Freemasonry Victoria: The inside story.

Good Morning/Day/Evening ATS

I happen to come across a show on a community TV station Chanel 31 in Melbourne, Australia this morning.

As soon as I saw it I thought ATS could be a good place to share,

With so much speculation concerning Freemasonry this show wanted to give viewers an inside look at what happens at meetings and ceremonies.

www.c31.org.au...

For those interested in Masonry check it out, very open and not very secret.

www.freemasonsvic.net.au...

How to become, Info on events, history and education, unfortunately no guides on sacrificing newborns to Moloch or Baphomet.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale


For those interested in Masonry check it out, very open and not very secret.

From the catechismal formula of the first degree:

Q: How were you received?

A: On the point of a sharp instrument piercing my naked left breast, which was intended to teach me that, as this was a torture to my flesh, so should the recollection of it be to my mind and conscience, should I reveal the secrets of Masonry unlawfully.

The oath of obligation of the first degree:

I, ________, of my own free will and accord, in the presence of God and this worshipful lodge, erected to him and dedicated to the Holy Saints John, do hereby and hereon solemnly and sincerely promise and swear that I will always hail, ever keep and conceal, and never will reveal any of the arts, parts, or points of the hidden mysteries of ancient Freemasonry which I am now about to receive or may hereafter be instructed in to any person in the world except it be to a true and lawful brother ancient Freemason, or within the body of a just and legally constituted lodge of such; and not unto him or them whom I may hear to be such, but unto him or them only whom, after strict trial, due examination, or lawful information, I shall find to be as lawfully entitled to the same as I myself am about to be.

I furthermore promise and swear that I will not write, print, paint, cut, carve, stamp, stain, mark, or engrave them upon anything moveable or immoveable under the whole canopy of heaven, whereby and whereon the least character, letter, figure, or resemblance of the same may be legible or intelligible to myself or any other person, and the secrets of Freemasonry be thereby unlawfully revealed through my unworthiness.

To all of which I swear, without any mental resevation, or secret evasion in me whatsoever, binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having my throat cut across from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by the roots, my body buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark, a cable tow's length from the shore, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn obligation as an Entered Apprentice. So help me God, and keep me steadfast, and ever in my senses to keep and observe the same.

The above oath is demanded of a blindfolded candidate kneeling at the altar. If he refuses to take it, he must be led out and then kicked out of the building.

But nope, no secrets here!

reply to post by thelonious2


Watch the April 1st video at 12:45 there are no secrets anymore Google anything you want to know.

reply to post by thelonious2

But nope, no secrets here!

Correct,

That would be possible after initiation and trust gained.


Many call Freemasonry evil or there about when in fact the truth is its possible to have people who are members that have their own agenda.

Masonry as an organization is a perfect cover for those wishing to hide their true intent.

However this could be said for any religious organization as well,

What I am getting at is You cant label the whole group evil and the members who say otherwise are to low in rank to know better, its on the same line of thinking as Muslims are Terrorists etc.

Every organization has the potential to have members that have evil/selfish intent, its ignorant to point to one negative thing and try using that one negative as blanket statement covering the whole.

Some can look at the Oath and see their own fears while others can look and feel a fellowship of sorts, something to belong to. Much like a proud marine would view the squad he is a part of.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale
unfortunately no guides on sacrificing newborns to Moloch or Baphomet.

Yea, that stuff comes when you get higher up.
MMMMM, baby stew, my favorite!

reply to post by thelonious2


You found that did you not ? So where are the secrets ?

Originally posted by whenandwhere


You found that did you not ?

I was a Mason for 20 years. I was required to memorize all that nonsense in order to advance to the next degree. I can't even guess at how many hours I wasted memorizing trivial Masonic obscura.

So where are the secrets ?

Each degree has its own special set of secrets that they call the "modes of recognition". They usually consist of signs, grips, and words, so that you can prove you've reached the degree you claim, or exact similar proof from another.

