NATO Helicopter Kills Two Children

I put this in the "War On Terrorism" forum for a reason, that reason being is that NATO is a terrorist organization just like the Taliban they are there to kill supposedly because of 911 which I think is a load of BS.

This news is just another example of unnecessary killing due to this fake war on terror. I also find it very disturbing and I will never get used to "collateral damage" from these careless murderers whether it's death by drone strike, helicopter, or any other form of attack. Not many things anger me more than when people say "hey, it's part of war".

First off, this is not a real war, it is a brutal occupation. There is no excuse for killing children.

That being said, I am not defending the Taliban in any way shape or form, they are just as monstrous due to the way they treat their people, especially women and children due to their religious extremism.

Two boys out collecting firewood with their donkeys were killed by weapons fired from a NATO helicopter, Afghan and American military officials announced Saturday.

The victims, Toor Jan, 11, and Andul Wodood, 12, were brothers and had been walking behind their donkeys in the Shahed-e-Hasas district of Oruzgan Province when the helicopter fired on them, according to Afghan officials in the district. The two donkeys were killed as well.

General Dunford said that coalition forces had opened fire on what they thought were insurgent forces, and killed the boys by accident. “I offer my personal apology and condolences to the family of the boys who were killed,” General Dunford said. “We take full responsibility for this tragedy.”

There was some disagreement about the presence of Taliban in the area and about the details of the episode.

www.nytimes.com...

At least they apologized



I know it's a pipe dream but I would really like all this senseless killing to stop. Only when this starts happening to us and our families is when we will truly understand the error in our ways with these wars based on lies.

Not that age makes a difference when kids are hurt, but your title says they were both under 7 years old, and the article that you posted says 11 and 12 years.

Which is it?

Like i say, not that it really matters. Still very sad.

CX.

ETA: I see it's sorted now.

I fully agree that Western Forces and particularly, NATO forces, love their standoff and longer range weapons. Drones, Rockets, Bombs ..... Just about anything that allows the killing of others with little risk of numbers to report on casualties back home. Pretty cowardly and chicken crap, if anyone asks me. I can't help think back to the quotes attributed to General Patton about 'push button warfare' and think he was right in more ways than he could have known in nightmares for that time period.

Having said that... Where is the outrage when Taliban terrorists murder villagers for 'collaborating' or set up civilians to be slaughtered in the cross fire..in battles they chose the timing, ground and circumstance for? Where was the outrage when the Taliban were shooting women in the head, for sport as much as anything else, in a public stadium on such horrible crimes like teaching a female to read? The videos of their execution stadium aren't for the weak of stomach, to be sure....but were seen world wide at the time. In fact, Mullah Omar was cheeky enough to tell the UN, upon complaints about using the UN funded stadium for executing the citizenry, that if they wanted a stadium for games, they could build another one. That one was for administering justice.

It's a crappy war that never should have started and NEEDS TO END. Lets never make the bad guys out to be better than Western forces though. However bad Western forces get with animal acts, the Taliban have a PROUD and self declared history of much much worse by declared policy, and not just individuals getting outrageous or going too far.

Surely there will be chopper video footage?

Then we'll see how you can mistake insurgents for kids picking up firewood. I know the report claims the military says there was reports of insurgent activity in the area, but the chopper pilots have eyes don't they?

CX.

reply to post by CX


Yes, I accidentally used the YouTube video title which listed the incorrect age.

As for this incident it is still rather disturbing in my opinion regardless of age, as you pointed out.

This will not help NATO/Afghan relations which appear to be stressed recently but since the Afghan government are NATO puppets I see no end in sight.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Yes the Taliban are certainly evil, but so are the invading forces. Not all, but many of these soldiers take pride in killing "rag heads". Do you remember the video where they urinated on the dead "insurgent"?

I would post it but it would get removed due to terms and conditions violation.

Who are you to decide who the "bad guy" is?

The bad guy is the one who invaded a country for reasons based on lies.

At least we agree that this "war" should never have happened.

I find that your justification of using this type of warfare trivializes these deaths and puts the situation in the incorrect context. They should not be there in the first place so I can careless whether or not they are "safe". Please keep in mind I have a family member who was wounded over there by an IED and I'm sad to say it, but he had it coming for being there.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Thats the part that keeps coming up... Mistaken identity. Suspicious behavior.

Oh, they didn't look like kids gathering firewood at night? How could you tell? You were so far away...

when this was reported on BBC radio earlier today it gave the ages of the boys as seven, to give a little context to what was asked earlier.
and this is well placed in the terrorism section, going around killing kids who in the west would only just have started senior school is indeed an act of terror, there's no excuse for such a "mistake" bar "we dont give a s### about these people's lives"

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Sometimes, bad guys don't need anyone else to identify them. They make that distinction all by themselves.

The grass has grown in Kabul's soccer stadium where the Taliban used to stage public executions, but few Afghans dare visit in the evenings, believing that the souls of the victims still roam the sprawling grounds.

