how to act, die for those they serve.
The greater the office the greater the service is Christs teaching
Christianity showed God dying for man. You dont comprehend that by what you have written.
The King served His subjects even unto death.
Thats Christs message to ALL men ESPECIALLY kings.

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by borntowatch

 

I think you forgot something. There are not just victims and perpetrators. Here's an analogy. God=shepherd, victim=sheep, and perpetrator=wolf. Now even though there are hundreds of sheep and only one wolf, the sheep do not fight back when the wolf kills a sheep. But God (shepherd) also created sheep-dogs. The shepherd places a sheep-dog among the sheep to protect them. And just the presence of the Sheep-dog is enough to stop the wolf from attacking the sheep.

My point is you may be the wolf or the sheep, but you also have a choice to be the sheep-dog and stop violence and not be either the victim or the perpetrator. For the sake of argument God created all three for a reason, free will=choice.

I am not saying dont evade violence or dont stop violence.
What I am saying is it is easier on the conscience to be a victim than a perpetrator. Maybe not for the non- christian but for the Christian it is.

reply to post by borntowatch


Where in the bible does it only give those two options, victim or perpetrator? Did not David slay Goliath instead of being a victim?

Originally posted by Carreau
reply to post by borntowatch

 

Where in the bible does it only give those two options, victim or perpetrator? Did not David slay Goliath instead of being a victim?

David served under the Old Law.
Christianity is a different religion.