Islam: Peace or Violence?

This is a topic that interests me greatly.

I've read most of the Quran, and learned much of the history of the Prophet Muhammed, but some things started popping up in my mind that I couldn't answer because I couldn't find help anywhere.

Does Islam promote peace or violence?

The Quran doesn't make it decisively clear any more than the Old Testament does. Here we have an ancient book of the Hebrews which talks about God allowing slavery and genocide, sometimes enacting it by his own hand, which is followed by a New Testament that says God is forgiving and loves us so much that he gave his only begotten son as a blood atonement for our sins.

The Quran frequently mentions rather violent punishments, but so do some of the Christian books. Within Christianity, Christianity is considered a peaceful religion. Even Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus will say Christianity is a religion of peace.

So how is Christianity a religion of peace, but Islam is a religion of violence, when they both promote violence and yet turn around and promote non-violence?

First, it's stone the gays.

Then, it's turn the other cheek.

So what is it? Is Islam a religion of peace or violence? I would prefer non-biased answers. I am NOT seeking answers from embittered atheists with a chip on their shoulder, or Christians who think their proverbial waste doesn't stink, or progressive Muslims who sugar coat language in the Quran.

I want real, honest to God answers on Islam. Will I get them? I hope so. I'm tired of people telling me how Islam promotes violence, and yet I don't know and can only find bias no matter where I look.

Islam and the Bible are very similar and also lead to the same conclusion. They only difference is that we have an ancient teaching being used in Islam while the Bible is based off a more modern one. If Christians were forced to used the laws of the Old Testament, we would be no different to the modern day Islam. Another thing they do conflict on is the story about Jesus. Christians believe that he was pretty much god while islam see him as nothing more than a prophet. The reason being is that Muslims do not put anythin beside god, god is shapeless and therefore nothing can represent him/her what ever god is.

I think Islam is misunderstood and most of the informaion you will find about Islam is from Christian fundamentalists who will do anything in their power to demonise the Muslim faith. After a bit of study myself, I see nothing wrong with Islam if the Bible can be widely accepted with the same garbage among its pages.

For Christians, the New Testament is supposed to trump the Old Testament. Supposed too....but there are differences in interpretation, and many who pick and choose which verses should apply.

With Islam, and I am NOT speaking from experience, I think all the terrible stories we here aren't Islamic, as much as they are cultural. An example, I believe female circumsion is not condoned by the Koran, but some Islamics continue the practice because is part of their culture.

I want real, honest to God answers on Islam. Will I get them? I hope so. I'm tired of people telling me how Islam promotes violence, and yet I don't know and can only find bias no matter where I look.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Sounds like you already have your mind made up.
You won't get a confirmation that Islam is peaceful from me. Honestly, when did a Christian last stone someone for being gay as you say? I'm from Missouri, so show me. Jesus said: "Let he who is without sin throw the first stone."

When did a Christian last die for not converting to Islam? Probably today.
Egyptian Muslim Group Jihad al-Kufr Tells Copts to Convert or Die
www.answeringmuslims.com...

I suggest if you have an open mind watch some Walid Shoebat videos. He is an ex-Muslim PLO terrorist who converted to Christianity.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


When did they last stone someone for being gay? Dunno. News travels slow down south.

In the same book we have the ten commandments, which Christians profess to follow, and then proceed to throw most other Jewish law out the window. If they didn't, they wouldn't be eating shellfish and pork.

Modern Christianity, the brunt of Christianity, doesn't seem to follow the life and teachings of Jesus very well. If they did, there would be no "pro-family" groups shutting down gay marriage and sending threatening letters to sponsors of TV shows. They wouldn't be burning Qurans. They wouldn't have called for the nuclear annihilation of the Middle East after 9/11. They wouldn't be disowning children who convert to another religion or come out of the closet.

This is the face of Christianity. If it isn't the majority after all, then they seem to be rather complacent in allowing a bunch of nutjob, far right leaning tyrant-wannabes to speak for them. That and exorbitantly rich, fake teethed preachers with toupees and $1000 suits.

What is the difference between them and Islamic extremists? Extremist Christians are still forced into a box of law where they can't stone gays to death, otherwise they go to jail. If the tables turned and we were Muslim, and they were Christian, it would be the same exact deal.

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


Homosexuality is strictly against the teachings of Islam. Just because Christians will openly accept what is called a sin in their faith doesn't mean Muslims must follow suit. The only thing that shows is that your religion is compromised and has no credibility. Islam deals with numerous issues with stonings, hangings, lashes or what ever punishment they desire. The law doesn't just apply to homosexuals, it applies to all Muslims, Christians, Jews etc and for different crimes..

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

This is the face of Christianity. If it isn't the majority after all, then they seem to be rather complacent in allowing a bunch of nutjob, far right leaning tyrant-wannabes to speak for them..

