Peril from 'patriots'

Peril from 'patriots'

There are, in increasingly frightening numbers, cells of angry men in the United States preparing for combat with the U.S. government. They are usually heavily armed, blinded by an intractable hatred, often motivated by religious zeal.

They're not jihadists. They are white, right-wing Americans, nearly all with an obsessive attachment to guns, who may represent a greater danger to the lives of American civilians than international terrorists.

The Southern Poverty Law Center, which has been tracking hate groups for 30 years, released its latest report on the growth of these organizations this week. Its findings were, to say the least, alarming. The center divides its subjects into militias, which are mostly groups of weekend warriors who train for combat against imaginary foes; hate groups, which target minorities; and "patriot" groups, whose beef is with the U.S. government. Patriot groups first began surfacing after the massacre of a bizarre sect by federal agents in Waco, Texas, in the early 1990s. They showed their teeth in 1995, when a patriot adherent blew up the federal building in Oklahoma City.

www.latimes.com...


Funny how this editorial talks about hatred, when the entire article oozes with it. So let me get this straight - If you value the Constitution, smaller government and fiscal responsibility and feel the administration is running the country into third world status then your a terrorist? Won't even bother getting into the SPLC report - just more pseudo-scientific nonsense from the leftist propaganda machine.

I even see they are still using the Oklahoma City bombing to demonize the liberty movement. What, one incident of extremism? You can not base an entire ideology on the acts of one act of extremism - but why let such an event go to waste? Just like the Sandy Hook.....

But just take a look at the end part and take note of what is coming.....

These groups should be closely monitored, with resources adequate to the task, even if it means shifting some homeland security money from the hunt for foreign terrorists.

reply to post by MidnightTide


Frightening, huh? Our government and our free press both betray the ideals of this nation and its constitution... and then demonize anyone who disagrees.

This kind of rhetoric from the media does nothing but further exasperate the situation and give foundation and credence to those who feel that there is cause to prepare for the worst.

reply to post by MidnightTide

You know, it's much of the same language we all heard from George Bush with the 'You're with us or against us' nonsense. He clarified that was as much directed internally as outside the U.S. for tolerance and such. I thought it was among the scariest and most disturbing examples of "Bushisms" and general Bush Doctrine too.

It's no better hearing it from the other side and if some would be thinking 'turn about is fair play' for returning an approach that was wrong to begin with? Well... I'd look around the world at other tit-for-tat situations that have carried on in ever lower levels for decades. That's stinkin' thinkin' as I've heard it phrased.

Political disagreement is supposed to be what our nation embraces, protects and nourishes. Even when wrong. So says the very first Right explained in the Bill of Rights, correct? So where doesn't this come in as hate speech as much as anything from the other direction? It's demonizing a class of political speech and disagreement, right? Odd how all that works...

reply to post by MidnightTide


Let's state the obvious...

1. The SPLC is Jewish owned and operated. The SPLC has heavy ties to Israel.

2. Israel dictates to the SPLC what is good for Israel and gives the SPLC its marching orders.

3. If old white men have an armed revolution to take our constitutional government back, it will adversely affect the goals and ambitions of the SPLC (Israel).

4. If said revolution is successful, then the state of Israel is SOL from lack of funding and possible disregarding of treaties.

5. If israel is defunded, then the millions of dollars of campaign funds dry up for the top senators and congressmen currently serving US.

6. An armed revolution, thusly, is bad for the SPLC and Israel.

7. IMHO, an armed revolution would be good for America.

Sounds like a Jeff Foxworthy bit.

If you love the Constitution. . .
If you adhere to individuality. . .
If you enjoy a smaller government. . .


Then you might be a terrorist!

I wonder if the SPLC feels the same way about the New Black Panther Party? It'd be interesting to see if they would include the NBPP as a terrorist group as well. OH WAIT, that would be racist!

reply to post by MidnightTide


IMO, you guys are missing the boat on this one. This isn't about Israel. It isn't about the Constitution. It's about getting rid of the guns.

