This unbelievable video just made the front page of AOL.com

This debate goes more and more in the direction to blame "the billionaires" and the "elite", and yes we certainly know they exist and as the video shows those hold a tremendous amount of wealth.

But THIS IS NOT THE PROBLEM.

There will always be people born "rich", people born into wealth by heritage etc.etc.

The real problem is how those COULD GET rich and also how the more normal people (those not born into billions at the second from birth), company founders, CEOs etc. can get rich - the problem is THE SYSTEM.

The problem is that with globalization every company has the liberty to manufacture and outsource, choose the cheapest 3rd world country where they build their production facilities and the cheapest workers/laborers from 3rd world countries who will do the work for them, abroad.

Even worse, we then (have to) buy all the cr@p manufactured cheaply in such countries because we don't have the effing money anymore - so it's an endless cycle.

The problem is that the system ALLOWS this, I mean money and jobs are obviously flowing OUT of the country because it is a way for a company to be/stay profitable (by saving costs). But it backfires and will be our demise if there is no laws/regulations.

Edit: So..let's assume the government would at some point really make laws/regulations which forbids manufacturing and outsourcing jobs abroad, THEN you can wait how voices would be screaming "Socialist!!!" since the government would regulate how companies would have to conduct their business which some would *certainly* interpret as "socialist" if the gvt tells them what is allowed or not. But it HAS to happen, IMO.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Hundreds of thousands of companies across every state in the US getting millions, some billions, mostly untracked and unfollowable. The report stated US local governments give away $9.1 million per hour and $80.4 billion per year in business incentives.

The rest of the 7 trillion is probably in a few places, war probably, secret tech, pay offs etc.

Your source material focused on local government incentives. Not federal money. Again, how much local money incentive giveaways can ever account for 7 trillion of FEDERAL dollars. You're not even talking about federal money.

Originally posted by kalisdad

Originally posted by Blue_Jay33

They could issue a flat tax, no deductions for family incomes over $250,000 at 12%.
Any family income under 36K a year no tax, build the middle class back up. And encourage families to raise there kids instead of working. Then build a flat tax system tiered, 50K at 3% for example this would include state and federal taxes. Simple solutions to create equality that will never be adopted.

why have an income tax at all?
it seems to me, that a national sales tax would make more sense. you make $30,000 a year, you get taxed on what you spend. make $1,500,000 a year, you get taxed on what you spend.

taxation on wages is an awful idea, especially with the loopholes that are allowed.

and I don't even want to think about the subsidise that these billion dollar industres are getting...

www.businessweek.com...

Here in Canada, we are taxed at an average of about 40% on our salaries and have an average tax of 15% when we buy goods. On gas, cigarettes and alcohol its even more.

We are taxed to the bone and I'm used to break my car in potholes at least one time each year. Where are our f***ing taxes going? In the pockets of big business who needs to be bailed out ...

Businesses, have all kinds of loopholes and I'm pretty sure the biggest ones don't pay their fair share of taxes. They are also the ones that exploit our natural ressources at very little cost to sell them overseas. The entire country should be profiting of any natural ressource found on or in our soil, not big corporations.

I believe it's almost the same in the US but you are lucky you don't have to pay that much taxes for that little in return.

By the way i have a good job and am happy with what I have, i don't need more, simply i just can't stand that these corps exploit every aspect of our lives and yet, they are ok with that or want even more.

Peace out.

Originally posted by NorEaster

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Hundreds of thousands of companies across every state in the US getting millions, some billions, mostly untracked and unfollowable. The report stated US local governments give away $9.1 million per hour and $80.4 billion per year in business incentives.

The rest of the 7 trillion is probably in a few places, war probably, secret tech, pay offs etc.

Your source material focused on local government incentives. Not federal money. Again, how much local money incentive giveaways can ever account for 7 trillion of FEDERAL dollars. You're not even talking about federal money.

I never gave any estimate as to HOW MUCH of the 7 trillion was spent on incentives, I said some was possibly in part, go read the post again.

Here's the quote.

The trillions unaccounted for are possibly in part from untraceable grants and tax incentives that aren't followed, hundreds of millions for many companies in many states.

That aside, Federal money is still government money given in the form of grants etc and these companies use loopholes in attaining such grants.

en.wikipedia.org...