There are also a few teachings sprinkled throughout the various degrees that are considered "secret", although when closely examined, you usually find it's either well-known or it's meaningless nonsense. The Masonic order uses such fake "secrets" as carrots on a string, ensuring that its initiates will keep paying dues and trying to advance.

reply to post by thelonious2


These modes of recognition can be just as easily found on the internet and books . And if these secrets are "carrots" then the petitioner is joining for the wrong reason .

At no time have these "secrets" you make claim of been dangled in front of me to get me to advance through the degrees . I continue to pay dues because I like being a Mason , I like the fellowship with my brethren , I like conferring degrees , I love the ritual so on and so forth .

What you found meaningless , I find value . So be it .

Originally posted by whenandwhere

These modes of recognition can be just as easily found on the internet and books . And if these secrets are "carrots" then the petitioner is joining for the wrong reason .

The petitioner joins, at least supposedly, because he seeks "light". The Masonic institution lies to him by telling him he can find it in the lodge.

reply to post by thelonious2


Because you did not find anything of value , does not mean other will not . This speaks more about you than it does Freemasonry . I found many things of value within the Fraternity .

Originally posted by whenandwhere

Because you did not , does not mean other will not . This speaks more about you than it does Freemasonry . I found many things of value within the Fraternity .

Then by all means, please share. When I first began questioning Freemasonry, I directed this same exact question to other Masons, but no one was able to give a logical answer. What sort of light did you find in Masonry that you lacked before you were initiated?

Masonry claims to "take good men and make them better". How exactly does it do this?

When I say I was a Mason for 20 years, I don't mean card-carrier. I was very active. I'm a Past Master in the Blue Lodge. I received the Southern Jurisdiction's 33rd degree. I was a KYCH in the York Rite, and held the invitational degrees there. And I was active in all these bodies without exception, and served in the east in most of them. I'm very familiar with them, the "light" they claim to offer, and what they really do offer once it's stripped down to its basics.

Originally posted by thelonious2

Originally posted by whenandwhere

These modes of recognition can be just as easily found on the internet and books . And if these secrets are "carrots" then the petitioner is joining for the wrong reason .

The petitioner joins, at least supposedly, because he seeks "light". The Masonic institution lies to him by telling him he can find it in the lodge.

What if one finds the light in a lodge,

Is this your issue and reason why leaving masonry? Obviously if you complain about time wasted to memorize nonsense as you call it.

It might not have been the correct path for you but you can only speak for you and your experiences, as whenandwhere pointed out other might find great value and personal discovery being a part of masonry.

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

What if one finds the light in a lodge,

That's the person I would like to talk to. That's the person that, for whatever reason, just can't be found.

Noob here. I am not (yet) a Mason, but am awaiting initiation. My father is a past WM, and my grandfather and many relatives arewere also members. However, on my way to petitining the lodge, I did a fair bit of homework so that I may make an educated choice.

As a non-Mason at the time of this writing, here's my take: As I wrote yesterday in my introduction post, what I think is being missed here, and is missed frequently discussions like this, is that the "light" referred to doesn't mean spiritual light. It doesn't mean that someone who was Christian before coming to the lodge had been "in the dark" spiritually, but rather it refers to the "light" of (Masonic) knowledge (as in "shedding some light" on it).

Because Masonry uses so much allegory and metaphor, the rituals and teachings are there to inspire thought, to encourage members to ponder on the teachings and apply them in their own way, in order to find that "knowledge" for themselves. It WILL be different things to different men. There's no way to say what it will mean to you, BUT if an individual is unable or unwilling to see deeper into the teachings than what's on the surface, or to take anything from them, it does say more about the individual than the teachings.

reply to post by thelonious2


So you have attempted to question every Freemason alive? only this justifies making such a statement

It seems you challenged yourself but were not up for the challenge you set for yourself.

Masonry claims to "take good men and make them better". How exactly does it do this?

From your experience it doesn't, Look at ATS, claims made left, right and centre. We are lucky if only a small portion of the centre claim is backed by anything tangible, same goes for anything/one making any claim without logic, reason and evidence to back it up, take it as it is and do not invest belief if there are any doubts.