Sandy Hook, the parading of children, and 24/7 Piers Morgan specials didn't have the effect the gov (both sides BTW) were hoping. Their gun legislature movement has been stalled and even expanded BCs seem to be off the table now.

So, they are trying the same tract that worked in the 90's. Gun owners are all somehow extremist and part of a militia movement. They are also trying to get the immunity that gun manufacturers have against frivilous lawsuits overturned, so the can start to try to bankrupt them.

Don't fall for the "two-party" paradigm rhetoric and let them bait you through your ideological or religious beliefs . . . however, it seems it's working on most of America. The louder you protest . . . the stronger their case becomes. Don't let them have "militia", "revolution", "crazy" soundbites to work with.

Originally posted by MidnightTide
Peril from 'patriots'

I even see they are still using the Oklahoma City bombing to demonize the liberty movement. What, one incident of extremism? You can not base an entire ideology on the acts of one act of extremism - but why let such an event go to waste? Just like the Sandy Hook.....

If you can remember, the first 2-3 days after the OKC bombing the "media" was blaming "middle eastern terrorists" and even tried to make the link to "al-Qaeda" and correlate it to the first WTC bombing. When that didn't work . . . they came up with the cover story of a single "militia" member and a truck bomb. Even though, there are still live reports that say that there were 2 explosions and they found two other bombs in the wreckage. Heck . . . you can even google for the USGS seismograph readings that show two explosions.

There are still news clips available out there to back this up . . . however, I can't find any on youtube that mention anything other than the correlation to WTC and multiple bombs found. I really wish I had saved the national report where Connie Chung talks about the certainty of the middle east connection and a "group called al-Qaeda".

Prior poster is correct regarding the plot to blow up the Murrah Building in OKC. The APB that went out on the afternoon of the Murrah Building Explosion was for 3 sketches. One was matched to McVeigh, The second was matched to Nichols, and the third was withdrwan. It was of a "hispanic or middle eastern male, clean shaven" in military fatigues.

The were "identified body parts, including a limb"; that was buried four years later. Read between the lines and it is evident that there was an "extra" body found in the rubble, but no one else in the USA was missing that would account for the unclaimed body parts. They were originally buried in the casket of a known victim by the FBI; but the medical examiner stopped them from burying what was obviously evidence.

1999 Chicago Tribune article

It was odd, how quickly they tallied up everyone who was missing with a body. Some people weren't even expected to be at the site--deliverymen, repair personell, etc. But someone else was there, someone with no grieving mother or girlfriend; someone with no college dean or commanding officer to report them missing; not even a boss who noticed that the person disappeared on the same day in April ... in other words, someone with zero social connections that were severed by him being killed in a bomb attack....

The militia movement was scrutinized by both the law enforcement and the press. One of the groups Nichols was attached to readily helped the federals with their case, so horrified they were by the heinous act. But not one of them was missing a hispanic or middle eastern male.

That's odd.

"They are white, right-wing Americans, nearly all with an obsessive attachment to guns, who may represent a greater danger to the lives of American civilians than international terrorists."

More reason not to listen to a damn word they say.

Attacking the white man. Wow- so suprised.


The real terrorists are the ones who publish articles such as this one.

The LA Times rarely misses an opportunity to paint middle America as a bunch of gun crazed hillbillies. Those of us who pay more into the economy than any other group we are now the terrorists because we have enough money to buy guns, and we have enough money to store food, we also have enough money to pump money into organizations like Campaign for Liberty to lobby for our rights.

We are terrorists because we are not going to roll over and give them a free victory without a fight at every level we can bring to the table. We bite. Watch Out.

As soon as you hear "Right-wing" along with "Motivated by religious zeal." in that article, you can automatically tell it's some liberal propaganda garbage.