In the United States, federal grants are economic aid issued by the United States government out of the general federal revenue. A federal grant is an award of financial assistance from a federal agency to a recipient to carry out a public purpose of support or stimulation authorized by a law of the United States.
Grants are federal assistance or loans to individuals, benefits or entitlements. A grant is not used to acquire property or services for the federal government's direct benefit.
Grants may also be issued by private non-profit organizations such as foundations, not-for-profit corporations or charitable trusts which are all collectively referred to as charities.
Outside the United States grants, subventions or subsidies are used to in similar fashion by government or private charities to subsidize programs and projects that fit within the funding criteria of the grant-giving entity or donor. Grants can be unrestricted, to be used by the recipient in any fashion within the perimeter of the recipient organization's activities or they may be restricted to a specific purpose by the benefactor.
Federal grants are defined and governed by the Federal Grant and Cooperative Agreement Act of 1977, as incorporated in Title 31 Section 6304 of the U.S. Code. A Federal grant is a:
"...legal instrument reflecting the relationship between the United States Government and a State, a local government, or other entity when 1) the principal purpose of the relationship is to transfer a thing of value to the State or local government or other recipient to carry out a public purpose of support or stimulation authorized by a law of the United States instead of acquiring (by purchase, lease, or barter) property or services for the direct benefit or use of the United States Government; and 2) substantial involvement is not expected between the executive agency and the State, local government, or other recipient when carrying out the activity contemplated in the agreement."
When an awarding agency expects to be substantially involved in a project (beyond routine monitoring and technical assistance), the law requires use of a cooperative agreement instead. When the government is procuring goods or services for its own direct benefit, and not for a broader public purpose, the law requires use of a federal contract.[1]

The US Federal Grants even offers a program to allow companies to ''test the waters'' of foreign soil for their company and will even pay for various trade lessons for example in Russia.
export.gov...

How $16 trillion was ''given'' to various banks etc.
theintelhub.com...

Nevertheless, the results of the first audit in the Federal Reserve’s nearly 100 year history were posted on Senator Sander’s webpage earlier this morning.
What was revealed in the audit was startling:
$16,000,000,000,000.00 had been secretly given out to US banks and corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland.
From the period between December 2007 and June 2010, the Federal Reserve had secretly bailed out many of the world’s banks, corporations, and governments. The Federal Reserve likes to refer to these secret bailouts as an all-inclusive loan program, but virtually none of the money has been returned and it was loaned out at 0% interest.
Why the Federal Reserve had never been public about this or even informed the United States Congress about the $16 trillion dollar bailout is obvious – the American public would have been outraged to find out that the Federal Reserve bailed out foreign banks while Americans were struggling to find jobs.
To place $16 trillion into perspective, remember that GDP of the United States is only $14.12 trillion. The entire national debt of the United States government spanning its 200+ year history is “only” $14.5 trillion.
The budget that is being debated so heavily in Congress and the Senate is “only” $3.5 trillion. Take all of the outrage and debate over the $1.5 trillion deficit into consideration, and swallow this Red pill: There was no debate about whether $16,000,000,000,000 would be given to failing banks and failing corporations around the world.
In late 2008, the TARP Bailout bill was passed and loans of $800 billion were given to failing banks and companies. That was a blatant lie considering the fact that Goldman Sachs alone received 814 billion dollars.

As is turns out, the Federal Reserve donated $2.5 trillion to Citigroup, while Morgan Stanley received $2.04 trillion. The Royal Bank of Scotland and Deutsche Bank, a German bank, split about a trillion and numerous other banks received hefty chunks of the $16 trillion.

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

That aside, Federal money is still government money given in the form of grants etc and these companies use loopholes in attaining such grants.

I think that we agree that companies are the ones who get nearly all of the money that pours out of our Federal Treasury. And the big companies get the lion's share.

reply to post by NorEaster


OP just used "influential" and "front page of AOL.com" in the same sentence. 10/10 excellent troll.

reply to post by NorEaster


Whilst the Federal Reserve is structured as it is, basically a group if private banks that run the US currency (it has been said, to it's own gain at the expense of the economic profit of the people) with limited transparency and a continued spiral of loan / debt situations whilst essentially funding itself and businesses that are chosen for such funds, creating inflation rates and having essentially a firm hold of the US monetary system, the 1% scenario was / is inevitable.

While these private banks remain private there will never be any real transparency because they aren't subject to the same transparency laws as the government.

There are far too many loopholes being exploited that takes from the people and gives greatly to traders and corporate entities.

www.stopoilspeculators.com...

Speculators and investment banks can game the energy trading markets, using loopholes in commodities law to drive up the cost of energy and reap record profits… at the expense of American families and small businesses!