I'm very familiar with them, the "light" they claim to offer, and what they really do offer once it's stripped down to its basics.

Well as person who believes in standing on ones own two feet when being offered something so profound I know I am being lifted so as to not be able to stand on my 2 feet and when my feet touch ground again I will forget how to walk. Do not accept or envy that which you do not understand.

reply to post by thelonious2


We can not make a man better who can not or does not want to improve himself . The tools are presented to each Mason , but he is tasked to apply them to his own life . It is NOT OUR job to hold your (meaning the candidate) hand and tell you (the candidate) what you "should" be taking away from the teachings of Masonry . You either take the time to study and ponder on it yourself or it will all be lost on you . Which it obviously was on you .

Later when I have more time , I will elaborate on what I gleaned from the rituals of Freemasonry thus far .

Originally posted by IslandMason

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Because Masonry uses so much allegory and metaphor, the rituals and teachings are there to inspire thought, to encourage members to ponder on the teachings and apply them in their own way, in order to find that "knowledge" for themselves. It WILL be different things to different men. There's no way to say what it will mean to you, BUT if an individual is unable or unwilling to see deeper into the teachings than what's on the surface, or to take anything from them, it does say more about the individual than the teachings.

Actually, each of the symbols and allegories have very specific meanings. You will generally not learn them in the blue lodge, since those rituals are based on the Webb / Cross lectures.

Originally posted by whenandwhere


We can not make a man better who can not or does not want to improve himself . The tools are presented to each Mason , but he is tasked to apply them to his own life . It is NOT OUR job to hold your (meaning the candidate) hand and tell you (the candidate) what you "should" be taking away from the teachings of Masonry . You either take the time to study and ponder on it yourself or it will all be lost on you . Which it obviously was on you .

Again, I know what the teachings of Freemasonry are. My question was, what light did you receive in Masonry that you lacked before your initiation?

Originally posted by InhaleExhale

So you have attempted to question every Freemason alive?

No. And since you are in Australia, your own experience may differ widely from mine. For example, you hopefully are being spared the blatant racism that goes on in American lodges, especially in the US south. Hopefully you are being spared most of the hypocrisy that I've encountered at every level and order of the fraternity, but on that point, I sort of doubt it.

It seems you challenged yourself but were not up for the challenge you set for yourself.

Interesting. Instead of approaching my question honestly, you take a back-handed swipe at me personally. Of course, this is what I expect from Freemasons, it's how they operate. It's how *I* operated when I belonged to the cult. Every criticism of Masonry, regardless of how obviously true it is, must be silenced. And the best way to silence a critic of Masonry is to avoid his argument and attack his character instead. That way, the truth about Masonry gets lost in the endless bickering back and forth.

I didn't expect to make friends of any Masons here. I have nothing personal against any of you guys on this forum, but I'm hoping my own experiences will be helpful to those considering joining, and people who have loved ones that are Masons. And if what I say can at least cause a Mason to pause and reflect, then it's been a good day.

reply to post by thelonious2


Sorry if I gave the impression I am a member of masonry, I am not, just find masonry and the wild speculation surrounding it interesting.

Interesting. Instead of approaching my question honestly, you take a back-handed swipe at me personally. Of course, this is what I expect from Freemasons, it's how they operate. It's how *I* operated when I belonged to the cult. Every criticism of Masonry, regardless of how obviously true it is, must be silenced. And the best way to silence a critic of Masonry is to avoid his argument and attack his character instead.

Your question requires no approach as you have asked me none,

I replied to you saying

That's the person I would like to talk to. That's the person that, for whatever reason, just can't be found.

by asking if you have spoken to every mason alive, otherwise its an ignorant statement is it not?

If by question you mean the one you asked after quoting whenandwhere, well if you choose to see it as a swipe or attack I am just dumbfounded and can only respond by saying you gave us the answer you were asking for by posting your experience as being a mason.

You asked How masonry takes a good man and makes him better?

I assumed you were getting at that it doesn't and pointed it out and gave an example of how any claim should taken very lightly and one should not invest anything important simply on claims alone.

Sorry for the misunderstanding