"Too much blood has flown here," says Mohammad Nasim as he mowed the lush green grass in the stadium under a warm afternoon sun, a little oasis ringed by brown hills away from the bustle of the street.

The goalposts, where the black-turbaned Taliban used to force convicts to kneel before executing them or from which they hung the severed arms or legs of thieves for all to see, have been given a fresh coat of white paint.

Source

GRAPHIC: Taliban Executes Woman

In that one, Taliban Commanders were apparently known to have been messing with the woman. Painful way to have them break up, eh? Woman never have seen treatment improve much within Taliban controlled areas. They're still 2nd class and something near the level of dogs to those men.

I take a different tack as I'm related to U.S. Marines and some folk who have been or are in the U.S. Army. Including combat tours over there. Yeah.... Western forces have gotten out of hand and some atrocities have happened. There is a big difference though.... We have new occupants of Fort Leavenworth, Kansas to show for the ones we catch and prove went too far. When was the last time the Taliban was even known to discipline a solider/fighter for abuse of a civilian?

Some see relativism and grounds to equate U.S. and Western Forces with Taliban terrorists.... I don't..and never will. We need to end this war for everyone's sake but I still feel for the people of Afghanistan. Their war will never end, it seems ...and it was going on long before we got there. It'll be going long after we leave, too.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The evil ways of the Taliban does not justify this incident Wrabbit. The incident you provided in your post is gruesome and angers me as well, but I can easily mention incidents of NATO forces raping and massacring women and children too but that will not justify the incident in my OP.

I acknowledged the Taliban is evil, are you willing to admit that the global banking cartel war machine is evil too?

ETA: I am not saying all soldiers are evil, the war machine in principal is what I meant. Though, I will point out that anyone participating in these wars lacks logic or has been mislead. A wholesome person would not be over there participating in these crimes. No one put a gun to there head and made them go there, they had the option to say no even though there may be consequences.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Just two this time? Congratulations are in order.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


If this had happened to British or American children, your thread would have 300 stars in 5 minutes...

our helicopters are top notch, and can gun people down from miles away in complete darkness. how could they have mistaken children for terrorists? how would two grown men with donkeys walking along constitute terrorism anyways?

no assault helicopter ban on the horizon though, because the government sure knows how to use lethal weapons properly

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

Just two this time? Congratulations are in order.

I'm certainly glad that there weren't more of them, it would have made them look more "suspicious" and the death toll would most likely be higher.

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes
reply to post by Corruption Exposed

 

If this had happened to British or American children, your thread would have 300 stars in 5 minutes...

A lot of people have trouble realizing that people in Afghanistan are humans too. As a society we have been desensitized where it only matters if it happens in our back yard or to someone we know. Many of us have been conditioned to accept this as "collateral damage" and still find reason to consider these people heroes.

Well if the leaders are to be believed the troops are leaving next year. I wonder if they already have plans for a different deployment.

I put this in the "War On Terrorism" forum for a reason, that reason being is that NATO is a terrorist organization just like the Taliban they are there to kill supposedly

Right.

This is a jungle and NATO has bigger horns.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


They haven't desensitised me. If anything, I feel more for the children in the Middle East than I do for the children of our own countries. Why? Because they don't understand why this technology is randomly killing them. At least our children are informed to the horrors of this world...

reply to post by Corruption Exposed
On the specific incident here? I'm going to say we need to know what exactly happened before convicting OR excusing the crew that did it. The locals paint a picture like the helicopter was just out randomly hunting and came upon two warm bodies with donkeys to open fire on. The helicopter crew would seem to have felt justified at the time they fired. ...and interestingly enough, the article notes that a similar incident caused Karzai to restrict Afghan local forces from calling in Coalition air power. So ... What aren't we being told here?

Was this Helicopter called in by Afghan ground forces? I don't see enough to know that....but Karzai's reaction to another recent one in the article might sure suggest it. Could the gunship have been responding to what they were being told was far more than it was?

IF it's how the locals present it, then I don't support giving benefits of the doubt either. If they really did take it upon themselves to target what turned out to be unarmed kids as pure targets of opportunity, I'd say another trial for war atrocities would be in order. They talk about hunting radio signals...and I'm not sure how that would work for equating that to specific people they see on a hillside. I'm just feeling like there is another side to this story we don't see.

I know it's a pipe dream but I would really like all this senseless killing to stop. Only when this starts happening to us and our families is when we will truly understand the error in our ways with these wars based on lies.

reply to post by Corruption Exposed


You got that right. Although I hope our country never experiences war on our soil, without that experience, we will still have a government and a portion of our population who will always be gung-ho for war. It's a false sense of security when you think just because you have the strongest military in the world, you can push your ideology and values onto another country and not worry about the consequences of your actions.

However, knowing some of our allies have already experienced war on their soil, they continue to follow our aggressive lead. I guess if man doesn't learn from history, we're destined to repeat it.