One of the biggest factors in high oil prices, according to many experts, is that investors, such as hedge funds and investment bankers, can use loopholes in commodities law to manipulate the market and drive crude oil, heating oil, gasoline and diesel fuel prices to new heights.

Congress is aware of the problem and lawmakers recently passed legislation to address the “Enron Loophole,” one of the major loopholes that opens the door to abusive trading practices, but the law didn’t go far enough.

Unfortunately, other loopholes exist that allow energy trading on completely “dark” exchanges. For example, the “Foreign Markets Loophole” allows American energy commodities to be traded overseas – exempt from U.S. oversight.

Federal Reserve System

The Federal Reserve Banks have an intermediate legal status, with some features of private corporations and some features of public federal agencies. The United States has an interest in the Federal Reserve Banks as tax-exempt federally created instrumentalities whose profits belong to the federal government, but this interest is not proprietary.[78] In Lewis v. United States,[79] the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit stated that: "The Reserve Banks are not federal instrumentalities for purposes of the FTCA [the Federal Tort Claims Act], but are independent, privately owned and locally controlled corporations." The opinion went on to say, however, that: "The Reserve Banks have properly been held to be federal instrumentalities for some purposes." Another relevant decision is Scott v. Federal Reserve Bank of Kansas City,[78] in which the distinction is made between Federal Reserve Banks, which are federally created instrumentalities, and the Board of Governors, which is a federal agency.

The Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System, the Federal Reserve banks, and the individual member banks undergo regular audits by the GAO and an outside auditor. GAO audits are limited and do not cover "most of the Fed’s monetary policy actions or decisions, including discount window lending (direct loans to financial institutions), open-market operations and any other transactions made under the direction of the Federal Open Market Committee" ...[nor may the GAO audit] "dealings with foreign governments and other central banks." [82] Various statutory changes, including the Federal Reserve Transparency Act, have been proposed to broaden the scope of the audits.
As of August 27, 2012, the Federal Reserve Board began publishing unaudited financial reports for the Federal Reserve banks. Reports are released every quarter.[83] This is an expansion of prior financial reporting practices. Greater transparency is offered with more frequent disclosure and more detail.
November 7, 2008, Bloomberg L.P. News brought a lawsuit against the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System to force the Board to reveal the identities of firms for which it has provided guarantees during the Late-2000s financial crisis.[84] Bloomberg, L.P. won at the trial court[85] and the Fed's appeals were rejected at both the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit and the U.S. Supreme Court. The data was released on March 31, 2011.[

The Federal Reserve System has faced various criticisms since its inception in 1913. These criticisms include the assertions that the Federal Reserve System violates the United States Constitution and that it impedes economic prosperity. Critic Miranda Fleschert contends that the twelve regional Federal Reserve banks (as opposed to the entire Federal Reserve System) consider themselves to be private corporations with private funding.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
reply to post by NorEaster

 

Scary vid I reckon the stats are more or less the same in the UK.
So what do we do about it?

We need to separate the money game from the reality of 'need'. First off, the economic system we live under is not natural; it is a game designed by man. If people are really good at the game (just like any other game: Monopoly, Life...) then let them enjoy all that they get. But, in no way should it deprive others of the necessities of life: food, safe shelter, clothing, medical care, and education. These basic necessities should be as guaranteed as the human rights every human is granted at birth.

If you wouldn't go on a vacation and leave your kids at home with nothing to eat, then why should the filthy rich be able to enjoy their lives at the expense of others? This game needs to be re-worked.

Trying to get anywhere in todays market is like trying to win at monopoly when you have joined half way through the game.

It's a very simplistic model but I think it has merit, in fact, I think a lot of similarities can be drawn from this "childrens" game and how financial markets are manipulated.

Also, it's worth looking at the role that the psychopath plays in big business and the financial sector.

Originally posted by Dawgishly
reply to post by NorEaster

 

OP just used "influential" and "front page of AOL.com" in the same sentence. 10/10 excellent troll.

Wow. You sure make each one of your posts count, don't you?

CJ

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth

"$16,000,000,000,000.00 had been secretly given out to US banks and corporations and foreign banks everywhere from France to Scotland."
theintelhub.com...