I hope people aren't taking those whack jobs seriously.

reply to post by Lingweenie


The problem is that there ARE people who take these wackjobs seriously. There are still people in the US who believe that they don't lie on the news or make up stories. I'm not right-wing or a religious zealot yet I AM pro-gun and pro-liberty.

You know that article is wrong about something, the government is already actively redirecting resources from looking for foreign terrorists to looking for domestic freedom fighters.

reply to post by MidnightTide


It just is fairly distressing to think that just being a rather normal, well adjusted, American just going about one's business, is somehow criminal behavior.

Talk about inverted values.

They seem to think that bad things are good and good things are bad.

I can only say that if these evil idiots push us hard enough to start, or that they start, genuine hostilities, that we maintain our resolve to wipe them out to the last man without quarter or mercy.

Ridding ourselves of them completely will lead to a more peaceful coexistence for us all.

These people JUST ARE enemies of the state, though that is what they would call us.

How would morons them them, even know?

Pure absurdity.

Well, when "normal, well-adjusted Americans" join sects and cults armed with assault weapons enough to put a small town out, playing cloak and dagger, being afraid that the "government" persecutes them, you have two possible logical cases:

1. these guys are actually not far from terrorists, even though they are not in turbans and do not use prayer rugs
2. there is a revolution fomenting from an obviously oppressive power like King Louis in France or the British Crown taxing the colonies.

In the latter case, you'd better provide damn good proof that the entire government is hijacked, that it has been used against a clearly overwhelming majority of the residents (not merely 40, 50 or 60 percent, but almost everyone, as was the case of Colonists versus the Crown) for the purposes of a small, parasitical group. And if you do prove your case by facts and objective political arguments, of course you can expect a new constitution to be drawn up - just like in the two cases cited above.

The only problem I see with Alternative 2 here is that - despite its acknowledged shortcomings - this is no government of hereditary parasites and exploiters of "the people", this is a government elected by a majority. Which does not mean it could or should enforce the will of the majority against obvious minority dissent, however, it weakens the case for an armed revolution - how can you revolt against your own countrymen who number the same as you if not more? That would not be a revolution, it would be called rightly a civil war.

Which is an entirely different case...

reply to post by Kokatsi


Neither can you attest that there is no "normal, well-adjusted Americans" or pretend that you do NOT know what that is.

On this:

"1. these guys are actually not far from terrorists, even though they are not in turbans and do not use prayer rugs "

I cannot agree. In what imaginary world would someone who believes he must protect himself from errant entities be considered a "Terrorist"? ONLY IN TODAY'S BUFFOON WORLD is the answer. Just because people make up terms and try to convince or actually convince you, doesn't mean that what they have said is either the Truth or Actual, but rather the BOOGIE MAN that the guilty ALWAYS invoke in order to cover their own tracks to make themselves look special in a certain light.

HERE... watch the hand puppet while my finger goes up your butt!

Th IDIOTS of our society believe every UNQUALIFIED statement they hear without challenge. So basically you tell them anything you want, and IF it invokes their emotions... they will believe iy just like that foolish emotional slave pointed out since Parmenedes. For thousands of years, stupid and gullible people have remained so, without exception.

And THIS:

"2. there is a revolution fomenting from an obviously oppressive power like King Louis in France or the British Crown taxing the colonies. "

If you look more closely and look at the policies of King George, you can easily see that we turned nearly 360 degrees back to THOSE actions, which place us in the nearly same conditions that began the revolution. The reign of the Corporations, Oppression with the use of troops (call it DHS now) irrational taxation. (Ale, beer, wheat, honey, the Stamp Act etc..

Madison, Jay and others told us this would come if we were not vigilant. They spelled out ALL the earmarks and ALL of our politicians have those earmarks. Almost NONE are worthy of their position, another insistence of the founders.

I think that the statistics say that only 10% of American Colonists fought the Revolution.

I have written a book called" King George's Beard, which NO "book agent" aka "PUXXY" will touch. It is NON inflamatory and simply lays out FACTS and is provided with rational solutions.