Hmmmmm........same could be said of Muslims, letting a bunch of nutjob, far right leaning tyrant-wannabes to speak for them as well (unless you have some other description for those who wish to force Sharia law on everyone and who encourage suicide bombings). For someone who claims to seek the truth it seems like your opinion is already decided. How about this: There are tyrannical nutjobs in the majority of religions who want to rule the world and they are usually the loudest and most publicly obnoxious. Most people of all religions just want to live a good life and let others do the same. In Western civilizations these nutjobs are condoned because they have the right to freedom of speech. In Islamic civilizations it is condoned out of fear. Does that answer your question?

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Like I said, sounds like you already have your mind made up.
Hope you get whatever affirmation you need.

reply to post by littled16


That's what I mean. Christians do extreme things, Muslims do extreme things, it seems to depend mainly on the country their in and what sort of morality they hold, thus what kind of laws they have. Christian countries tend to look down on cutting off hands and killing non-Christians, Muslim countries don't seem to have much of a problem with that.

What I want to know is, are extremists fueled by their religion, or fueled by their religion that has been twisted by man? Is this something inherent within the Quran, or is it religion once again being corrupted and used as an excuse to do horrific things?

reply to post by sad_eyed_lady


I don't have my mind made up because I still don't have any bleeding idea if Islam is a religion that is inherently pro-violence.

The only thing I know is, both sides are saying their respective religion is a religion of peace, but only if you go by certain areas of their books. Other areas say violence and murder are okay in some circumstances. So are we seeing violence because of the Quran, or because people use the Quran as a convenient excuse?

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit

What I want to know is, are extremists fueled by their religion, or fueled by their religion that has been twisted by man? Is this something inherent within the Quran, or is it religion once again being corrupted and used as an excuse to do horrific things?

It is neither, and yet it is both. The problem with holy writings is that they are wide open to interpretation as the authors are long gone and cannot be questioned as to their intent. There are always those that will come along with their own wild interpretations of holy writings who have ego driven personalities. They twist these writings, picking and choosing which parts fit their interpretations best, and use their uncanny abilities of persuasion to convince others to follow their version of "the truth". Their main spiel is that their interpretation is the absolute true one and all other interpretations are wrong and "of the Devil". Given enough time and resources these egotists can be quite successful at building a following who will help spread the interpretation, and thus such extremist groups are built.

It is my opinion that when you get down to the nuts and bolts of it the issue isn't really religion at all but power, control and extreme egotism because this type of leader picks and twists the holy writings to serve their own vanities instead of serving God.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


It goes to deep to simply pick which is peaceful or not. This issue goes throuh the ages and both are guilty of violence and both have been peaceful. Unfortunetly, most Westerners don't see, let alone can understand the Muslims point of view and with that we tend to only look at ours.. What we see as violent, they may see as a last chance at survival, we don't know.. We need to put ourselves in their shoes to understand what they are thinking.

First, how we would feel if our country was occupied.

Second, how we would feel if that occupyin force killed our friends and family

Third, whether we would fight to the death to get our country back.

The list goes on.. Those three could be motivating violence on their own and we are too stupid to realise it.

reply to post by DarknStormy


But they're not just killing Americans soldiers. They're killing one another. If it should happen that a young girl falls in love with a boy of a different sect of Islam, she will be stoned to death. If a Muslim should choose to become a Jew, he will be beaten to death.

From everything I've seen, none of these extremist acts are based upon their religion. I've seen the writings of Muhammed, I've seen the teachings of Jesus. Although Muhammed led wars, everything I've seen him say (beyond the ideas of punishment) seems to indicate that he wanted people to love God, and love man, and have that guiding principle of "let sleeping dogs lie" and "do unto others what others would do unto you."

It makes me sad and angry to see Muslims do violence things to one another, and outlandish things against those who criticism their religion or draw Muhammed. But the opposite saddens and angers me too, people broadly sweeping all Muslims under the rug.

I don't want to get into too many details, but I knew a girl, a friend of mine, who is a Muslim and a wonderful person, who constantly condemned actions like that. But how many Muslims out there are like that? And how many, if not violence themselves, support (actively or passively by not saying anything) such violence?

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
reply to post by DarknStormy

 

But they're not just killing Americans soldiers. They're killing one another. If it should happen that a young girl falls in love with a boy of a different sect of Islam, she will be stoned to death. If a Muslim should choose to become a Jew, he will be beaten to death.

It shouldn't be the case because Judaism and Christianity are well recognised in Islam. I understand that certain countries may implement those punishments but with that, others are tolerant towards other faiths also.

From everything I've seen, none of these extremist acts are based upon their religion. I've seen the writings of Muhammed, I've seen the teachings of Jesus. Although Muhammed led wars, everything I've seen him say (beyond the ideas of punishment) seems to indicate that he wanted people to love God, and love man, and have that guiding principle of "let sleeping dogs lie" and "do unto others what others would do unto you."

I have said this in another thread and I may aswell say it again. Extremists are not practicing the true teachings of Islam. If they knew anything about the Koran, they would know that they are no longer representing Islam.. They are traitors to their religion just like say the Saudis for seeking assistance from the West. There is a part in the Koran which explains this..

It makes me sad and angry to see Muslims do violence things to one another, and outlandish things against those who criticism their religion or draw Muhammed. But the opposite saddens and angers me too, people broadly sweeping all Muslims under the rug.