Political NonSense'^^^
Why do you bother to quote an Idiot who won't even research the claims of his Source ie Senator Sanders' site
and
Who obviously Did NOT read the 2011 GAO Federal Reserve Audit Report?
~
NO Where IN the GAO Audit is there a Mention of 16 Trillion Dollars being spent
because
That's^^^ The US Debt as of Sept. 4, 2012 ... "The U.S. 'debt clock' reached $16 trillion Sept. 4, 2012"

I read the July 2011 GAO Federal Reserve Audit Report (I'll even post a link TO the gao.gov site for ya...) and at least $8 Trillion USD IS Obviously Accounted For while many More Hundreds of Million USD went to 'smaller' Financial & Corporate institutions around the World.

The GAO reports there WERE Many Loans aka 'Bailouts' that were made 'in secret' ie without some Fed Members approval.

What The GAO Federal Reserve audit report brings to light IS This >>> The Federal Reserve Board put into effect an 'Emergency Authority' under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 authorizing The Fed to bailout foreign corporations and banks in a time of Crisis like: The Worldwide Financial MeltDown beginning in 2008...

Also, during this Worldwide Financial Meltdown, The Fed put into action The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008

The GAO Audit Findings verify that during, and after THE 2008 Financial CRISIS, Financial Assistance (some secret funding too) was allocated to Corporations and Banks around the World...

What GAO Found
www.gao.gov...

"On numerous occasions in 2008 and 2009, the Federal Reserve Board invoked emergency authority under the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 to authorize new broad-based programs
and
financial assistance to individual institutions Worldwide to stabilize financial markets.

"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac had worldwide debt and other financial obligations totaling $5.4 trillion, and their default on those obligations would have significantly disrupted the U.S. financial system."

"Through the program, the Federal Reserve Bank of New York purchased $1.25 trillion in agency mortgage-backed securities (agency MBS) in 2009 and 2010."

"Table 9 shows TAF loans for [ONLY] the top 20 borrowing Institutions total: $1.46 Trillion USD"

Just the above Loans/Guarantees total Over Half of the U.S. Debt of $16 Trillion.

More Tens or Hundreds of Million US~Dollars went to many many many Corporations & Financial Institutions around the World in order to Keep The World Economy from Completing Collapsing.
~
Thank You USA...? ~rore

reply to post by NorEaster



This isn't even remotely shocking, surprising or news to me.... anyone who sees the world as it is knows that this is how it is... and it's only going to get worse.


Despite not being surprising...It is very, very sad.


So many morons will come and defend this as ok.... as "free market and capitalism at work"

The Federal Reserve audit, some stats.

Fe deral Reserve Bailouts

According to the GAO audit, $16.1 trillion in secret loans were made by the Federal Reserve between December 1, 2007 and July 21, 2010. The following list of firms and the amount of money that they received was taken directly from page 131 of the GAO audit report….

Citigroup – $2.513 trillion
Morgan Stanley – $2.041 trillion
Merrill Lynch – $1.949 trillion
Bank of America – $1.344 trillion
Barclays PLC – $868 billion
Bear Sterns – $853 billion
Goldman Sachs – $814 billion
Royal Bank of Scotland – $541 billion
JP Morgan Chase – $391 billion
Deutsche Bank – $354 billion
UBS – $287 billion
Credit Suisse – $262 billion
Lehman Brothers – $183 billion
Bank of Scotland – $181 billion
BNP Paribas – $175 billion
Wells Fargo – $159 billion
Dexia – $159 billion
Wachovia – $142 billion
Dresdner Bank – $135 billion
Societe Generale – $124 billion
“All Other Borrowers” – $2.639 trillion

From the audit detailed here
GAO Audit


It isn't altruism, banks and the Federal Reserve don't work on such principles. It is self funding and profit making from manipulation of the stock markets of the world, the global flow of currency, the rates of inflation, the equity shares, the elicit deals etc.

Originally posted by blupblup

anyone who sees the world as it is knows that this is how it is...

So many morons will come and defend this as ok.... as "free market and capitalism at work"

An Unregulated Capitalistic Free Market is like A Snake Attempting To Eat Its Own Tail
aka
Insanity Taken to Improbable Heights.

The USA saw the results of Industry Policing Itself in the early 20th Century...
~
Captains of Industry Dictated TO the Federal Govt. How They Will Operate
~
These^^^ 'Captains' Bought & Promoted their Own Politicians
~
These 'good ol' boyz' saw no Evil in their Child Labor Practices
or
Giving Men Higher Wages then Women and Children
~
Few of These Industry Moguls offered Healthcare
or
Instituted Comprehensive Safety Programs/Regulations
or
Job Security; a Foreman could just fire an employee at will
orororthehorror
The list of Atrocities heaped upon the Working Class BY Industry in general at that time is terrifying...
~
I can barely imagine just how scary of a time that was for The Average Joe... ~roreorororthehorror

Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by NorEaster

 

This isn't even remotely shocking, surprising or news to me.... anyone who sees the world as it is knows that this is how it is... and it's only going to get worse.