There IS some philosophic aka Logical discussion on important points which give the reader some thing to ponder, but you will never read it. The Anti-Americans against the free flow of information and thought, have guaranteed it.

I studied the Federalist Papers with intensity and use many many quotes that readers can actually find for themselves.

There is some discussion on why Billy Bob should not just jump out on the porch and start "shooting at the government", and specifically why Corporationists should not be allowed into Government as the Founders actually THOUGHT and why it is bad today.


So my biggest fear is that Hostilities will actually start plunging us in to Instant and Long Term complete Chaos.

It does not matter if some Militia Group starts it or if Homeland Security does. It will turn us all upside down
DHS is so weak that we will wipe them out quickly, fools, but Chaos will still keep going.

Think of the supply train for ALL things. Your Meds, Your Food, your Ammo, your Peace, your general safety! The power grid! Your ability to have gasoline. It ALL GOES DOWN.

The leadership must be killed off NOW, discreetly and one at a time if necessary. That does NOT mean our president but all the other bastaxds.

NO... I won't be the one. I am NOT capable because of physical limitations. dammitt

There are 3 positions, at base, that any governing body can BE in relation to it's charges, the citizenry.

It can be it's friend, in which case it will simply enable the needs of the people and make no laws contrary to it's flourishing, it's general pursuit.

It can be Neutral, in which case it does not do a really good, yet possibly livable, job of taking care of those needs.

It can be the populace's enemy in which case it's only concern is it's OWN survival against the populace.

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Frightening, huh? Our government and our free press both betray the ideals of this nation and its constitution... and then demonize anyone who disagrees.

This kind of rhetoric from the media does nothing but further exasperate the situation and give foundation and credence to those who feel that there is cause to prepare for the worst.

The people they demonize sit around on forums and talk about shooting them and starting civil wars. Of course these are them same people who are to damn lazy to go out and vote or run for and office and make a change the way the founders intended. They would rather sit around and polish up their guns and talk about how they are the ones under threat.

reply to post by MidnightTide

So let me get this straight - If you value the Constitution, smaller government and fiscal responsibility and feel the administration is running the country into third world status then your a terrorist?

No, that doesn't make you a terrorist.

But if you start hoarding guns, training with a group of like minded people in weapons on how to fight off or overthrow the government...then that makes you a potential terrorist.

You can have any opinion you want...but once you pick up arms in attempt to use them as threats to get what you want...you are in fact inciting terror and thus you are a terrorist.

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by redoubt
reply to post by MidnightTide

 

Frightening, huh? Our government and our free press both betray the ideals of this nation and its constitution... and then demonize anyone who disagrees.

This kind of rhetoric from the media does nothing but further exasperate the situation and give foundation and credence to those who feel that there is cause to prepare for the worst.

The people they demonize sit around on forums and talk about shooting them and starting civil wars. Of course these are them same people who are to damn lazy to go out and vote or run for and office and make a change the way the founders intended. They would rather sit around and polish up their guns and talk about how they are the ones under threat.

Hi guy!

I'm sure there ARE people with the proper intention that actually can afford to get in there and their intent IS to steer things right again. I think that they get overwhelmed and marginalized fairly quickly by the people who actually hold some kind of "power" up there. I have read in the past there have been even groups who merged to try to steer things the right direction, but there simply are not enough of them, I think, to actually make a difference. They keep getting shouted down and/or out voted. Pretty sad.

So I think the response "Why don't you run for office" (basically) while good sounding, is not practical.

I don't mind people keeping their guns cleaned and oiled. They should. I just don't know how far we ought to allow our thought processes and scenario building to go.

This "terrorist" crap is simply the over use of a word, modernly. It now seems to be "anyone you don't like or could IMAGINE yourself being afraid of them". Socrates was right ... we should never listen to public opinion, they come up with too much foolishness. THEN... they take a left turn and change their mind....