A lot of the problems in the ME have been influenced by the West. In some cases we arm and support certain groups to kill their own people. We should be held accountable also.

I don't want to get into too many details, but I knew a girl, a friend of mine, who is a Muslim and a wonderful person, who constantly condemned actions like that. But how many Muslims out there are like that? And how many, if not violence themselves, support (actively or passively by not saying anything) such violence?

The Extremist part is only a minority of Muslims but if we keep interferring and causing issues, we will find that a lot more Muslims will continue to turn o those groups and fight.. We need to get out of their and let them sort their own problems out. Nothing we do can change anything over there.

The Qur'an is the literal word of God spoken to Muhammad which he wrote down word for word. According to the Qur'an there is no interpretation to be had. The Bible was written by men and that is the difference.

You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don’t are disbelievers and must face a painful doom. Qur’an 4:150-151

(O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, they are but friends of each other. And whoever befriends them, then surely, he is one of them.) [5:51].

Muslims wage war against Jews and Christians until they are subjugated (Qur'an 9:29)

If the unbelievers do offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. Qur’an 4:91

"O Prophet, wage jihad with the unbelievers and hypocrites and be thou harsh with them; their refuge is Hell and evil homecoming [9:73]."

It does not take an extremist to read word for word from Qur'an. Just as the words from the Bible were used to kill in the past, the words from the Qur'an are being used to kill now and will continue to do so in the future. Remember Islam is 600 years younger than Christianity. What were Christians like in 1413? As long as people read the Qur'an, people will kill because it tells them to.

One other difference between the Bible and Qur'an, the Qur'an is not only a religious tenet but also a economic system and a political system. That sets it apart from all other religious text.

reply to post by FollowTheWhiteRabbit


Islam is not a religion of peace by default, it will appear only as good as its followers, the Qur'an is very clear on how muslims should live and it will give peace but not by pleasing the secularists, its not ok in islam to do anything one wants till its illegal by secular law or till nobody is watching. Islam is anti-hedonistic and anti-materialistic beyond a certain limit/need of individual. Its anti-greed and anti-exploitation. All this causes a lot of friction with the present world view of the majority.
Just by the idea of islam being anti-interest, it appears rigid and violent to banks.
By being anti-gambling it makes a multi billion dollar sector feel threatened.
Individually people have become so freedom loving that the idea to compromise a part of their freedom for the sake of social justice and peace appears suffocating and so islam appears alien.
Is it better to have 100 rapes some ending in brutal murders or is it more acceptable to have 5 rapes and 5 public executions of the criminals making the possible future rapist shiver with horror and in effect making it more safe for women to walk freely on the streets.
The islamic laws are economical, they appear brutal but not just to punish but more to discourage future crimes.
So long as islamic ideals and world ideals clash, the one dominant will paint the other as wrong and harmful. Who is objectively wrong is apparent to each individual, yet not completely free from subjectivity depending on the side they feel they are.

reply to post by logical7


I agree with you. The punishment is meant to leave the next person thinking about the consequences if they even contemplate committing a crime. I do feel some of the punishments are harsh but I believe the overall system is more effective than the systems we have in the West as cruel as it may be in some cases.

reply to post by Carreau

One other difference between the Bible and Qur'an, the Qur'an is not only a religious tenet but also a economic system and a political system. That sets it apart from all other religious text.

In addition to spirituality and religion.... the Bible also contains several chapters pertaining to governance, economy, law and punishment etc. So the two are not very different.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
Does Islam promote peace or violence?.

It promotes slavery to outdated man made rules. Just look at the Middle East and Persia and you'll have your answer about if Islam is really 'the religion of peace' or not. Obviously people on earth would be better off without organized religion. Better off without thumping the bible or the quran.

Originally posted by DarknStormy
The law doesn't just apply to homosexuals, it applies to all Muslims, Christians, Jews etc and for different crimes..

Being homosexual isn't a crime.
That's like saying being born black is a crime.
It's neanderthal thinking.

Originally posted by Carreau
The Qur'an is the literal word of God spoken to Muhammad which he wrote down word for word. According to the Qur'an there is no interpretation to be had. The Bible was written by men and that is the difference.

SUPPOSEDLY. But in reality, both were written by men.

The difference is that the New Testament was written by men who were recording historical events in the life of Jesus and was written to provide spiritual guidance, but the Quran was written by men who were on a policial and military quest to take over a part of the world and to subjugate the people by using alleged 'visions' of Muhammad as an excuse. The archaic Old Testament is a mess of history and myth and legend and 'borrowed' texts from the ancient Egyptians and Summerians.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Being homosexual isn't a crime.
That's like saying being born black is a crime.
It's neanderthal thinking.

I'm sorry, Homosexuality is unacceptable in Iran and in their eyes it ceases pro-creation and with that they also do not believe that homosexuals are born homosexual. Instead of promoting homosexuality they teach their children why they shouldn't resort to those behaviors... Its not like saying being born black is a crime because firstly, homosexuals are not an ethnic group. 2nd, they were not born gay as much as people like you believe it.