Despite not being surprising...It is very, very sad.


So many morons will come and defend this as ok.... as "free market and capitalism at work"

Continuous propaganda misinforms and desensitises people to accept failure as success. Day becomes night and night becomes day. The media is owned by the ultra-rich who control everything else as well. Evil becomes a self-fullfilling prophecy implemented gradually and subtlely.

Yes it is extremely sad!

Originally posted by theabsolutetruth
The Federal Reserve audit, some stats.
Fe deral Reserve Bailouts

It isn't...

It isn't kosher for Global Research to cherry-pick information that suits Their Agenda and Leave Out the rest.

You really need to READ the GAO Audit and Not RELY ON Articles written by CT websites like Chossudovsky's Global Research site.
because
Global Research 'conveniently left out' a significant piece of information THE GAO provides us.

First, READ the pdf; start at Pg. 130 of the report ~ sub-heading ~ "Large Global Institutions Were Among the Largest Users of Several Programs" and read through to pg. 133.
www.gao.gov...

On pg. 131 is this Table 8 Note: "Institutions with Largest Total Transaction Amounts - Not Term-Adjusted

"The total dollar amounts borrowed represent the sum of all loans [including credit extensions]
and
have not been term-adjusted to reflect differences in terms to maturity for the loans."

On page 132 is this Table 9 Note: "Institutions with Largest Total Term-Adjusted Borrowing across Broad-Based Emergency Programs, December 1, 2007 through July 21, 2010"

If you are not sure what it all means, CALL THE GAO and ask them.

Go TO the Source of Reliable, Verifiable and Documented information...
~
It's the only way we can 'be sure' to get our information undiluted BY People with an Agenda; like Chossudovsky et al... ~rore

reply to post by roreagin


I am well aware of the GAO report, thanks.

Keep your advice to yourself.

I posted stats and data, it happened, regardless of terms, so stop debating things I didn't even say.

Go troll some other poster.

Where does the money come from?
We all know that the Federal Reserve CORPORATION prints money - then loans it, at interest, to our government. But wait until you see what a total scam this process is. But before we get to the meat of this issue, let's remember one thing about the very essence of banking - primarily that money should have some type of standard upon which its value is based. In the case of America, we operate on what is called a "gold standard" (i.e. our money is backed by gold).

So, with that in mind, let's look at how money is actually created, and at what cost. If the Federal Reserve wants to print 1,000 one-hundred ($100) bills, their total cost for ink, paper, plates, labor, etc. would be approximately $23.00 (according to Davvy Kidd in "Why A Bankrupt America"). Now, if you do the math, the total cost of 10,000 bills would be $230.00 ($.023 x 10,000). But, and here's the catch - 10,000 $100 bills equals $1,000,000! So, the Federal Reserve can "create" a million dollars, then LEND it to the U.S. Government (with interest) for a total cost of $230.
00! That's not a bad deal, huh!
The banking industry calls this process "seignorage." I call it outright THEFT. Why? Well, regardless of the immense profit margin ($1,000,000 for $230), plus the huge interest payments, our government then needs to STEAL the American people's money to payoff their debts via a Mob-like agency called the IRS. So the bankers steal from the government, then the government turns around and steals from the people. I'm no genius, but who do you think is getting screwed in this process? US - the people at the bottom rung of the ladder.

What's worse is that - now catch your breath - there's NO MORE gold left in Fort Knox! It's all gone. In other words, the GOLD STANDARD that our financial system was based upon is now an illusion. We can't convert our money into gold --- only other currency. The entire underlying basis for our money is now a lie - a sham. The Federal Reserve has become so arrogant that they've become a literal MONEY MAKING MACHINE, creating currency out of thin air! So that's where the Fed gets their money - they literally make it, then lend it to us so they can make even MORE money off of it.

reply to post by NorEaster



Thanks for posting this video.

It helps clarify something that's been bothering me... since the sequester took effect, the stock market has soared - I guess the destruction of society is good for business. Vulture capitalism at it's finest. Buy something cheap, sell of everything and create more destruction in the process - the American way of doing business - ain't it great.

reply to post by cornucopia


It is all a bit of a farcical charade feeding the rich at the expense of the poor.

Makes the Platinum Coin idea sound like good sense.